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What is sin?

RaymondG

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So the question is quite simply: What is sin?

Sin is anything that you do, that is not done in Faith.

"And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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Don't argue with me, argue with this:

Matthew 6:33
33“But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Ant the next verse...
Matthew 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

To take thought is the same as eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil...which is what caused Adam's change of eyesight/perception, suddenly finding himself naked and ashamed. He ate the feast prepared by the woman (a picture of our soul being something separate/outside of self/being [Adam was one, alone, with God until being placed in a deep slumber and his side wounded to take out a woman] who was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh, the two shall become one.

The two seeds (or duality within Romans 7) can be seen in scripture as it relates to our soul's journey/process taking place within...the revealing of truth/light...(we being born not able to 'see'/perceive because of Adam's fall/eyesight change and as Jesus said " If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

(In light of) Romans 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.


Something/someone (not God) told Adam he was naked and he was suddenly ashamed. God asked him, "Where art thou?" "Who told you...?" And, "Hast thou eaten...?" Which has everything to do with our perception/where we are 'seeing' from as it relates to our soul and losing it to find it again in Christ...blinded by the Light...all else be darkness...

Anything not from faith is sin...Just as the woman in the garden desired more (perceived lack) and disobeyed and the command became a Law broken. The end of our faith takes us back to the beginning (Alpha and Omega, First and Last Adam) and Adam was one, declared good...a son (no gender implied) of God...eyesight restored (as Paul said we see dimly at first, then face to face the image in the glass...know as we have always been known...

Galatians 3:22 But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ, the promise might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
 
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dqhall

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Hi

Disclaimer 1: If this is in the wrong sub-forum I ask that it please be moved as appropriate, it was not my intention to cause anyone distress.

Disclaimer 2: Regardless of how you view this question the intent is not to cause duress but rather it's intent is merely for me to find some clearer answers to things I was wondering about (1 Pet 3:15)

Disclaimer 3: English is my second language.

So the question is quite simply: What is sin?

But some clarification perhaps is necessary.
It would be nice if the answer made sense in the biblical context, firstly new testament but hopefully in regards to all.

Let me expand a little bit more on this...

Perhaps you would argue that sin is not doing God's will. If this is so then how does one know what God's will or God's command is? Was this the same for all people in history?

Perhaps sin is simply what we earn upon birth as humans? Then why so much bothering in the bible with regards to what actions we take especially in the old testament prophets? Why give the 10 commandments therefore? Does this then mean we are all sinners regardless of what we did or will do, in effect rendering all actions by man irrelevant accept for this original sin?

Perhaps you would argue that sin in the most general terms is simply being immoral? I would be interested in how you argue this from the bible and not purely with philosophy. Also how can we ever really know what is moral then?

Another option I can think of is that sin is in your heart disbelieving or simply rebelling against God. Firstly does this mean God condemns the human for something as simple as a thought crime? Which in reality one might not even know he is committing?

Perhaps I'm way off base and sin is explained completely differently?

There are many following up ideas on this but I feel is a good place for me to start and try to understand my faith/religion better.

Thank you for your time in trying to answer my mad ravings. (I am not a theologian, just a person trying to understand things with more clarity)

Jesus advised what was lawful:

Matthew 19:16 (WEB) Behold, one came to him and said, "Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" 17 He said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." 18 He said to him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "'You shall not murder.' 'You shall not commit adultery.' 'You shall not steal.' 'You shall not offer false testimony.' 19 Honor your father and mother.' And, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Jesus also ignored parts of the law that made it illegal to work during the Sabbath:

Matthew 12:1 (WEB) At that time, Jesus went on the Sabbath day through the grain fields. His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 But the Pharisees, when they saw it, said to him, "Behold, your disciples do what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath."

There were interpretations of Levitical laws of what was clean and unclean that Jesus ignored as well:

Mark 7:8 (WEB) "For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men--the washing of pitchers and cups, and you do many other such things."

