What is MAD?

[eph3Nine]

That is interesting.
Ok, so for those of you who believe in the MAD stuff - is this correct? Is this what you believe? Does this accurately explain your SECRET?
Do ya'll think that this BIG SECRET was hidden even from Jesus?
What do you think God's eternal purpose is?
Or is that a BIG MYSTERIOUS SECRET too?
Thank you.

NO...as usual, one who doesnt know what we believe has again MISREPRESENTED the facts.

We have never stated that Jesus didnt KNOW the mystery. He is God ....dont be absurd...He knows everything. Geeeeesh.

The burning question is , since HE KNEW the mystery truths but did NOT reveal them at the time of His earthly ministry (and this WAS His choice since the scriptures TELL us that this SECRET was HID IN GOD), then why ?

Jesus Himself answers this question when He tells us that during His earthly ministry "He came (in His EARTHLY ministry) to NONE but the lost sheep of the House of Israel".

The Jews were to accept their prophesied MESSIAH and believe on HIS NAME, be water baptized for the remission of their sins (since Jesus had yet to DIE for anyones sin) and THEN, after the NATION beleived in THEIR Promised Messiah, they were to go to all the world and bring THEM to God as well.

Under the Kingdom plan, it was to the JEW first, they were the favored NATION and Gods Chosen channel of blessing for the rest of the world.....AT THAT TIME...which the Bible calls "times PAST" in Eph. 2.

Please...stop with the sarcasm as to the BIG SECRET stuff, ok?

We are here trying to help you understand the scriptures. There is NO OTHER REASON would we would continue taking your abuse and snotty comments.

The MYSTERY TRUTHS which WE, the body of Christ have been entrusted WITH have BEEN REVEALED! Where? Thats the question.

Then why dont "believers" see them? Because they have fallen prey to the plan of evil presented by satan as he and his "ministers of righteousness", and fallen angels "appearing as angels of LIGHT." RELIGION and churchianity has taken the place of STUDY.

Are the Mystery truths found in Peters epistles or Matthew, Mark , Luke and John? Are they found in the red letter words of Christ in His ministry on the earth TO THE NATION ISRAEL?

NO.

They are ONLY found in the epistles of Paul. HE is the ONE who was entrusted with the REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY which was kept secret since the world began. How do I know this? Scripture tells me, and I BELIEVE IT.

Do you even KNOW what the fourteen doctrines ARE that are found ONLY In Pauls epistles and NOWHERE ELSE? Do you care?

1. The formation of the Body of Christ
2.This PRESENT dispensation of the GRACE of God.
3. The GOSPEL of the GRACE of God
4. The temporary setting ASIDE of Israel
5. The EQUALITY of Jew and Gentile
6. The ONE baptism of Eph 4:5
7. The NEW commission to preach the gospel
8. The HEAVENLY position of the believer
9. Christ as the HEAD of the Body
10. The Lords Supper
11. The Coming of Christ in the AIR for his Church
12.The JUDGEMENT seat of Christ
13. The MINISTRY of the Holy Spirit
14. The FULL and COMPLETE Revelation

I have scriptures to show the veracity of each of these statements as to be found ONLY IN PAULS EPISTLES.

I would say without a doubt that since NO ONE mentioned any of these things in the KINGDOM gospel, that Paul indeed had some NEW information.

When will people LOOK AT the FACTS before jumping to conclusions NOT found in the scriptures, merely to "protect their coveted RELIGIOUS beliefs" that are NOT founded in FACT????

 

[eph3Nine]

Gods ETERNAL purpose is to bring all things unto Himself...in both HEAVEN and EARTH.

And his plan as to HOW HE WILL DO THIS is represented by His program with the Nation ISRAEL/ the earthly plan, and His program with the Body of Christ/the heavenly plan.

If you dont know about the BIG PICTURE and what started this whole ruckus, and how God plans on RESTORING His rightful rule and reign in both of these realms that have been USURPED BY satan, then you miss the whole awesome Plan altogether!

Please see the post before this one for the answers to your other questions. Thank you.

 

[christianmomof3]

Please...stop with the sarcasm as to the BIG SECRET stuff, ok?

