What is salvation?

[Bible Highlighter]

I repented and believed because I read His word, which was translated by people who learned the source languages. I am grateful for those men and women who developed this skill, so that I could know God's word. But, I believe that there is value in studying the source languages on my own, so I can understand nuances that are not as apparent in translation.

I have nothing against a person studying Hebrew or Greek. The problem I have is when folks think that the only way you can truly understand the Bible is by studying the original languages.

So, the short answer is yes, like the rest of us, you do sin. Given that fact, I'd say your theology puts you in a precarious spot. The Pharisees demanded moral perfection, and Jesus said that their righteousness was insufficient. If you had denied sinning, then you'd be calling God a liar. So, one thing thatis beyond reasoned debate among Christians is the fact that our salvation comes only from God's grace.

Nowhere did ever say I never sinned out of my entire life time. But I do not believe in the Pharisee religion that was all works with no grace or no savior. I believe a person ultimately gets their heart right with God thru repenting of their sins to Jesus Christ. But James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone.

I mean why should we work out our salvation with fear and trembling if there is no fear? Doesn't tremble line up with the word "fear"?

Paul says that God's grace saves us through faith. And, faith without works is dead. In other words, faith (pisteos is a great subject for a word study for those wanting to better understand God's grace) that does not is not expressed in the way we live is not really faith at all and is impotent to save. But faith without works is not more impotent than works without faith (such as is seen in legalism or doing good to impress God).

In short, we are called to be made holy, not by our own efforts, but by God's (sanctification). Different people are at different points of our salvation, but that doesn't make one person more "saved" than another.

You said a whole lot of stuff but it doesn't make a bit of sense. Please post verses in context and cross references. Also, can you make a real world example out of what you are talking about here?

I don't take a position in the OSAS debate. I don't know that any of us is truly "saved", but those who have faith in Jesus are surely being saved. Doea God ever abandon the saving process? I don't think he does. But, I do entertain the possibility that we can, by our own rebellion, frustrate God's work. I know that those who subscribe to OSAS would disagree. But, otoh, we also need to acknowledge that, if are able, by our own efforts to frustrate God's salavtion, it is not mere sin that does so, but our total unwillingness to be made holy.

So what do you make of the fall of the entire human race all because of Adam's one sin?


...

 

[Kersh]

I have nothing against a person studying Hebrew or Greek. The problem I have is when folks think that the only way you can truly understand the Bible is by studying the original languages.



Nowhere did ever say I never sinned out of my entire life time. But I do not believe in the Pharisee religion that was all works with no grace or no savior. I believe a person ultimately gets their heart right with God thru repenting of their sins to Jesus Christ. But James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone.

I mean why should we work out our salvation with fear and trembling if there is no fear? Doesn't tremble line up with the word "fear"?



You said a whole lot of stuff but it doesn't make a bit of sense. Please post verses in context and cross references. Also, can you make a real world example out of what you are talking about here?



So what do you make of the fall of the entire human race all because of Adam's one sin?


...

So, are you saved by grace? Or, by your own righteousness?
Logically, it cannot be both.

To answer your question, I believe that all sin is ultimately destructive. But, I also believe that Christ's death paid the eternal consequences for all sin. So, Adam's sin without Jesus' death resulted in ultimate destruction, but Jesus' sacrifice resulted in ultimate redemption for all who live by faith.

We are saved by grace through faith, NOT by works. Eph.2:8-9. All have sinned and fall short of God's glory. Romans 3:23. Thus we rely on God's grace through faith alone.

But faith (pisteos) is more than mere belief or assent. It is a life changing conviction. It is not a supplement to works; it is the motivation for our works, and faith that does not express itself in holy living is not faith. James 2.

So, we do not rely on works, but in faith for salvation. But the fruit of that salvation is holiness. Galatians 5:22-23. But because our salvation is by grace, we do not receive salvation for being holy, but ultimately our salvation grows us in holiness.

 

[EmSw]

So, are you saved by grace? Or, by your own righteousness?
Logically, it cannot be both.

To answer your question, I believe that all sin is ultimately destructive. But, I also believe that Christ's death paid the eternal consequences for all sin. So, Adam's sin without Jesus' death resulted in ultimate destruction, but Jesus' sacrifice resulted in ultimate redemption for all who live by faith.

We are saved by grace through faith, NOT by works. Eph.2:8-9. All have sinned and fall short of God's glory. Romans 3:23. Thus we rely on God's grace through faith alone.

But faith (pisteos) is more than mere belief or assent. It is a life changing conviction. It is not a supplement to works; it is the motivation for our works, and faith that does not express itself in holy living is not faith. James 2.

