What is stopping the current government from making abortion illegal in the USA?

HawgWyld

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Even if the Supreme Court would overturn the Roe decision it would not make abortion illegal. It would simply return regulation of abortion to the states. Some states might make it illegal, others would not.

Precisely why a lot of people would like to see "Roe v. Wade" overturned. Abortion would likely become a state issue -- a fact that would thrill the pro-life crowd and horrify pro-choice types.
 
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SnowyMacie

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What's stopping them is that you can't just overturn a Supreme Court ruling. There are only two ways overturn Supreme Court ruling. First, a constitutional amendment which requires the proposal to be passed by a 2/3 majority in both the House and Senate or a constitutional convention called by 2/3 of the states (never happened), then it must be passed 3/4 of the states' legislatures. Secondly, another Supreme Court ruling, which would require another Supreme Court case (the court just can't vote again on a previous decision). Congress can, and has, passed that laws that amend the rulings of the Supreme Court in order to expand on them, but they cannot just pass an Act that goes against a Supreme Court ruling.
 
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HawgWyld

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What's stopping them is that you can't just overturn a Supreme Court ruling. There are only two ways overturn Supreme Court ruling. First, a constitutional amendment which requires the proposal to be passed by a 2/3 majority in both the House and Senate or a constitutional convention called by 2/3 of the states (never happened), then it must be passed 3/4 of the states' legislatures. Secondly, another Supreme Court ruling, which would require another Supreme Court case (the court just can't vote again on a previous decision). Congress can, and has, passed that laws that amend the rulings of the Supreme Court in order to expand on them, but they cannot just pass an Act that goes against a Supreme Court ruling.

Indeed, and just wait -- should the Supreme Court get a clear pro-life majority, expect a state to pass a law limiting abortion. A lawsuit will result and the Supreme Court will get the chance to visit the issue again.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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If you believe that aborted foetuses are innocent souls, they are saved by default, right? Satan's primary objective is supposed to be keeping us from salvation, right? That would make every instance of abortion a loss for Satan.
So our saying since they go to heaven anyways, abortion is ok then? Murder is still murder even if the soul goes to heaven, we still have to answer to God for murder.

But if you are going by that logic of its ok to do because they go to heaven, so then technically if I have a child and I get tired of them, I could just kill them when they are like 4 right? Becuase they go to heaven and all right? >.>
 
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There is a specific clause in Roe v. Wade, established by the Supremes, that if it can be shown that life begins at conception, the case can be overturned. We have a few medical specialists who state that life begins at conception. The Church needs to round up all those who have come to that conclusion, medically and scientifically, then file the lawsuit.
I'm not familiar with any such clause in Roe, and I have read the decision several times. Do you have the citation to the page containing said clause?
 
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Widlast

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That makes zero theological sense, of course. If you believe that aborted foetuses are innocent souls, they are saved by default, right? Satan's primary objective is supposed to be keeping us from salvation, right? That would make every instance of abortion a loss for Satan.
Does it? Does the corruption of a culture not make perfect sense from Satan's point of view?
Your thinking is warped.
If he can damn the parents who cares if he misses a few kids.
Satan does not have "an objective", he just hates, as do all the damned
 
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SnowyMacie

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There is a specific clause in Roe v. Wade, established by the Supremes, that if it can be shown that life begins at conception, the case can be overturned. We have a few medical specialists who state that life begins at conception. The Church needs to round up all those who have come to that conclusion, medically and scientifically, then file the lawsuit.

I just searched the entire law and could not find such a clause. These are the closest I could find...

"Logically, of course, a legitimate state interest in this area need not stand or fall on acceptance of the belief that life begins at conception or at some other point prior to live birth. In assessing the State's interest, recognition may be given to the less rigid claim that as long as at least potential life is involved, the State may assert interests beyond the protection of the pregnant woman alone."