I am sorry. I do not mean to be sarcastic. As I look at the posts in this forum - not just yours, but even some of the links, there are tons of WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS - usually about the

ACCORDING TO THE REVELATiON OF THE MYSTERY which was KEPT SECRET since the world began"

- that quote is from you - you always put SECRET and MYSTERY in CAPITAL LETTERS and so do some of the other people in this forum and in some of the links, so that is why I put it that way too.

Do you even KNOW what the fourteen doctrines ARE that are found ONLY In Pauls epistles and NOWHERE ELSE? Do you care?

1. The formation of the Body of Christ
2.This PRESENT dispensation of the GRACE of God.
3. The GOSPEL of the GRACE of God
4. The temporary setting ASIDE of Israel
5. The EQUALITY of Jew and Gentile
6. The ONE baptism of Eph 4:5
7. The NEW commission to preach the gospel
8. The HEAVENLY position of the believer
9. Christ as the HEAD of the Body
10. The Lords Supper
11. The Coming of Christ in the AIR for his Church
12.The JUDGEMENT seat of Christ
13. The MINISTRY of the Holy Spirit
14. The FULL and COMPLETE Revelation

I have scriptures to show the veracity of each of these statements as to be found ONLY IN PAULS EPISTLES.

I would say without a doubt that since NO ONE mentioned any of these things in the KINGDOM gospel, that Paul indeed had some NEW information.

When will people LOOK AT the FACTS before jumping to conclusions NOT found in the scriptures, merely to "protect their coveted RELIGIOUS beliefs" that are NOT founded in FACT????

Can you go back through that list and put the scripture references next to each point then?
I do know that Paul saw the Body and that the other writers of the Bible did not descripbe it as he did. But, I don't know what you are referring to about in point 4 about Israel, or anything new in point 7 or really what you are referring to with any of those points without scripture references.
So, if you will put an explanation and scripture reference next to each point, perhaps that would help clear up the MYSTERY (no sarcasm intended - just humor).

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Pastor C. Richard Jordan of the Grace School of the Bible, a Mid Acts Dispensationalist, who teaches error in his message "When Did Christ Learn the Mystery"says differently than you, teaching that Christ was not dual natured, but a lesser god, and not both YHWH and Man, but only Man while He walked the earth, and ignorant of what God knew.
Also, on Berean home page,
http://www.geocities.com/benwebb.geo/
this is said:

"4. Pauline Dispensationalists all agree that the body of Christ began with the apostle Paul. Christians who are known as Pauline Dispensationalists comprise both the Acts 28 position and the Mid Acts position. These two groups may disagree among themselves as to exactly when the church began, but both groups believe that Paul was the first member of the body of Christ...."

So, Jesus Christ was not a member of the body of Christ!

Yet He is the Chief foundation Stone laid in Zion, which is the true "heavenly" body = Church.

 

[eph3Nine]

I am sorry. I do not mean to be sarcastic. As I look at the posts in this forum - not just yours, but even some of the links, there are tons of WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS - usually about the - that quote is from you - you always put SECRET and MYSTERY in CAPITAL LETTERS and so do some of the other people in this forum and in some of the links, so that is why I put it that way too.

Can you go back through that list and put the scripture references next to each point then?
I do know that Paul saw the Body and that the other writers of the Bible did not descripbe it as he did. But, I don't know what you are referring to about in point 4 about Israel, or anything new in point 7 or really what you are referring to with any of those points without scripture references.
So, if you will put an explanation and scripture reference next to each point, perhaps that would help clear up the MYSTERY (no sarcasm intended - just humor).

Ya know, it takes alot of TIME and EFFORT to type all of it OVER AGAIN here. It has been done many times already.

Will you actually READ them and consider them if I do????

 

[eph3Nine]

Pastor C. Richard Jordan of the Grace School of the Bible, a Mid Acts Dispensationalist, who teaches error in his message "When Did Christ Learn the Mystery"says differently than you, teaching that Christ was not dual natured, but a lesser god, and not both YHWH and Man, but only Man while He walked the earth, and ignorant of what God knew.