A sin is an offense or trespass. The law of Moses was not totally right, nor totally wrong. In Acts, Peter was advised by the Holy Spirit that he should disregard the dietary laws of Moses and go visit the household of a Gentile Centurion (Acts 10:9-16). Jesus was against adultery and lust. Inappropriate touching and lewd speech is lustful. Jesus was against murder and anger (Matthew 5 - Sermon on the Mount). One who was angry threatened violence.
 
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Charlie24

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The apostle James said that he who knows to do good and doesn't do it, to him it is sin.
James 4:17

Not only is sin something we do knowing not to do it, it is something we don't do when we know to do it.

That tells me sin is on the level of the individual. What may be sin for me, may not be sin for you.

Whether we sin by doing or sin by not doing, all sin is an offense against God.
 
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Colter

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Hi

Disclaimer 1: If this is in the wrong sub-forum I ask that it please be moved as appropriate, it was not my intention to cause anyone distress.

Disclaimer 2: Regardless of how you view this question the intent is not to cause duress but rather it's intent is merely for me to find some clearer answers to things I was wondering about (1 Pet 3:15)

Disclaimer 3: English is my second language.

So the question is quite simply: What is sin?

But some clarification perhaps is necessary.
It would be nice if the answer made sense in the biblical context, firstly new testament but hopefully in regards to all.

Let me expand a little bit more on this...

Perhaps you would argue that sin is not doing God's will. If this is so then how does one know what God's will or God's command is? Was this the same for all people in history?

Perhaps sin is simply what we earn upon birth as humans? Then why so much bothering in the bible with regards to what actions we take especially in the old testament prophets? Why give the 10 commandments therefore? Does this then mean we are all sinners regardless of what we did or will do, in effect rendering all actions by man irrelevant accept for this original sin?

Perhaps you would argue that sin in the most general terms is simply being immoral? I would be interested in how you argue this from the bible and not purely with philosophy. Also how can we ever really know what is moral then?

Another option I can think of is that sin is in your heart disbelieving or simply rebelling against God. Firstly does this mean God condemns the human for something as simple as a thought crime? Which in reality one might not even know he is committing?

Perhaps I'm way off base and sin is explained completely differently?

There are many following up ideas on this but I feel is a good place for me to start and try to understand my faith/religion better.

Thank you for your time in trying to answer my mad ravings. (I am not a theologian, just a person trying to understand things with more clarity)
Sin is deliberate disloyalty to deity.
 
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Deadworm

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A proper understanding of the sin condition must focus on the need for Jesus' humanity to learn by trial and error and the sense in which His sinlessness can emerge unscathed from this maturation process.

(1) The 12 Jesus is unquestionably guilty of misconduct during His trip to Jerusalem for Passover (Luke 2:41-52). After Passover, Jesus' family entourage is making the long journey back to Nazareth when young Jesus slips away and goes AWOL without telling His parents! Mary rightly scolds young Jesus for His inconsiderate act:

"His mother said to Him: "why have you treated us in this way? Look, your father and I have been searching for you with great anxiety (2:48)!"

Joseph and Mary have been worried sick as they were forced to embark on a 3-day search to track Him down. They're obviously worried that their son has fallen prey to foul play. Jesus' response to Mary's rebuke seems insolent: "Don't you know I must be in my Father's house?" Jesus should have alerted His parents about where He was going. No doubt, Joseph and Mary, like any parents, had warned the young Jesus to stay with the family group, so that they could know where He was and vouch for His safety. This obvious inference prompts Luke to observe that after this Jesus "was obedient" to His parents and "grew in wisdom...and favor with God (2:51-52)." Luke's observation rightly implies a prior period in which Jesus was less obedient, less wise, and less in favor with God!


(2) Jesus' need to learn by trial and error continues into His adulthood:
"Son though He was, He learned obedience through the things He suffered (Hebrews 5:8)." This seems to imply that the adult Jesus had at times been disobedient. No wonder Jesus felt the need for John's baptism of repentance (Mark 1:4). Neither John's protest nor Jesus' insistence that He must be baptized "to fulfill all righteousness (Matthew 3:14-15)" removes the implication that He too felt the need to repent.