"We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer. It appears to be the predominant, though not the unanimous, attitude of the Jewish faith. It may be taken to represent also the position of a large segment of the Protestant community, insofar as that can be ascertained; organized groups that have taken a formal position on the abortion issue have generally regarded abortion as a matter for the conscience of the individual and her family. As we have noted, the common law found greater significance in quickening. Physicians and their scientific colleagues have regarded that event with less interest and have tended to focus either upon conception, upon live birth, or upon the interim point at which the fetus becomes "viable," that is, potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid. Viability is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks. The Aristotelian theory of "mediate animation," that held sway throughout the Middle Ages and the Renaissance in Europe, continued to be official Roman Catholic dogma until the 19th century, despite opposition to this "ensoulment" theory from those in the Church who would recognize the existence of life from the latter is now, of course, the official belief of the Catholic Church. As one brief amicus discloses, this is a view strongly held by many non-Catholics as well, and by many physicians. Substantial problems for precise definition of this view are posed, however, by new embryological data that purport to indicate that conception is a "process" over time, rather than an event, and by new medical techniques such as menstrual extraction, the "morning-after" pill, implantation of embryos, artificial insemination, and even artificial wombs"

"In areas other than criminal abortion, the law has been reluctant to endorse any theory that life, as we recognize it, begins before live birth or to accord legal rights to the unborn except in narrowly defined situations and except when the rights are contingent upon live birth. For example, the traditional rule of tort law denied recovery for prenatal injuries even though the child was born alive. That rule has been changed in almost every jurisdiction. In most States, recovery is said to be permitted only if the fetus was viable, or at least quick, when the injuries were sustained, though few. In a recent development, generally opposed by the commentators, some States permit the parents of a stillborn child to maintain an action for wrongful death because of prenatal injuries. Such an action, however, would appear to be one to vindicate the parents' interest and is thus consistent with the view that the fetus, at most, represents only the potentiality of life. Similarly, unborn children have been recognized as acquiring rights or interests by way of inheritance or other devolution of property, and have been represented by guardians ad litem. Perfection of the interests involved, again, has generally been contingent upon live birth. In short, the unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons in the whole sense."

"With respect to the State's important and legitimate interest in the health of the mother, the "compelling" point, in the light of present medical knowledge, is at approximately the end of the first trimester. This is so because of the now-established medical fact, referred to above, that until the end of the first trimester mortality in abortion may be less than mortality in normal childbirth. It follows that, from and after this point, a State may regulate the abortion procedure to the extent that the regulation reasonably relates to the preservation and protection of maternal health. Examples of permissible state regulation in this area are requirements as to the qualifications of the person who is to perform the abortion; as to the licensure of that person; as to the facility in which the procedure is to be performed, that is, whether it must be a hospital or may be a clinic or some other place of less-than-hospital status; as to the licensing of the facility; and the like.

This means, on the other hand, that, for the period of pregnancy prior to this "compelling" point, the attending physician, in consultation with his patient, is free to determine, without regulation by the State, that, in his medical judgment, the patient's pregnancy should be terminated. If that decision is reached, the judgment may be effectuated by an abortion free of interference by the State.

With respect to the State's important and legitimate interest in potential life, the "compelling" point is at viability. This is so because the fetus then presumably has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother's womb. State regulation protective of fetal life after viability thus has both logical and biological justifications. If the State is interested in protecting fetal life after viability, it may go so far as to proscribe abortion [410 U.S. 113, 164] during that period, except when it is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother."


So, Roe v Wade is really not even concerned with whether or not life begins, but more over when life is viable. A lawsuit against Roe v Wade that argues that life begins at conceptions is ultimately a moot point because you aren't really going against the findings of Roe v Wade, but just arguing your own opinion about when life begins. It's like being pulled over for speeding and arguing the light was green, you might be right, but that's not the issue at hand.
 