Im not going there....what Pastor Jordan beleives is up to HIM to defend, not I. He is a fine teacher of dispensational truth, however.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Im not going there....what Pastor Jordan beleives is up to HIM to defend, not I. He is a fine teacher of dispensational truth, however.

He already went there -and so have many, many, many, of your fellow MAD members.


me;

The secret was so hidden -according to M.A.D., that not even Jesus Christ knew it or preached it! -in their own words!

Their hidden, secret, new gospel replaces the Gospel which Jesus Christ came preaching -so they say! and no one is to obey Jesus Christ's commands -so they say, for Paul was the "last prophet", so they say!

christianmomof3 Do ya'll think that this BIG SECRET was hidden even from Jesus?

eph3nine NO...as usual, one who doesnt know what we believe has again MISREPRESENTED the facts.
We have never stated that Jesus didnt KNOW the mystery. He is God ....dont be absurd...He knows everything. ...

me;

Pastor C. Richard Jordan of the Grace School of the Bible, a Mid Acts Dispensationalist, who teaches error in his message "When Did Christ Learn the Mystery"says differently than you, teaching that Christ was not dual natured, but a lesser god, and not both YHWH and Man, but only Man while He walked the earth, and ignorant of what God knew.

eph3nine Im not going there....what Pastor Jordan beleives is up to HIM to defend, not I. He is a fine teacher of dispensational truth, however.....NO...as usual, one who doesnt know what we believe has again MISREPRESENTED the facts.....

Me: Ha!

 

[christianmomof3]

Ya know, it takes alot of TIME and EFFORT to type all of it OVER AGAIN herpe. It has been done many times already.

Will you actually READ them and consider them if I do????

If those 14 points are already on here somewhere with the explanations and verses you can just point me to that thread - no need to retype it.
It is also much easier to read and follow it without all of the CAPITAL LETTERS which make it look like you are shouting and it just plain makes it harder to read and follow.
Thank you.

 

[eph3Nine]

1. The formation of the Body of Christ
2.This PRESENT dispensation of the GRACE of God.
3. The GOSPEL of the GRACE of God
4. The temporary setting ASIDE of Israel
5. The EQUALITY of Jew and Gentile
6. The ONE baptism of Eph 4:5
7. The NEW commission to preach the gospel
8. The HEAVENLY position of the believer
9. Christ as the HEAD of the Body
10. The Lords Supper
11. The Coming of Christ in the AIR for his Church
12.The JUDGEMENT seat of Christ
13. The MINISTRY of the Holy Spirit
14. The FULL and COMPLETE Revelation

I will deal with the ones you referenced FIRST, hows that?

Nbr 4. NOWHERE but in Pauls epistles do we see ANY mention of Israels being TEMPORARILY "SET ASIDE".

The "Revelation of the MYSTERY" gives the ONLY scriptural answer as to WHY God is not now dealing with the Nation Israel. It is BECAUSE He has set the Nation ASIDE, at ACTS 28, for the remainder of THIS dispensation.

Romans 11:25 "For I would not , brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that BLINDNESS in part is happened to ISRAEL, until the fullness of the gentiles be come in."

The phrase "in part" shows that it is only a temporary setting aside UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles (which refers to the completion of the Body of Christ) be come in. AFTER this fulness, God will once again RESUME His program with Israel.

This BLINDNESS is seen very clearly in:

Acts 28:27,28 "For the heart of this people (Israel) is waxed gross, nd their ears are dull of hearing, AND THEIR EYES have they CLOSED; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears and understand with their heart nd should be converted and I should heal them. Be it known unto you, THAT THE SALVATION OF GOD is SENT UNTO THE GENTILES and that THEY will hear it."

And so with the quotation of Isaiah 6:9,10, God temporarily sets Israel ASIDE and NOW deals with the gentiles.

This SETTING ASIDE of Israel is called a "FALL", the "diminishing" and the "casting away" in:

Romans 11:11, 12, 15 " I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid, but rather thru THEIR FALL salvation has come unto the GENTILES, for to provoke them unto jealousy. Now if the FALL of them be the riches of the Gentiles, how much more their fulness?
For if the CASTING AWAY of them be the reconciling of the world, wht shall the receiving of them be but life from the dead?"

