What is so wrong with socialism?

[Albion]

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. This sentence tells me you know very little about the United Kingdom (UK) .

Well, it tells me something.

 

[The Stamp]

Well, it tells me something.

Unfortunately it tells you nothing, I wrote Oh My G-- but it wouldn't let me so I changed it to Oh My Gosh.

 

[super animator]

Oh My Gosh. The sentence you wrote tells me you know very little about the United Kingdom (UK) or the British and I suspect Europe in general, Brits live in the UK, the word is short for "British", Brexit was voted on by the British in the UK, the United Kingdom is the union of four countries, England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
If English is not your first language and you were educated elsewhere I apologise.

Brexit

 

[David Brider]

Well, I hate to get all pedantic, but... (That's a lie...)

Technically, the term Great Britain refers to the main island consisting of England, Wales and Scotland; whilst the United Kingdom refers to that plus Northern Ireland. (I've not checked, but I'd guess that Great Britain doesn't include the outlying islands such as the Shetlands, and the Isles of Wight and Mann). So "Brexit," despite the word being a portmanteau of "British Exit," actually refers to the whole of the UK, not just Britain.

At this rate, it'll be academic, what with another IndyRef looming in Scotland and Northern Ireland apparently considering reuniting with Eire.

Mind you, I think "UKer" is a silly word, and definitely not something anyone I know would use to describe themselves...

 

[super animator]

Well, I hate to get all pedantic, but... (That's a lie...)


At this rate, it'll be academic, what with another IndyRef looming in Scotland and Northern Ireland apparently considering reuniting with Eire.

Yea, I been reading about the talks about it, the question is are they actually going to do it?

 

[David Brider]

Yea, I been reading about the talks about it, the question is are they actually going to do it?

At this stage, who knows? Personally, I'm still hoping Brexit doesn't happen...

 

[David Brider]

Right. Which is to say, how a Socialist sees Capitalism.

No. Marxism and socialism are not the same thing. They're related, but not identical.

 

[David Brider]

Not exactly. If taxes are for the general good and are not confiscatory, they are a necessary part of governing. But to tax in a confiscatory manner and to do it in order to reduce the wealthy just because they are wealthy is another matter.

All taxes are confiscatory, so that's a meaningless distinction. And all taxes are for the general good. Even if you have, say, a form of social welfare, funded by taxation, that goes specifically to unemployed people, that a.) is for the general good (because at any given point in time any given person could be unemployed; and ensuring that unemployed people can afford three square meals a day, a roof over their head, and the resources to seek employment, is a good thing), and b.) it's not as if anyone can say, "my taxes fund this social welfare and I'm not happy with that," because it doesn't work directly. And I know of no form of taxation which is specifically enacted "in order to reduce the wealthy just because they are wealthy". That said, many forms of income tax operate on a sliding scale, but that's not "reducing the wealthy because they are wealthy," it's simply a case of fairness - higher earners can afford to pay more in tax, whereas lower earners can't.

 

[David Brider]

The UK and the Scandinavian countries have social democracy, not socialism.

Quite.

To be honest, I don't really think a fully socialist could really function successfully on a national level. And that's despite being, nominally at least, a socialist myself. Don't get me wrong, I think socialism is a great thing, but I think unless it's operating at a very small scale, in a situation where everyone is in full agreement with what the system is attempting to achieve, it's not going to work.

Mind you, I'd love to be proved wrong about that.

 

[The Stamp]

Yea, I been reading about the talks about it, the question is are they actually going to do it?

I don't understand what you mean by this because it's already been done, the UK is leaving the EU.

 

[SpeckOdust]

This is a question for my American cousins: what is so wrong with socialism? Is it true that Americans hate socialism or is this just what gets shown in the media?

As a Brit living in (what America would call a socialist country) the UK I'm very happy with this style of government.

Where's the beef, here?

This kind of thing is the PROBLEM:
As Millions Of Venezuelans Try To Flee The Country They Run Into A Problem

 

[Larniavc]

This kind of thing is the PROBLEM:
As Millions Of Venezuelans Try To Flee The Country They Run Into A Problem

I stopped reading at 'Inf'

 

[David Brider]

I don't understand what you mean by this because it's already been done, the UK is leaving the EU.

Not strictly true. May still has to invoke Article 50. And even if/when she does that, it's by no means certain that leaving will actually happen.

 

[Albion]

No. Marxism and socialism are not the same thing. They're related, but not identical.

Marxism is the foundation for all these varying forms of modern Socialism.

 

[Albion]

All taxes are confiscatory, so that's a meaningless distinction.

No, they're not. But so long as it's insisted that we look at the matter that way, we cannot make any progress in understanding the issue, can we?

 

[SpeckOdust]

I stopped reading at 'Inf'

The point is that Socialism has the Potential to make theSHTF for a Society,and when it does,it CAN become the Scenario now unfolding in Venezuela...It becomes Totalitarian,and that's Very-Bad! There is Nothing Good about Totalitarianism.

 

[Albion]

Prepare for the "Oh no. Socialism just wants you to have public schools" response.

 

[David Brider]

No, they're not. But so long as it's insisted that we look at the matter that way, we cannot make any progress in understanding the issue, can we?

Okay, help me out here - how are you defining "confiscatory" in such a way as you can use it to apply to some taxes but not others?

 

[David Brider]

The point is that Socialism has the Potential to make theSHTF for a Society,and when it does,it CAN become the Scenario now unfolding in Venezuela...It becomes Totalitarian,and that's Very-Bad! There is Nothing Good about Totalitarianism.

Yeah, but totalitarianism is bad because it's totalitarianism, not because it may have started out as socialism.

 

[Albion]

Okay, help me out here - how are you defining "confiscatory" in such a way as you can use it to apply to some taxes but not others?

I think I covered this earlier, but the word implies appropriation for the sake of appropriation, and even a penalty (for being able to afford it).

So if there is a 6% sales tax, it probably couldn't be considered confiscatory on any account. But if the government taxes anyone at, say, 60% of his earnings and it's not for the general good but, rather, in order to punish the wealthy for being wealthy and reward the poor simply because the government believes this to be justice, it's confiscatory.