(2) How then can Jesus status as our sinless sacrifice be affirmed? By distinguishing the condition of sin from a maturation process of learning by trial and error. This insight helps to explain the claim in Hebrews 4:15 that Jesus "was tested on all points, just as we are, yet without sin." The core meaning of "sin" is to miss the mark and thus be in a condition of separation from God: "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear (Isaiah 59:2)." But nothing that Jesus did in His maturation process separated Him from God: "The Father and I are one (John 10:30)." His maturation process and oneness with God allows Jesus to arrive at the cross in a state of spiritual perfection (Hebrews 5:9)."
 
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fhansen

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Hi

Disclaimer 1: If this is in the wrong sub-forum I ask that it please be moved as appropriate, it was not my intention to cause anyone distress.

Disclaimer 2: Regardless of how you view this question the intent is not to cause duress but rather it's intent is merely for me to find some clearer answers to things I was wondering about (1 Pet 3:15)

Disclaimer 3: English is my second language.

So the question is quite simply: What is sin?

But some clarification perhaps is necessary.
It would be nice if the answer made sense in the biblical context, firstly new testament but hopefully in regards to all.

Let me expand a little bit more on this...

Perhaps you would argue that sin is not doing God's will. If this is so then how does one know what God's will or God's command is? Was this the same for all people in history?

Perhaps sin is simply what we earn upon birth as humans? Then why so much bothering in the bible with regards to what actions we take especially in the old testament prophets? Why give the 10 commandments therefore? Does this then mean we are all sinners regardless of what we did or will do, in effect rendering all actions by man irrelevant accept for this original sin?

Perhaps you would argue that sin in the most general terms is simply being immoral? I would be interested in how you argue this from the bible and not purely with philosophy. Also how can we ever really know what is moral then?

Another option I can think of is that sin is in your heart disbelieving or simply rebelling against God. Firstly does this mean God condemns the human for something as simple as a thought crime? Which in reality one might not even know he is committing?

Perhaps I'm way off base and sin is explained completely differently?

There are many following up ideas on this but I feel is a good place for me to start and try to understand my faith/religion better.

Thank you for your time in trying to answer my mad ravings. (I am not a theologian, just a person trying to understand things with more clarity)
Sin is an anomaly of nature; an act opposed to the will of God, and therefore opposed to our own God-given natures. It's always opposed to love of God and neighbor in some manner or another. To the extent that the act is free, deliberate, and with full knowledge, we are culpable for it. God did not create man to sin, and the fact that we do sin nevertheless is only proof that the doctrine of Original Sin is correct, because it teaches that all sin, or moral evil, is a result of man's being spiritually disconnected or out of communion with God, 'apart from Whom we can do nothing' to paraphrase John 15:5. To the extent that we are united with Him in a bond of love with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, sin is precluded-our justice is complete. This is a tall order, not necessarily to be fully realized until the next life...but, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible" Matt 19:26.

Man was made for communion with God. We're born lost, outside of this communion. But we cannot possibly maintain moral integrity without it.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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When we support a view, it must be coherent, make sense, and it must be comprehensive, should apply in all situations.


Claiming that we should work for earthly treasure goes against so many teachings, but its supporters say that those who do not try to work for earthly gains are going against the teaching that looking after their family is Scripturally correct:

1 Timothy 5:8
8Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

And against the teachings that whoever does not work should not eat:

2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.

I could just quote Bible verses that teach prioritising the gathering of God's children, and in fact, I did.

But it's the right thing to do to give the comprehensive explanation too, so here it is.

Let's explain what happened to those who counted the cost and received baptism.

Peter accused those who loved the world as belonging to an adulterous generation . Instead of being with God, their proper partner, they formed relationships with the world. Those who agreed with Peter were baptised, and broke of relationship with the world (they agreed that those who depended on for perishable needs even though the world was unreliable were foolish), and promised to return to God.

God gives proof of his ability and willingness to lead them into rest, proper living, being a blessing to the world, as Adam had been. In time, when enough proof had been given of God's faithfulness, God called us, to fully commit ourself to being that blessing, by manifesting His role in our lives in a highly visible way. Rahab was blessed when Joshua allowed God to use him to exhibit His power.