According to PROPHECY, the Gentiles were to be saved through the SALVATION (rise) of ISRAEL (Isaiah 11:1, 10; Romans 15:8-12)

But ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY, salvation has come to the Gentiles through the FALL of Israel.

NOWHERE but in Pauls MYSTERY REVEALED to him BY the RISEN Christ do you find ANY mention of the FALL or setting ASIDE of Israel!


As to Point 7....we are NOT under the commission given to PETER with regard to the gospel.

We have been given a NEW commission and Peters commission is OUT OF COMMISSION.

OUR commission is set forth in 2 Cor. 5:14-20
"For the LOVE of Christ constrains us, because we thus judge, that if one died for ALL then all were dead; and that He died for ALL, that they that live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him who died for them, and rose again.

Wherefore, henceforth know we no man after the flesh; yea , though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet NOW henceforth know we Him NO MORE. Therefore , if any man be IN CHRIST He is a NEW CREATION, old things are passed away (his identity in ADAM); behold , all things become NEW. And all things are of God, who HATH RECONCILED us unto Himself BY Jesus Christ and hath GIVEN TO US THE MINISTRY OF RECONCILIATION; to wit, that God was in Christ, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath COMMITTED UNTO US THE WORD OF RECONCILIATION.

NOW THEN, we ARE AMBASSADORS FOR CHRIST, as tho God did beseech you by US; we pray you in Christs stead, be ye RECONCILED TO GOD"

Reconciliation DEMANDS that Jews AND Gentiles be recognized as having BOTH been ALIENATED from God.

There are more scriptures regarding this alienation...but I will stop here.

 

[christianmomof3]

Nbr 4. NOWHERE but in Pauls epistles do we see ANY mention of Israels being TEMPORARILY "SET ASIDE".

The "Revelation of the MYSTERY" gives the ONLY scriptural answer as to WHY God is not now dealing with the Nation Israel. It is BECAUSE He has set the Nation ASIDE, at ACTS 28, for the remainder of THIS dispensation.

Romans 11:25 "For I would not , brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that BLINDNESS in part is happened to ISRAEL, until the fullness of the gentiles be come in."

The phrase "in part" shows that it is only a temporary setting aside UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles (which refers to the completion of the Body of Christ) be come in. AFTER this fulness, God will once again RESUME His program with Israel.

This BLINDNESS is seen very clearly in:

Acts 28:27,28 "For the heart of this people (Israel) is waxed gross, nd their ears are dull of hearing, AND THEIR EYES have they CLOSED; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears and understand with their heart nd should be converted and I should heal them. Be it known unto you, THAT THE SALVATION OF GOD is SENT UNTO THE GENTILES and that THEY will hear it."

And so with the quotation of Isaiah 6:9,10, God temporarily sets Israel ASIDE and NOW deals with the gentiles.

This SETTING ASIDE of Israel is called a "FALL", the "diminishing" and the "casting away" in:

Romans 11:11, 12, 15 " I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid, but rather thru THEIR FALL salvation has come unto the GENTILES, for to provoke them unto jealousy. Now if the FALL of them be the riches of the Gentiles, how much more their fulness?
For if the CASTING AWAY of them be the reconciling of the world, wht shall the receiving of them be but life from the dead?"

According to PROPHECY, the Gentiles were to be saved through the SALVATION (rise) of ISRAEL (Isaiah 11:1, 10; Romans 15:8-12)

But ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY, salvation has come to the Gentiles through the FALL of Israel.

NOWHERE but in Pauls MYSTERY REVEALED to him BY the RISEN Christ do you find ANY mention of the FALL or setting ASIDE of Israel!

Hmm, I thought the "in part" referred to part of Israel. Because some of Israel - some of the Jews were saved at that time and throughout the last 2000 years, there have been Jews who have been saved, but only part of them - not all of them. Part of them are blinded to the fact that Jesus Christ is God, and that is and was so that the gospel could go out to the gentiles. But, if the whole nation of Israel is set aside until the Lord returns then why am I (a Jew) saved now? And why are many other Jews saved now during the dispensation of grace?