So, we do not rely on works, but in faith for salvation. But the fruit of that salvation is holiness. Galatians 5:22-23. But because our salvation is by grace, we do not receive salvation for being holy, but ultimately our salvation grows us in holiness.

Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Faith alone will not bring about holiness, therefore by faith alone, you will not see the Lord.

 

[Kersh]

Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Faith alone will not bring about holiness, therefore by faith alone, you will not see the Lord.

Faith alone does not bring about holiness? I agree to an extent. The Holy Spirit brings about holiness. Grace, through faith, (not works), opens us up to receive the Holy Spirit. The confusion arises when we define faith as mere belief. Faith is a conviction, trust, and drive that leads us into following Jesus. But, by God's grace, faith is all we need. Our good works or abstinence from sin will never bring about holiness. But, faith will always bear righteous fruit.

 

[EmSw]

Faith alone does not bring about holiness? I agree to an extent. The Holy Spirit brings about holiness. Grace, through faith, (not works), opens us up to receive the Holy Spirit. The confusion arises when we define faith as mere belief. Faith is a conviction, trust, and drive that leads us into following Jesus. But, by God's grace, faith is all we need. Our good works or abstinence from sin will never bring about holiness. But, faith will always bear righteous fruit.

What is holiness to you?

 

[Kersh]

What is holiness to you?

Holiness is to live like Jesus lived, a life that, in every moment exhibits the fruit of the Holy Spirit. I'd point to Matthew 5 and Galatians 5:22-23 as the best biblical descriptions of holiness. As Jesus said, "be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:48.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[EmSw]

Holiness is to live like Jesus lived, a life that, in every moment exhibits the fruit of the Holy Spirit. I'd point to Matthew 5 and Galatians 5:22-23 as the best biblical descriptions of holiness. As Jesus said, "be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:48.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

Is this required or is it an option for believers?

 

[Kersh]

Is this required or is it an option for believers?

It is an inevitable outcome for sincere believers. To state it as a requirement or option places the cart before the horse. Holiness is a fruit of salvation. Salvation is never brought about by by being holy. In fact, it is impossible for an unsaved person to live a holy life.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[Marvin Knox]

It is an inevitable outcome for sincere believers. To state it as a requirement or option places the cart before the horse. Holiness is a fruit of salvation. Salvation is never brought about by by being holy. In fact, it is impossible for an unsaved person to live a holy life.

 

[EmSw]

It is an inevitable outcome for sincere believers. To state it as a requirement or option places the cart before the horse. Holiness is a fruit of salvation. Salvation is never brought about by by being holy. In fact, it is impossible for an unsaved person to live a holy life.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

So holiness just happens like magic? Just sit back and God will pour holiness on those who continue in sin and evil works. The beliefs in the church today are unbelievable.

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

Strong's has this for pursue -

1. to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after
   1. to press on: figuratively of one who in a race runs swiftly to reach the goal
      
      
   2. to pursue (in a hostile manner)
2. in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one
   1. to persecute
      
      
   2. to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something
3. without the idea of hostility, to run after, follow after: someone
   
   
4. metaph., to pursue
   1. to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire

Holiness does not come automatically for believers, nor is it an inevitable outcome. We must seek eagerly and earnestly endeavor to acquire it. We must run swiftly to catch it.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Romans 6:24
and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

You must put on the new man, that is, cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, and not just sit back and hope God puts on the new man.

Romans 6:19
I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

You will never attain holiness without presenting or yielding your members as slaves of righteousness. And yes, you have your followers who do not believe living in sin will destroy you. They have no shame of living the same way they did while unsaved.

Romans 6
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Yes, I see it everywhere on this forum. Many are not ashamed of the fruit they bore when they were slaves sin; they still eat of the same fruit. There is nothing new in them, the old man still has its grip on them. They gladly serve the old man, not willing to put the old man off. Yet Paul says the fruit of the old man is death. They had rather walk the path which leads to destruction than to strive to enter the narrow gate, wherein is eternal life.

I would also like to add this from David -

Psalm 36
1 An oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked: there is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For he flatters himself in his own eyes, when he finds out his iniquity and when he hates.
3 The words of his mouth are wickedness and deceit; he has ceased to be wise and to do good.

Those who continue to live in sin and think it is okay with God, have no fear of God in their eyes. They flatter themselves thinking they can live in iniquity before God. They have ceased to be wise and do good. Doing good to them in not required by God.

 

[Kersh]

So holiness just happens like magic? Just sit back and God will pour holiness on those who continue in sin and evil works. The beliefs in the church today are unbelievable.

