So holiness just happens like magic? Just sit back and God will pour holiness on those who continue in sin and evil works. The beliefs in the church today are unbelievable.
Sin is what unholy people do. Therefore, if a person is to be made holy, then holiness is not something to be gained by not sinning. I am honestly surprised that what I said would be all that controversial. Sanctification comes from God's movement in a person's life, not by the person's own good works or merits. Is that last sentence something that you disagree with, or am I misunderstanding.
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
Strong's has this for pursue -
- to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after
- to press on: figuratively of one who in a race runs swiftly to reach the goal
- to pursue (in a hostile manner)
- in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one
- to persecute
- to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something
- without the idea of hostility, to run after, follow after: someone
- metaph., to pursue
- to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire
Holiness does not come automatically for believers, nor is it an inevitable outcome. We must seek eagerly and earnestly endeavor to acquire it. We must run swiftly to catch it.
So, am I to understand that you believe that a person can have faith and not grow in holiness as a result? I would say that holiness is pursued by faith, not by works. But, before we get there, I think we need to establish what faith is. Faith is not merely believing, as in the same way that I believe that 2+2=4. Nor is it merely believing something that you cannot prove or observe, such as the way my children once believed in Santa Claus. Faith is conviction and steadfast belief that spurs a person to action. So, when Paul says that we are saved by grace though faith, not by works, he is not saying that works have no part in the equation. He is emphasizing that faith (which leads to leads to works) is what matters, not the works themselves. Compare this with James, who says that faith without works is dead, in which the emphasis is on the fact that works are the result of genuine faith. Though Paul and James place different emphases, their message is the same: We are not saved by doing good things, but by faith. Faith, in turn, leads to doing good things.
The point is that I agree with you that we are to pursue holiness. Where I think we disagree (but perhaps, I am misunderstanding you) is that I believe that we are to pursue holiness by faith. By faith, God sanctifies us and enables us to do good works. Our doing good works, in and of itself, accomplishes nothing.
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Romans 6:24
and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
You must put on the new man, that is, cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, and not just sit back and hope God puts on the new man.
BTW, the second passage you cite is actually Ephesians 4:24. But, the point is that out disagreement lies in the way in which this is done. If we live by faith, God will sanctify us. If we do not live by faith, then we can never do enough good. Salvation, the entire process, justification, sanctification, and glorification is all the work of God by grace, through faith. Faith is not just "sit[ting] back and hop[ing] God puts on the new man." It is a radical shift in our attitudes and thoughts that allows God to put on the new man.
Romans 6:19
I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
You will never attain holiness without presenting or yielding your members as slaves of righteousness. And yes, you have your followers who do not believe living in sin will destroy you. They have no shame of living the same way they did while unsaved.
Romans 6
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
The contrast in Romans 6 between slaves to sin and slaves to righteousness illustrates what I am talking about. A slave has no choice in the process. If holiness is something that we bring to ourselves, through our good works, then we are not slaves to righteousness, but rather people choosing to live righteously. To be a slave means that we don't have the right to decide for ourselves. Paul is suggesting that, no matter what, we are slaves. If we live by the flesh, then we are slaves to the flesh, and the flesh decides for us (which is why sin and addiction go hand in hand); if we live by faith, then we have chosen to let God master us.
Romans 6:22 exemplifies this, so I am glad you posted. I don't know what translation you used, but I like that it uses the word "fruit" to describe the origin of holiness. Two interesting things about fruit: (1) Fruit describes an inevitable outcome or result. An healthy orange tree will inevitably bear oranges. An olive tree, olives, and so one. Or, as Jesus said, a good tree bears good fruit and a bad tree bears bad fruit. An orange tree cannot decide that it would prefer to grow olives, and bad tree cannot decide that it would prefer to grow good fruit. So, the point here is that holiness is the fruit (the inevitable outcome) of being a slave to righteousness (i.e., living by faith). (2) The other thing about fruit is that it exists to create more fruit trees/plants/vines. So, when we see holiness come as the fruit of our faith, this plants seeds allowing others to live by faith and become slaves to righteousness.
Yes, I see it everywhere on this forum. Many are not ashamed of the fruit they bore when they were slaves sin; they still eat of the same fruit. There is nothing new in them, the old man still has its grip on them. They gladly serve the old man, not willing to put the old man off. Yet Paul says the fruit of the old man is death. They had rather walk the path which leads to destruction than to strive to enter the narrow gate, wherein is eternal life.
If this indeed is how a person is living, and if that person is not growing in holiness, then that person, by definition, does not have faith.
I would also like to add this from David -
Psalm 36
1 An oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked: there is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For he flatters himself in his own eyes, when he finds out his iniquity and when he hates.
3 The words of his mouth are wickedness and deceit; he has ceased to be wise and to do good.
Those who continue to live in sin and think it is okay with God, have no fear of God in their eyes. They flatter themselves thinking they can live in iniquity before God. They have ceased to be wise and do good. Doing good to them in not required by God.
I am not suggesting that we should live in sin and think it is okay with God. I am saying that we should live in faith, allowing God to make us holy.
My concern with what you are expressing here is twofold:
First, it sets immature believers up for failure. Too many Christians believe "if only I stop doing x, and start doing y, then I'll be a good person and live in God's favor." The problem is that we are slaves; we do not have the ability to choose to stop sinning or start doing good works. We do have the ability to choose to surrender to God, and God has the power to overcome our flesh. If we, through our own efforts, attempt to overcome our own sinful nature, we will eventually fail 100% of the time. So, when we tell an immature believer, "you just need work hard to try to stop . . ." or "you just need to work hard to try to start . . . ", we are literally telling them to do something that, if they have not yet come to faith, is literally impossible. And, by doing this, we make it harder for that person to come to faith. OTOH, if that person has come to faith, action steps may be helpful, but it is the faith and not the action steps that brings about the change. And, since the faithful Christian is a slave to righteousness, the change is inevitable.
Second, it makes God small and impotent and us big and powerful. If we could attain holiness by working really hard at it, then we don't need God at all. And, if holiness is something that we have to do for ourselves, that would suggest that God doesn't really do anything except give us our ticket to heaven. But, do we really get the ticket to heaven if we don't make ourselves holy first? And, if not, what has God done for us? Why did Jesus have to die on the cross? If holiness is the product of our good work, then so much of the gospel is meaningless.
I say all this, truly wondering if I have misunderstood you. If I have, please clarify. If I haven't, and what you really are saying is that holiness is something that comes about through our choice to work hard and not merely by God's grace, through faith, then my above comments are apropos.