Was Abraham given proof of God's ability to bless? Yes. Was he afraid? Yes. Did he overcome his fear after seeing God's power? Yes. So God's power delivered Abraham out of the world into rest.

Was Moses given proof of God's power? Yes. Did he overcome his fear of risking his safety by placing it in God's hands? Yes. Did he hear God's voice? No. Did he act? Yes. Was God with him? No. Was he successful in being a blessing? No. The lesson is not to act when God is not with you or called you.

Did God call Moses later? Yes. Did Moses ask God to show Israel the same proofs he showed Moses? He did. Was Israel convinced by the proof? Yes.

Did God give Jesus proof of His power? Yes he did. Did God call Jesus out of Egypt? Yes. Did God give Jesus proofs to show Israel? Yes. Was Israel convinced to abandon the world and follow God? No they were not.

But it was not God's fault, just as it was not God's fault when Israel did not enter rest.

When people joined the disciples in Jerusalem in following God, God provided them proof of His ability and power to give them rest. However it still required them to respond, to show God they had faith in Him. Those who thought they could finish the house, had the means to complete the task, changed their lives, aligned it with what they had decided, and God then led them into rest, the ability to be blessings to the world.

The first part of the last sentence is very important.

The Bible describes what that response looks like :

The believer abandoned all dependency on the world.

The believer who did not have the confidence that he had the resources to compete the house asked for more time to repent.

The believer who was not confident of his ability to meet the challenge asked for terms of peace from the challenge, personified as a king of an opposing army.

The believer delayed whole hearted surrender to the challenge by making friends of those in the kingdom with unrighteous Mammon so that they would welcome him into eternal dwellings ( the ability to be blessings) when his worldly resources ran out.

So when the believer joined the disciples, he could lay down his resources at Peter’s feet or he could donate his regular earnings to the group.

The group used the money to support those who had fully committed their work to God.

Those who were fully committed had to do this work (manifest God's power) in order to continue to receive support. If they did not work they were not to receive support.

What happened to the family of those who were serving God in any one of the above ways? If the believer had extra resources, he had to support his family. Else the group had to do it.
Nowhere in the book of Acts does it say that anyone laid their total earnings at the Apostles' feet. Barnabas sold a piece of land and laid the proceeds there, and Ananias and Saphira paid the price of lying to the Holy Spirit about what they contributed. The reason for the appointment of deacons was for the support of widows who had no means to earn an income.

It sounds to me that you are advocating that everyone who is a believer should leave their jobs and work for the Lord, and somehow the Lord will support them financially. Is that what you are doing?

The Jewish economy in the first century was largely agricultural, and most earned an income by farming or fishing. The Temple workers were supported by tithes from those who earned their income.

It is interesting that Jesus earned His income by being a carpenter until He started His ministry. After that, he was supported by a group of wealthy friends and supporters. Peter and John may have left their fishing business to follow the Lord, but there were two miracles of such a large catch, that the proceeds of it would have supported them financially for a very long time.

Paul was a tent maker by trade, and he preferred to work and earn his own income instead of receiving support from the churches. There were also believers in Caesar's court. They would not have worked there for nothing.

I know that God always finances His will. When I was a mature student in my 30s, in my second year I got down to my last $100. I asked the Lord for help. What He did was to get me a part time job to see me through the rest of my studies. He didn't drop money out of the air, nor did He provide a benefactor. He gave me opportunities for employment so I could earn a living while I studied.

I have heard of people going into full time service, believing that the Lord will provide for them. When they failed through lack of finances, their family going hungry and clothes falling off their backs, they had to go and find a job to keep their family fed. I believe that it was their own desire to go full time and not the Lord's desire for them, otherwise He would have provided for them. I think that the motivation for going full time for the Lord is that they are bored with the routine of their jobs, and want more spice and adventure in their lives. So they read a few books about successful full time ministries and try to copy them - and fail miserably.

Most people I know who went successfully into full time ministry are those whose ministries became so successful that they had to give up work to continue, and the financial support was there from those who were benefiting from the ministry and were only too happy to contribute. In many cases, it was a difficult decision to give up their jobs because they would have been quite happy doing either. Some, when the ministry dried up and came to a logical end, they just went back to work quite happily.