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

Strong's has this for pursue -

1. to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after
   1. to press on: figuratively of one who in a race runs swiftly to reach the goal
      
      
   2. to pursue (in a hostile manner)
2. in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one
   1. to persecute
      
      
   2. to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something
3. without the idea of hostility, to run after, follow after: someone
   
   
4. metaph., to pursue
   1. to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire

Holiness does not come automatically for believers, nor is it an inevitable outcome. We must seek eagerly and earnestly endeavor to acquire it. We must run swiftly to catch it.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Romans 6:24
and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

You must put on the new man, that is, cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, and not just sit back and hope God puts on the new man.

Romans 6:19
I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

You will never attain holiness without presenting or yielding your members as slaves of righteousness. And yes, you have your followers who do not believe living in sin will destroy you. They have no shame of living the same way they did while unsaved.

Romans 6
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Yes, I see it everywhere on this forum. Many are not ashamed of the fruit they bore when they were slaves sin; they still eat of the same fruit. There is nothing new in them, the old man still has its grip on them. They gladly serve the old man, not willing to put the old man off. Yet Paul says the fruit of the old man is death. They had rather walk the path which leads to destruction than to strive to enter the narrow gate, wherein is eternal life.

I would also like to add this from David -

Psalm 36
1 An oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked: there is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For he flatters himself in his own eyes, when he finds out his iniquity and when he hates.
3 The words of his mouth are wickedness and deceit; he has ceased to be wise and to do good.

Those who continue to live in sin and think it is okay with God, have no fear of God in their eyes. They flatter themselves thinking they can live in iniquity before God. They have ceased to be wise and do good. Doing good to them in not required by God.

Tge pursuit of God (and holiness) is the object of faith. If you disagree, then I suppose we'll just have to disagree. I'm on my way out of town, and I won't be online for a few days. So, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Marvin Knox]

So holiness just happens like magic? Just sit back and God will pour holiness on those who continue in sin and evil works. The beliefs in the church today are unbelievable....holiness does not come automatically for believers, nor is it an inevitable outcome. We must seek eagerly and earnestly endeavor to acquire it. We must run swiftly to catch it............You must put on the new man, that is, cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, and not just sit back and hope God puts on the new man......You will never attain holiness without presenting or yielding your members as slaves of righteousness.

Where on earth do you get off "pretending" that those who believe in the eternal security of believers say such things?

Every believer in eternal security agrees that the persuit of holiness is a joint effort between a man and his savior.

Shame on you. You have been corrected on these things many times and you continue to lie about your fellow believers just because you disagree with them on some things.

And yes, you have your followers who do not believe living in sin will destroy you. They have no shame of living the same way they did while unsaved.

Shame on you.

Where do you get off, as a supposed believer, in saying such obvious lies about your fellow believers just because you disagree with them on some things?

Yes, I see it everywhere on this forum. Many are not ashamed of the fruit they bore when they were slaves sin; they still eat of the same fruit. There is nothing new in them, the old man still has its grip on them. They gladly serve the old man, not willing to put the old man off. Yet Paul says the fruit of the old man is death. They had rather walk the path which leads to destruction than to strive to enter the narrow gate, wherein is eternal life.

You don't see any such thing demonstrated on this forum and certainly not on this thread.

Shame on you for lying in such a way about your fellow believers just because you disagree with them on some things.

Where on earth did you get the idea that people who believe in the eternal security of new creations in Christ are not ashamed of their sins?

Where did you get the idea that believers in eternal security are any more gripped by sin than yourself or any other believer who disagrees with them?

Where did you get the idea that there is nothing new in these believers?

Where did you get the idea that we do not put off the old man daily?

Where did you get the idea that we would rather walk the path of sin rather than enter the narrow gate?

Those who continue to live in sin and think it is okay with God, have no fear of God in their eyes. They flatter themselves thinking they can live in iniquity before God. They have ceased to be wise and do good. Doing good to them in not required by God.

Where did you ever get the idea that we continue to live in sin?

Where did you ever get the idea that we have no fear of God just because we believe we are sons of God?

Who have you ever heard say that they think they can live in iniquity before God without severe consequences?

Who told you that I and like minded believers are not wise?

Who told you that I and like minded believers do not do just as much good, if not more, than you or anyone else?

Where did you ever get the idea that we do not believe that doing good is required by God?

You are lying about your fellow believers and you will answer for your sins.

It may not be with a loss of salvation (assuming that you are saved in the first place) but your sins against the body of Christ will not go unanswered by God at the judgment.

Please repent of your lying sins against Christ's body. Apologize to your fellow believers here.

 

[EmSw]

Where on earth do you get off "pretending" that those who believe in the eternal security of believers say such things?