 

[eph3Nine]

Hmm, I thought the "in part" referred to part of Israel. Because some of Israel - some of the Jews were saved at that time and throughout the last 2000 years, there have been Jews who have been saved, but only part of them - not all of them. Part of them are blinded to the fact that Jesus Christ is God, and that is and was so that the gospel could go out to the gentiles. But, if the whole nation of Israel is set aside until the Lord returns then why am I (a Jew) saved now? And why are many other Jews saved now during the dispensation of grace?

Israel as a NATION was blinded to Jesus being their PROPHESIED MESSIAH and KING. God isnt dealing with them as a NATION with special status today...they are "LO AMMI" which means "not my people".

God will AGAIN resume His program with them when this "time of the gentiles"...or the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATiON OF THE MYSTERY which was kept secret since the world began", but is NOW revealed to the church which is His BODY. There was NO BODY OF CHRIST to reveal this to under Peters program to the nation Israel. Theirs was an earthly inheritance and calling.

Today...the Body of Christ...containing believing Jews and Gentiles alike, has a Heavenly calling and heavenly destination. Israel wasnt promised HEAVEN, but the KINGDOM of heaven ON THE EARTH. See the difference? That offer is not on the table today...God interrrupted it with the REVELATION of the MYSTERY and a NEW apostle..ONE apostle for the Body of Christ....TWELVE apostles for the KINGDOM OF GOD ON THE EARTH in times PAST.


The Second part of the answer to your question:

Of course there were Jews saved at that time! But the gospel they beleived to BE saved was NOT the gospel being presented today under the Gospel of the GRACE of God.

YOU, who are jewish by birth and heritage, can ONLY be saved in this dispensation of GRACE by believing in the gospel of YOUR salvation, which is found IN THE WRITINGS OF PAUL as HE is your apostle.

There is NO distinctiveness of jew and gentile for salvation as there was in the PAST. NOW...under the gospel of the GRACE of God , ALL are saved according to the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY which was KEPT SECRET since the world began"

So..you are not considered any special status as a "jew" today...God sees you as a member of the Body of Christ where there IS no distinction. We are all ONE in HIM.

That was certainly NOT the case in times PAST when they, the jew , was told to go to "none but the JEW ONLY" with the gospel of the Kingdom. The NATION was to be saved FIRST, and then they could fulfil their commission of going to ALL other nations. They never believed and they never went. The apostles never got OUT of Jerusalem with the gospel of the Kingdom.


May the Lord give you understanding as you contemplate these timeless truths.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Im not going there....what Pastor Jordan beleives is up to HIM to defend, not I. He is a fine teacher of dispensational truth, however.

Do you agree with him regarding what ysm posted?

Christ was not dual natured, but a lesser god, and not both YHWH and Man, but only Man while He walked the earth, and ignorant of what God knew.​

If you don't agree, how can one be a fine teaching of dispesnational truth if he doesn't even understand who Jesus is?


Jesus is the God-Man . . not simply a man . . . .


If he, believing this lie about Jesus, is considered a fine teacher of dispensationalist truth, then how is it that dispensationalism should be seen as truth?




Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

Gods ETERNAL purpose is to bring all things unto Himself...in both HEAVEN and EARTH.

And his plan as to HOW HE WILL DO THIS is represented by His program with the Nation ISRAEL/ the earthly plan, and His program with the Body of Christ/the heavenly plan.

You got the "what" right .. . . but you got the 'how' dead wrong. . . .




Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

Israel as a NATION was blinded to Jesus being their PROPHESIED MESSIAH and KING. God isnt dealing with them as a NATION with special status today...they are "LO AMMI" which means "not my people".

God will AGAIN resume His program with them when this "time of the gentiles"...or the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATiON OF THE MYSTERY which was kept secret since the world began", but is NOW revealed to the church which is His BODY. There was NO BODY OF CHRIST to reveal this to under Peters program to the nation Israel. Theirs was an earthly inheritance and calling.

This is false teaching. There is no "program with Israel" to be resumed. The Church is not an interlude. The Church is the culmination of God's salvific plan on earth.

There will be no end to the Church "age" as you forsee it. There is no legitimate basis for believing otherwise.