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chevyontheriver

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The Supreme Court has found that such a ban would be unconstitutional.
Oh, those same guys that found that Dred Scott was still a slave? That they can also find a penumbra inside of a lacuna (or is it a lacuna inside of a penumbra - I never can remember) to justify abortion is no great surprise. The surprise would be undoing such a dreadfully poorly constructed decision. I'm hoping with another justice or two it could happen. Kennedy and Ginzburg may retire soon.
 
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HawgWyld

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Oh, those same guys that found that Dred Scott was still a slave? That they can also find a penumbra inside of a lacuna (or is it a lacuna inside of a penumbra - I never can remember) to justify abortion is no great surprise. The surprise would be undoing such a dreadfully poorly constructed decision. I'm hoping with another justice or two it could happen. Kennedy and Ginzburg may retire soon.

Ginzburg may be shipped off to the Old Senile Judge's home soon. She's getting daffier by the year...
 
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chevyontheriver

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Ginzburg may be shipped off to the Old Senile Judge's home soon. She's getting daffier by the year...
And somehow I like her even though she is a liberal.
 
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Armoured

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Does it? Does the corruption of a culture not make perfect sense from Satan's point of view?
Your thinking is warped.
If he can damn the parents who cares if he misses a few kids.
Satan does not have "an objective", he just hates, as do all the damned
Uh-huh.
 
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Armoured

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There is a specific clause in Roe v. Wade, established by the Supremes, that if it can be shown that life begins at conception, the case can be overturned. We have a few medical specialists who state that life begins at conception. The Church needs to round up all those who have come to that conclusion, medically and scientifically, then file the lawsuit.
Sounds like a pro-lifer myth.
 
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Armoured

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So our saying since they go to heaven anyways, abortion is ok then? Murder is still murder even if the soul goes to heaven, we still have to answer to God for murder.

But if you are going by that logic of its ok to do because they go to heaven, so then technically if I have a child and I get tired of them, I could just kill them when they are like 4 right? Becuase they go to heaven and all right? >.>
Don't get mad at me for pointing out the logical implications of certain theological arguments.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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Don't get mad at me for pointing out the logical implications of certain theological arguments.
Well I believe its correct, babies and very young kids go to heaven (at least until the point at which they age they accept Jesus in their heart. But killing one just because they go to heaven is not permitted. Aside from murder being a sin, theres all kinds of verses about protecting children...etc. So no christian would k kill a baby just because they go to heaven.
 
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Armoured

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Well I believe its correct, babies and very young kids go to heaven (at least until the point at which they age they accept Jesus in their heart. But killing one just because they go to heaven is not permitted. Aside from murder being a sin, theres all kinds of verses about protecting chno one ildren...etc. So no christian would k kill a baby just because they go to heaven.
Did anyone say that?
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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It isn't illegal because america is the new Saddam and Gomorrah. The people would like to keep the powers in control so they allow people to kill babies because people are selfish like that. Even christians are more open to abortion now despite the bible saying "Do not murder." They don't want to have to "suffer" by having to raise a baby, so instead they make the baby suffer but killing it. I have zero respect for anyone who has an abortion and anyone who thinks its ok. Zero.

Thankfully with Trump in office and the supreme court being mainly on our side, we can over turn roe vs wade.


Hmm, now what I read. It says essentially we have the right to life, liberty and happiness. So pretty sure that covers babies too. What they should do if change it and to say "Life, liberty and happiness... unless your a baby, then your just a burden and don't deserve to live!". >.<
If Bush had overturned Roe v Wade when he had the majority in both houses, do you think we would have President Trump now?
 
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Winken

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I just searched the entire law and could not find such a clause. These are the closest I could find...

"Logically, of course, a legitimate state interest in this area need not stand or fall on acceptance of the belief that life begins at conception or at some other point prior to live birth. In assessing the State's interest, recognition may be given to the less rigid claim that as long as at least potential life is involved, the State may assert interests beyond the protection of the pregnant woman alone."