I'll start with you Marvin.

Can a believer in Christ continue in evil works and still be saved? Yes or No.

Can a believer in Christ maintain his life in the old man and still be saved? Yes or No.

If a believer in Christ does not put off the old man daily, will he be saved? Yes or No.

Does a believer in Christ have to strive to enter the narrow gate, through which is eternal life? Yes or No.

Are good works of the new man necessary for salvation? Yes or No.

It depends upon your answers whether I am right or wrong. I've read your answers before, so I will know if you decide to lie or not.

 

[GillDouglas]

The Bible talks about salvation, justification, adoption, heirship, redemption, sanctification, glorification, among other terms.

What is the relationship between these concepts? Are they different ways of describing the same thing? Is salvation a general term that is summed up by two or more of the other terms?

Here are the terms and my understanding of them:

Salvation is the gift of eternal life, a gift given by God, a gift that is not earned, a gift that cannot be refused by the elect. Salvation is the term in which all others describe in part.
"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5)

Adoption is when we become a child of God, the elect chosen long before they were born.
"To redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” " (Galatians 4:5-7)

Heirship ties closely in with adoption. Not all will receive the gift of eternal life.
"This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring." (Romans 9:8)

Justification is the term to describe the first stage of salvation, the instantaneous moment in which God changes the heart by His grace and mercy, and we accept His gift of the Holy Spirit by faith.
"So that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:7)

Sanctification is the lifelong process, which varies in degree with each individual, where the justified are made more holy and will sin less in practice by the work of the Holy Spirit. To become more Christ like, but never perfect!
"We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin." (Romans 6:6)

Glorification ties everything together back to God. The life and events of the individual and those yet to come which glorify our Creator who not only gave us life but has redeemed us eternally. To God alone be the glory!!
"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." (1 John 3:2-4)

Eternal Security is directly related to the promise that God gave His chosen. Though we may yet struggle in this life, the difficulties we face in this fallen world are meant to challenge and grow us. This is directly related to Sanctification. One is not made perfectly holy upon their conversion (Justification) or there would be no room for growth. This forces the adopted to rely and trust totally on God's work within them, and not themselves.
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." (John 10:27-29)

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Peace be with you.

Good questions. I see no problems in these questions.

Can a believer in Christ continue in evil works and still be saved? Yes or No.

No.

Can a believer in Christ maintain his life in the old man and still be saved? Yes or No.

No.

If a believer in Christ does not put off the old man daily, will he be saved? Yes or No.

No.

Does a believer in Christ have to strive to enter the narrow gate, through which is eternal life? Yes or No.

Yes.

Are good works of the new man necessary for salvation? Yes or No.

Yes.

God bless you.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

So holiness just happens like magic? Just sit back and God will pour holiness on those who continue in sin and evil works. The beliefs in the church today are unbelievable.

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

Strong's has this for pursue -

1. to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after
   1. to press on: figuratively of one who in a race runs swiftly to reach the goal
      
      
   2. to pursue (in a hostile manner)
2. in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one
   1. to persecute
      
      
   2. to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something
3. without the idea of hostility, to run after, follow after: someone
   
   
4. metaph., to pursue
   1. to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire

Holiness does not come automatically for believers, nor is it an inevitable outcome. We must seek eagerly and earnestly endeavor to acquire it. We must run swiftly to catch it.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Romans 6:24
and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

You must put on the new man, that is, cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, and not just sit back and hope God puts on the new man.

Romans 6:19
I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

You will never attain holiness without presenting or yielding your members as slaves of righteousness. And yes, you have your followers who do not believe living in sin will destroy you. They have no shame of living the same way they did while unsaved.

Romans 6
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Yes, I see it everywhere on this forum. Many are not ashamed of the fruit they bore when they were slaves sin; they still eat of the same fruit. There is nothing new in them, the old man still has its grip on them. They gladly serve the old man, not willing to put the old man off. Yet Paul says the fruit of the old man is death. They had rather walk the path which leads to destruction than to strive to enter the narrow gate, wherein is eternal life.

I would also like to add this from David -

Psalm 36
1 An oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked: there is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For he flatters himself in his own eyes, when he finds out his iniquity and when he hates.
3 The words of his mouth are wickedness and deceit; he has ceased to be wise and to do good.

Those who continue to live in sin and think it is okay with God, have no fear of God in their eyes. They flatter themselves thinking they can live in iniquity before God. They have ceased to be wise and do good. Doing good to them in not required by God.

Peace be with you.

Very Wise Words Full of Truth.

God bless you.

 

[fhansen]

The Bible talks about salvation, justification, adoption, heirship, redemption, sanctification, glorification, among other terms.