It is all fueled by speculative interpretative process that reads into scripture what one wants to find there, while ignoring scripture that clearly contradicts such erroneous interpretations. . . .

God fulfilled all His promises to the Fathers of Israel, including Abraham, regarding the land, and nothing was left unfulfilled.


It says so right in the bible . . very explicitly I might add.

Today...the Body of Christ...containing believing Jews and Gentiles alike, has a Heavenly calling and heavenly destination. Israel wasnt promised HEAVEN, but the KINGDOM of heaven ON THE EARTH. See the difference? That offer is not on the table today...God interrrupted it with the REVELATION of the MYSTERY and a NEW apostle..ONE apostle for the Body of Christ....TWELVE apostles for the KINGDOM OF GOD ON THE EARTH in times PAST.


The Second part of the answer to your question:

Of course there were Jews saved at that time! But the gospel they beleived to BE saved was NOT the gospel being presented today under the Gospel of the GRACE of God.

YOU, who are jewish by birth and heritage, can ONLY be saved in this dispensation of GRACE by believing in the gospel of YOUR salvation, which is found IN THE WRITINGS OF PAUL as HE is your apostle.

There is NO distinctiveness of jew and gentile for salvation as there was in the PAST. NOW...under the gospel of the GRACE of God , ALL are saved according to the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY which was KEPT SECRET since the world began"

So..you are not considered any special status as a "jew" today...God sees you as a member of the Body of Christ where there IS no distinction. We are all ONE in HIM.

That was certainly NOT the case in times PAST when they, the jew , was told to go to "none but the JEW ONLY" with the gospel of the Kingdom. The NATION was to be saved FIRST, and then they could fulfil their commission of going to ALL other nations.

There is absolutely NOTHING in the bible that says the Nation of Israel had to be saved first, before the apostles could fulfill their commission of going to all the word. . .

Nothing!

And in fact, they did go!

[/quote]

They never believed and they never went. The apostles never got OUT of Jerusalem with the gospel of the Kingdom. [/quote]

That is absolutely false. Peter established the Church in Antioch and the Church in Rome. . .Others went to far off places . . .


Here is a brief summary of where the 12 Apostles went and what happend to them:

Reports and legends abound and they are not always reliable, but it is safe to say that the apostles went far and wide as heralds of the message of the risen Christ. An early legend says they cast lots and divided up the world to determine who would go where, so all could hear about Jesus. They suffered greatly for their faith and in most cases met violent deaths on account of their bold witness.



PETER and PAUL were both martyred in Rome about 66 AD, during the persecution under Emperor Nero. Paul was beheaded. Peter was crucified, upside down at his request, since he did not feel he was worthy to die in the same manner as his Lord.

ANDREW went to the "land of the man-eaters," in what is now the Soviet Union. Christians there claim him as the first to bring the gospel to their land. He also preached in Asia Minor, modern-day Turkey, and in Greece, where he is said to have been crucified.

"Doubting" THOMAS was probably most active in the area east of Syria. Tradition has him preaching as far east as India, where the ancient Marthoma Christians revere him as their founder. They claim that he died there when pierced through with the spears of four soldiers.

PHILIP possibly had a powerful ministry in Carthage in North Africa and then in Asia Minor, where he converted the wife of a Roman proconsul. In retaliation the proconsul had Philip arrested and cruelly put to death.

MATTHEW the tax collector and writer of a Gospel, ministered in Persia and Ethiopia. Some of the oldest reports say he was not martyred, while others say he was stabbed to death in Ethiopia.

BARTHOLOMEW had widespread missionary travels attributed to him by tradition: to India with Thomas, back to Armenia, and also to Ethiopia and Southern Arabia. There are various accounts of how he met his death as a martyr for the gospel.

JAMES the son of Alpheus, is one of at least three Jameses referred to in the New Testament. There is some confusion as to which is which, but this James is reckoned to have ministered in Syria. The Jewish historian Josephus reported that he was stoned and then clubbed to death.

SIMON THE ZEALOT, so the story goes, ministered in Persia and was killed after refusing to sacrifice to the sun god.