We don't know how the other Apostles supported themselves while spreading the gospel. We know that Luke was a doctor and would not have stopped "doctoring", earning his own living while travelling with Paul. We are not told how Peter was being supported, or any of the other Apostles.

Also, the Early Church was quite different than our modern churches. Then they had all things in common and those who had plenty made sure that those in need were supported. This is not like our modern churches which are split up into denominations and most of the money contributed is there just to support the church organisation and little else.
 
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Soyeong

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Thank you for your very thorough and quite in detail reply! Especially thank you for giving so many bible references to clarify your point of view.

You're welcome. :)

Am I correct in understanding that as referring to the law in this we are talking about the way Jesus represented it as the first 2 commandments (love the lord your god...) and we are therefore not including all the other laws given in the Torah? (I mean things like how to wash and offering and cleanliness etc.)

I should be clear that I think that Christians are required to obey the Torah, but I am not in agreement with mainstream Christianity on this point. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Law as being about how to love God and our neighbor. All of the 613 commands in the OT and 1,050 commands in the NT can be put into those categories, so the two greatest commands are the greatest because all of the other commands are examples of how to correctly obey them. The command to love the Lord our God with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength is a lot easier said than done, so thankful we have all of these other commands and Christ's example of obedience to these commands to paint us a picture of what that looks like.

If I take the following statements from you: (I might be wrong in any of them sorry)
1. We know sin by the law given in the Bible/Torah
2. Until we are made aware of this law/sin we are not accountable

I might be understanding something wrong, but aren't there things in the bible that also indicate that God has placed somehow also given man a consciousness and therefore can sin even before the law/gospel is revealed to him?

In Romans 5:13, Paul said that sin was in the world before the Law was was not charged to anyone's account where there is no Law. In Romans 2:14-15, Paul said for when Gentiles, who were not given the Law, by nature do what the Law requires, they are showing that the Law is written on their hearts and that their conscience bears witness to this.
 
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Jonathan Leo

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Hi

Disclaimer 1: If this is in the wrong sub-forum I ask that it please be moved as appropriate, it was not my intention to cause anyone distress.

Disclaimer 2: Regardless of how you view this question the intent is not to cause duress but rather it's intent is merely for me to find some clearer answers to things I was wondering about (1 Pet 3:15)

Disclaimer 3: English is my second language.

So the question is quite simply: What is sin?

But some clarification perhaps is necessary.
It would be nice if the answer made sense in the biblical context, firstly new testament but hopefully in regards to all.

Let me expand a little bit more on this...

Perhaps you would argue that sin is not doing God's will. If this is so then how does one know what God's will or God's command is? Was this the same for all people in history?

Perhaps sin is simply what we earn upon birth as humans? Then why so much bothering in the bible with regards to what actions we take especially in the old testament prophets? Why give the 10 commandments therefore? Does this then mean we are all sinners regardless of what we did or will do, in effect rendering all actions by man irrelevant accept for this original sin?

Perhaps you would argue that sin in the most general terms is simply being immoral? I would be interested in how you argue this from the bible and not purely with philosophy. Also how can we ever really know what is moral then?

Another option I can think of is that sin is in your heart disbelieving or simply rebelling against God. Firstly does this mean God condemns the human for something as simple as a thought crime? Which in reality one might not even know he is committing?

Perhaps I'm way off base and sin is explained completely differently?

There are many following up ideas on this but I feel is a good place for me to start and try to understand my faith/religion better.

Thank you for your time in trying to answer my mad ravings. (I am not a theologian, just a person trying to understand things with more clarity)
In a nut shell, anything outside of Gods will for us, and also, knowing to do something is right and not doing it.
We will be judged for the stuff we done and equally judged for what we didn’t.
Take Matthew 25:14-30 for instance
 
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...
So the question is quite simply: What is sin?
...

I have understood that sin is to reject God, or to live without God. Reason why I think so is this:

Little children, let no one lead you astray. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

Righteousness is the opposite of sin and righteous person is faithful (loyal) to God.