What is the relationship between these concepts? Are they different ways of describing the same thing? Is salvation a general term that is summed up by two or more of the other terms?

I ask these questions because I feel like so much of the discussion of soteriology is about OSAS or eternal security vs. conditional security. But, I wonder if these terms have any meaning if we don't first identify what it means to be "saved". For example, it seems that the adoption, heirship, and redemption are all treated as part and parcel of justification. And, some would say that these are all aspects of salvation. But, what if a person who has been justified never becomes sanctified? Or is the fact that that person never becomes sanctified proof that he or she never was justified? Or are justification and sanctification two sides of the same coin? I guess I wonder if the whole debate about eternal security really comes down to how well established our understanding of all of these topics is.

To be justified means to be, well, just. God justifies us, makes us right, and then, so long as we persevere in that justice, maintaining it and even growing in it, God would never deny us entrance into heaven. It's all a work of His hands after all, and yet a work we can reject or refuse to participate in.

 

[sdowney717]

Here are the terms and my understanding of them:

Salvation is the gift of eternal life, a gift given by God, a gift that is not earned, a gift that cannot be refused by the elect. Salvation is the term in which all others describe in part.
"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5)

Adoption is when we become a child of God, the elect chosen long before they were born.
"To redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” " (Galatians 4:5-7)

Heirship ties closely in with adoption. Not all will receive the gift of eternal life.
"This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring." (Romans 9:8)

Justification is the term to describe the first stage of salvation, the instantaneous moment in which God changes the heart by His grace and mercy, and we accept His gift of the Holy Spirit by faith.
"So that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:7)

Sanctification is the lifelong process, which varies in degree with each individual, where the justified are made more holy and will sin less in practice by the work of the Holy Spirit. To become more Christ like, but never perfect!
"We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin." (Romans 6:6)

Glorification ties everything together back to God. The life and events of the individual and those yet to come which glorify our Creator who not only gave us life but has redeemed us eternally. To God alone be the glory!!
"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." (1 John 3:2-4)

Eternal Security is directly related to the promise that God gave His chosen. Though we may yet struggle in this life, the difficulties we face in this fallen world are meant to challenge and grow us. This is directly related to Sanctification. One is not made perfectly holy upon their conversion (Justification) or there would be no room for growth. This forces the adopted to rely and trust totally on God's work within them, and not themselves.
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." (John 10:27-29)

Just adding in not only do the sheep follow Christ, but they flee from the voice of a stranger. Jesus says the sheep will not follow a stranger, they follow Him. Which also proves salvation for the sheep can not be lost. If anyone does not have the Spirit indwelling them of Christ, they are not His. But if they do, then they are His people, and the sheep of His pasture.


John 10New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus the True Shepherd
10 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

 

[EmSw]

Your questions have been answered by me many times and most here know it.

You may be emboldened because some Johnny come lately thinks your questions wise and hasn't seen them answered before.

But that doesn't change the fact that you made specific charges and were asked to substantiate them.

You were very specific in your charges and it should be easy to provide the source of your charges for me.

If you can not or will not provide instances where we have taken those positions - then my charge of your being a liar will stand.

Your unwillingness to do so will stand as testimony for all to see - not withstanding your anonymous Johnny come lately and Roman Catholic bedfellows.

Perhaps, if you remain unwilling, they could provide instances where we believers in the eternal security of born again children of God have said the things you charge.

This give and take will not go on much longer if you people remain unwilling to talk straight.

I'm giving you a chance to answer for yourself again. Your answers will determine whether I am lying or not. Perhaps you think if you carry this out long enough, most will forget the questions. Well, I present them again to you so everyone can actually see the questions I asked of you.

Can a believer in Christ continue in evil works and still be saved? Yes or No.

Can a believer in Christ maintain his life in the old man and still be saved? Yes or No.

If a believer in Christ does not put off the old man daily, will he be saved? Yes or No.

Does a believer in Christ have to strive to enter the narrow gate, through which is eternal life? Yes or No.

Are good works of the new man necessary for salvation? Yes or No.

 

[EmSw]

Peace be with you.

Good questions. I see no problems in these questions.

Can a believer in Christ continue in evil works and still be saved? Yes or No.

No.

Can a believer in Christ maintain his life in the old man and still be saved? Yes or No.

No.

If a believer in Christ does not put off the old man daily, will he be saved? Yes or No.

No.

Does a believer in Christ have to strive to enter the narrow gate, through which is eternal life? Yes or No.

Yes.

Are good works of the new man necessary for salvation? Yes or No.

Yes.

God bless you.

Thank you Gabriel. God bless.