MATTHIAS was the apostle chosen to replace Judas. Tradition sends him to Syria with Andrew and to death by burning.

JOHN is the only one of the company generally thought to have died a natural death from old age. He was the leader of the church in the Ephesus area and is said to have taken care of Mary the mother of Jesus in his home. During Domitian's persecution in the middle 90's, he was exiled to the island of Patmos. There he is credited with writing the last book of the New Testament--the Revelation. An early Latin tradition has him escaping unhurt after being cast into boiling oil at Rome.

http://chi.gospelcom.net/GLIMPSEF/Glimpses/glmps008.shtml
​

They MOST DEFINITELY left Jerusalem!


You have erred, not knowing the truth.




May the Lord give you understanding as you contemplate these timeless truths.[/QUOTE]

What you are proposing as 'timeless truths" has been shown to be utter falsehood above. .. . .




Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

That was my first thought too--this sounds heavily Gnostic.

Any time someone starts preaching "secrets" one risks going down the path of the gnostics . . . that does not mean that dispensationalists are gnostics per-se, but it does demonstrate that extreme/radical dispenationalism does appear to share some characteristics.

gnosticism went so far as to deny that Jesus had a physical body, that his body was only spirit, and only appeared to be physical, etc . . .

Dispenationalists, at least the ones I know of, do not believe such things. . but still, IMHO the danger is there when people start preaching "secrets" . . . .



Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

Here is a discussion on this issue of "secret knowledge" of dispensationalism:

There exists a self-feeding cycle in dispensationalism: pessimism about humanity and the future feeds the belief that the end of the world is just around the corner, while the belief in the rapidly approaching Tribulation makes such pessimism logical and necessary. Those not embracing this pessimistic perspective are often viewed with suspicion, and if they claim to be Christian they run the risk of being labeled “liberal” or identified as someone lacking “true knowledge of the Word”. Fundamentalism and dispensationalism share in a potent neo-Gnosticism, the conviction that “true believers” possess secret knowledge attainable only through their system of interpreting Scripture and rightly discerning “the signs of the times”. Related elements include the dualistic nature of the radical distinction made between Old Testament Israel and the Church, as well as a suspicious (and even hostile) attitude towards the material world. It logically follows that since The End is so near and this world is passing away, there is no need to invest time and effort into social, cultural, or political institutions and efforts. The Christian life, according to this perspective, should be oriented toward heaven and eternity, free from the impediments found in a fallen and depraved world.

http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=200
​

As a former dispenationalist of 30+ years, I can personally attest to the truth of the above comments.



Peace

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Do you agree with him regarding what ysm posted?

Christ was not dual natured, but a lesser god, and not both YHWH and Man, but only Man while He walked the earth, and ignorant of what God knew.​

If you don't agree, how can one be a fine teaching of dispesnational truth if he doesn't even understand who Jesus is?


Jesus is the God-Man . . not simply a man . . . .


If he, believing this lie about Jesus, is considered a fine teacher of dispensationalist truth, then how is it that dispensationalism should be seen as truth?




Peace

Hi thereselittleflower,
Jordon's comments leads to the deduction that Jesus is nothing more than a "lesser god", but he didn't actually say those words -just the teaching he gave in a certain council meeting -or whatever they call their gatherings, so upset another of their 'leaders' that he has given extensive teaching on that error of teaching, which is arianism in new clothes -according to the upset person.

Jordon has Jesus "emptying Himself of Deity" to become human, [agreeing to a "certain" supposed translator of Greek] instead of "leaving the glory" He had with the Father [as His prayer in John 17 states] and stepping down to indwell a human body of the second creation- and His dual nature then, is dismissed and not even understood by Jordon and those in Mid Acts who are swallowing that lie.

Everything Jesus did, Jordon teaches, was without His knowledge that He was "Deity! -being taught by the Father that He was "God!" in increasing revelation to Him while He walked on earth -and in increasing revelation to Him after His ascension -when He learned the great mystery of Mid Acts Dispys!!!!! So I heard from the person teaching against Jordon's teachings on the a certain site called "discerning the times".