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

Righteous person doesn’t reject God, even if he has done mistakes, like in this example:

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:10-14

Righteous remains in God’s words and don’t reject Him. But sinner rejects God and don’t remain in God’s words.
 
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Lily of Valleys

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You are "missing the mark" about God's Law or are not quite right.

ROMANS.7: = 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

ROMANS.6: = 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

There is God's Law or Moses Law and there is Roman Law, US Law, English Law, Sharia Law, etc.

Christians are to “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” (MATTHEW.22:21) Caesar can mean the government of the day.
... IOW, US Christians are to obey US Law unless US Law jeopardizes their salvation, eg when the US government enacts a penal law to require every citizen to receive the "mark of the beast"(computer chip implants.?). So, US Christians should pay taxes to their government/Caesar and tithe(= about 2%) to God. US Christians, eg business-persons, should not discriminate against homosexuals or other LGBTQs, as per US Law(let God deal with them).

As per ACTS.15:24-29, Gentile Christians are required by God to only keep the non-burdensome parts of Moses Law, especially laws on morality, eg the Ten Commandments(EXODUS.20).
... In comparison, Jewish Christians have to keep as many laws of Moses as possible.
In this way, both will be blessed by God on earth and in the hereafter(= saved from hell when they die).
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P S - During the time of Jesus Christ, under Roman Law, adultery, homosexuality/sodomy, incest, prostitution, idolatry and blasphemy were not crimes, but were sins/crimes under Moses Law.
... Today, under US Law, similarly, adultery, homosexuality/sodomy, idolatry and blasphemy are not crimes, but are still sins/crimes under God's Law.
I don't understand how your response has anything to do with what I said.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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God gave us the ten commandments.
He even wrote it in stone.
Hi Stormy haven't seen you for ages. Is your son still posting here? Sorry can't remember his name :blush:
Written in stone, written on hearts of flesh. One covenant is outward and the other inward. Summarizing the law and the prophets.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Nowhere in the book of Acts does it say that anyone laid their total earnings at the Apostles' feet. Barnabas sold a piece of land and laid the proceeds there, and Ananias and Saphira paid the price of lying to the Holy Spirit about what they contributed. The reason for the appointment of deacons was for the support of widows who had no means to earn an income.

Repentance is to change mind, meta noia. Change it from thinking life is about serving gods made with human hands for perishable gains to serving our creator for imperishable gains. Why would Ananias have been rebuked when he had lied about being half hearted about his abandonment of mammon if it was not wrong to retain part of his earnings? Believers who surrendered everything were full time workers for God. They were supported and when there was a ministry opportunity, they were anointed. Deacons administered the funds for support of widows. Those who had extra funds coming in after becoming workers for God were encouraged to support widows belonging to their own family.
It sounds to me that you are advocating that everyone who is a believer should leave their jobs and work for the Lord, and somehow the Lord will support them financially. Is that what you are doing?

I'm saying that when you ask God to give you signs and wonders to help you bring others out of Egypt, you should have been called out of Egypt yourself. Next time your pastor asks you to share the gospel, ask him why people should believe you and leave Egypt, serving themselves to serving others, which is what God wants, and created man for, to bless the world.
The Jewish economy in the first century was largely agricultural, and most earned an income by farming or fishing. The Temple workers were supported by tithes from those who earned their income.

It is interesting that Jesus earned His income by being a carpenter until He started His ministry. After that, he was supported by a group of wealthy friends and supporters. Peter and John may have left their fishing business to follow the Lord, but there were two miracles of such a large catch, that the proceeds of it would have supported them financially for a very long time.

Paul was a tent maker by trade, and he preferred to work and earn his own income instead of receiving support from the churches. There were also believers in Caesar's court. They would not have worked there for nothing.

I know that God always finances His will. When I was a mature student in my 30s, in my second year I got down to my last $100. I asked the Lord for help. What He did was to get me a part time job to see me through the rest of my studies. He didn't drop money out of the air, nor did He provide a benefactor. He gave me opportunities for employment so I could earn a living while I studied.