"We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer. It appears to be the predominant, though not the unanimous, attitude of the Jewish faith. It may be taken to represent also the position of a large segment of the Protestant community, insofar as that can be ascertained; organized groups that have taken a formal position on the abortion issue have generally regarded abortion as a matter for the conscience of the individual and her family. As we have noted, the common law found greater significance in quickening. Physicians and their scientific colleagues have regarded that event with less interest and have tended to focus either upon conception, upon live birth, or upon the interim point at which the fetus becomes "viable," that is, potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid. Viability is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks. The Aristotelian theory of "mediate animation," that held sway throughout the Middle Ages and the Renaissance in Europe, continued to be official Roman Catholic dogma until the 19th century, despite opposition to this "ensoulment" theory from those in the Church who would recognize the existence of life from the latter is now, of course, the official belief of the Catholic Church. As one brief amicus discloses, this is a view strongly held by many non-Catholics as well, and by many physicians. Substantial problems for precise definition of this view are posed, however, by new embryological data that purport to indicate that conception is a "process" over time, rather than an event, and by new medical techniques such as menstrual extraction, the "morning-after" pill, implantation of embryos, artificial insemination, and even artificial wombs"

"In areas other than criminal abortion, the law has been reluctant to endorse any theory that life, as we recognize it, begins before live birth or to accord legal rights to the unborn except in narrowly defined situations and except when the rights are contingent upon live birth. For example, the traditional rule of tort law denied recovery for prenatal injuries even though the child was born alive. That rule has been changed in almost every jurisdiction. In most States, recovery is said to be permitted only if the fetus was viable, or at least quick, when the injuries were sustained, though few. In a recent development, generally opposed by the commentators, some States permit the parents of a stillborn child to maintain an action for wrongful death because of prenatal injuries. Such an action, however, would appear to be one to vindicate the parents' interest and is thus consistent with the view that the fetus, at most, represents only the potentiality of life. Similarly, unborn children have been recognized as acquiring rights or interests by way of inheritance or other devolution of property, and have been represented by guardians ad litem. Perfection of the interests involved, again, has generally been contingent upon live birth. In short, the unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons in the whole sense."

"With respect to the State's important and legitimate interest in the health of the mother, the "compelling" point, in the light of present medical knowledge, is at approximately the end of the first trimester. This is so because of the now-established medical fact, referred to above, that until the end of the first trimester mortality in abortion may be less than mortality in normal childbirth. It follows that, from and after this point, a State may regulate the abortion procedure to the extent that the regulation reasonably relates to the preservation and protection of maternal health. Examples of permissible state regulation in this area are requirements as to the qualifications of the person who is to perform the abortion; as to the licensure of that person; as to the facility in which the procedure is to be performed, that is, whether it must be a hospital or may be a clinic or some other place of less-than-hospital status; as to the licensing of the facility; and the like.

This means, on the other hand, that, for the period of pregnancy prior to this "compelling" point, the attending physician, in consultation with his patient, is free to determine, without regulation by the State, that, in his medical judgment, the patient's pregnancy should be terminated. If that decision is reached, the judgment may be effectuated by an abortion free of interference by the State.

With respect to the State's important and legitimate interest in potential life, the "compelling" point is at viability. This is so because the fetus then presumably has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother's womb. State regulation protective of fetal life after viability thus has both logical and biological justifications. If the State is interested in protecting fetal life after viability, it may go so far as to proscribe abortion [410 U.S. 113, 164] during that period, except when it is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother."


So, Roe v Wade is really not even concerned with whether or not life begins, but more over when life is viable. A lawsuit against Roe v Wade that argues that life begins at conceptions is ultimately a moot point because you aren't really going against the findings of Roe v Wade, but just arguing your own opinion about when life begins. It's like being pulled over for speeding and arguing the light was green, you might be right, but that's not the issue at hand.
I quoted Justice Blackmun.
 
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I quoted Justice Blackmun.
Then please cite exactly where in the opinion Blackmun said this. I've read through the opinion and I cannot find any such clause.
 
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