<edited SJ>

The person in their movement who is taking his stand against Jordon's teachings and publishing them on the website called "discerning the times", is grieved, cause he knows the extreme error of Jordon; but he hasn't yet seen that the error is sucked up by those in his movement so readily because the foundation of Mid-Acts Dispensationism is not founded upon the Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ being the Chief Cornerstone of.

On one or two posts to me somewhere -maybe on another board, one of their own members told me that Jesus Christ Himself, and His Apostles, did not know "the Mystery", as it was revealed only to Paul, and I could search and search -if I had the time- to find just who personally said that to me, but as Jordon is on record, I don't think it neccessary to prove the point, which I think is made.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The confusion brought by the embracing of the "wisdom" of Mad doctrines is brought to a person because they cannot receive doctrines taught by the Teacher, the Holy Spirit, because they refuse to be regenerated in Spirit -by their own confession!

The foundational error of MAD is in not even understanding their own "one" "being", called "Adam", as the one "old man" which is the dead in spirit "body" they are born in [Genesis 5:2]

One is born as an individual multiplied seed, multiplied "in Adam" [Genesis 1:26-28], which is the "old man body", which is the ruined "house" -the defiled "temple" in which the Father will never dwell since His departing at the fall [Psalm 8; Luke 3:38; Genesis 3; Haggai 2].

In Adam we are fatherless, as our firstborn is not just physically departed from his ruined dominion, and cannot minister in the heavenly temple on our behalf [as all sons of God do minister there] , but the one "spirit" from which we have been born "in" [Malachi 2:15], made in the beginning for the "house of Adam" to be the "temple" in which the glory of the Father, and His presence, would dwell, is cut off from the glory forever and that is the first death, that separation of our "spirit" from the Father.

Only be being adopted in Spirit "in" the New Man's Living Spirit, and being made "One Spirit" then, "in", "by", "with" Him as our Head, can we be members of the "Body of Christ" which is the Church universal, being built as Heavenly Zion, and all are members of that "City" who are adopted into Christ.

Abraham received the Spirit of Regeneration by faith -believing the promise- when his name was changed as a sign of that regeneration to come. Isaiah 29:22 says Abraham was redeemed!

Jacob received the name of the New Man House, which theSpirit of Regeneration joins us to, when he was 'converted in Genesis 32.

Israel is the New Man, Adam is the old: both are "houses", or "temples" made for the Father's glory to indwell: both were made as human "sons" of God: one is dead, one is alive.

Only by adoption can we be made alive in Christ, the Living Spirit, come in human flesh as the "Foundation Stone" laid in Sion, as Firstborn, Chief, Head, "Everlasting Father", of the One New Man.

Scripture abounds on this theme and anyone can prove it for themselves by searching.

Eph 1:22And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,
Eph 1:23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church* daily such as should be saved.


Acts 2:47; And the Lord added to His body daily such as should be saved.

In Acts 17, Paul says God made all men "one blood"; a search of Scripture proves that "blood" = "Life"; therefore: all Adam is "one life" given to the firstborn at creation and passed from him, as that gift, to all his seed -the woman being supernaturally, "cloned" from his one flesh, partaking of the "one spirit" given the firstborn by the Creator [Malachi 2:15].

As we who are multiplied seed of Adam all come into our being, in his "one" "life" =one blood, and as Adam is dead "in spirit"; then we are all born "in dead Adam", in the "old man", in "the one body"; which is the ruined and forever defiled "temple", and we must be born again, by the Spirit of regeneration, to have "Life".

And this Life is in His "Son" -the Living, Only Begotten human Son of God, the Son of Man who is now the Living everlasting Father of the New Man "House" for the Father's glory to dwell in.

John 14:1-3 tells us plainly that Jesus went to the cross to make us a place fit for the Father to indwell in His glory. God does not dwell in temples made with hands".

 

[thereselittleflower]

eph, I am sorry you did not understand your Catholic faith

However, it was a common occurance this last past half a century . .




Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

eph, it is also sad that you totally ignore what is posted when it totally and clearly succeeds in demonstrating the errors you promote here . . .

Care to deal with the issue of your claim that none of the Apostles left Jerusalem, when in fact, we know they did, and where they went, and what happened to them?






Peace