Interesting,nevertheless, God called all these people out of Egypt. Including Jesus.
I have heard of people going into full time service, believing that the Lord will provide for them. When they failed through lack of finances, their family going hungry and clothes falling off their backs, they had to go and find a job to keep their family fed. I believe that it was their own desire to go full time and not the Lord's desire for them, otherwise He would have provided for them. I think that the motivation for going full time for the Lord is that they are bored with the routine of their jobs, and want more spice and adventure in their lives. So they read a few books about successful full time ministries and try to copy them - and fail miserably.

Most people I know who went successfully into full time ministry are those whose ministries became so successful that they had to give up work to continue, and the financial support was there from those who were benefiting from the ministry and were only too happy to contribute. In many cases, it was a difficult decision to give up their jobs because they would have been quite happy doing either. Some, when the ministry dried up and came to a logical end, they just went back to work quite happily.

We don't know how the other Apostles supported themselves while spreading the gospel. We know that Luke was a doctor and would not have stopped "doctoring", earning his own living while travelling with Paul. We are not told how Peter was being supported, or any of the other Apostles.

Also, the Early Church was quite different than our modern churches. Then they had all things in common and those who had plenty made sure that those in need were supported. This is not like our modern churches which are split up into denominations and most of the money contributed is there just to support the church organisation and little else.

I'm not surprised people failed. Israel was defeated by her enemies when they went to battle without being called. Moses failed to bring Israel out of Egypt because God was not with him which was what is different because if God had called He would have been with Moses and Moses would not have had to kill the Egyptian. People are saved because they see God is with the person who is calling them to leave Egypt. Rahab switched loyalty to God because Joshua only won when God helped as seen by his dependency on the raised arms of Moses. That is the Way.

The early church was getting into a rut, pretty quickly. That is why God had to create a crisis in the form of protests from the Greek converts. It's amusing that what Peter was doing, preaching, was not getting results, but what Stephen was doing, serving tables, was. Preaching isn't going to get people to come out of Egypt. The presence of God's kingdom being felt amongst the listeners is what is required. And that is what happens when God calls. After you drink from the Rock, Christ. Who did not murmur when he left serving Egypt and was tested when all that Egypt provided was held back from him. But con-fessed, agreed, that bread that perished was not to be worked for. Those who so agree are given the kingdom, and all other things are added on to them as well.

Modern Christianity, as you noticed, is a totally different animal. Time changes things. That's why you need to ask for bread, revelation of the original meaning, every day.
 
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Andy centek

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Hi

Disclaimer 1: If this is in the wrong sub-forum I ask that it please be moved as appropriate, it was not my intention to cause anyone distress.

Disclaimer 2: Regardless of how you view this question the intent is not to cause duress but rather it's intent is merely for me to find some clearer answers to things I was wondering about (1 Pet 3:15)

Disclaimer 3: English is my second language.

So the question is quite simply: What is sin?

But some clarification perhaps is necessary.
It would be nice if the answer made sense in the biblical context, firstly new testament but hopefully in regards to all.

Let me expand a little bit more on this...

Perhaps you would argue that sin is not doing God's will. If this is so then how does one know what God's will or God's command is? Was this the same for all people in history?

Perhaps sin is simply what we earn upon birth as humans? Then why so much bothering in the bible with regards to what actions we take especially in the old testament prophets? Why give the 10 commandments therefore? Does this then mean we are all sinners regardless of what we did or will do, in effect rendering all actions by man irrelevant accept for this original sin?

Perhaps you would argue that sin in the most general terms is simply being immoral? I would be interested in how you argue this from the bible and not purely with philosophy. Also how can we ever really know what is moral then?

Another option I can think of is that sin is in your heart disbelieving or simply rebelling against God. Firstly does this mean God condemns the human for something as simple as a thought crime? Which in reality one might not even know he is committing?

Perhaps I'm way off base and sin is explained completely differently?

There are many following up ideas on this but I feel is a good place for me to start and try to understand my faith/religion better.

Thank you for your time in trying to answer my mad ravings. (I am not a theologian, just a person trying to understand things with more clarity)
 
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