What is MAD?

[eph3Nine]

LOL...well isnt this just always the case with those who ,even when presented with what they ASK for, (scriptural EVIDENCE) continue to CHOOSE to ignore it!

Well this is what happens when you choose to believe historians over the word of God. If Gods Word doesnt convince you to "change your mind" then I guess nothing will.

Another proof (not that most are interested in truth, as has already been evidenced ) is that at the Jerusalem Council, when Peter and the boys ACKNOWLEDGED Pauls unique and different gospel, they agreed to LIMIT their ministry to the CIRCUMCISION, while Paul was recognized as the one who would be going to all the other nations with the GOSPEL of the GRACE of God. Peter and the twelve knew that Israel was being set aside WITH her program and didnt argue with the fact that God had chosen to RAISE UP another apostle, NOT one of the twelve, to deliver the preaching of the Cross.

You want to have an "explanation" to suit YOUR belief system. ..when scripture gives the ONLY explanation that fits the complete revelation we have been given by GOD HIMSELF. Thats the problem with "religion" and "traditions of MEN"...they sound real "spiritual" and "churchy", but because they REFUSE to listen to Gods appointed apostle to the Church the Body of Christ, and ACKNOWLEDGE His authority, they MISS it. And that apostle isnt Peter!

 

[thereselittleflower]

I have as yet seen no credible evidence that anything you are claiming contrary to orthodox Christianity is true . . . .

Instead, I see a lot of wresting of scriptures to make them say something they do not say, and mere personal opinion . . . .

No credible evidence at all . . . . .



Peace

 

[eph3Nine]

I have as yet seen no credible evidence that anything you are claiming contrary to orthodox Christianity is true . . . .

Instead, I see a lot of wresting of scriptures to make them say something they do not say, and mere personal opinion . . . .

No credible evidence at all . . . . .



Peace

Fine...scripture is not credible evidence to you. NOW we all know it.
That leaves you with the "traditions of men". Good luck with that, and grace and peace.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Fine...scripture is not credible evidence to you. NOW we all know it.
That leaves you with the "traditions of men". Good luck with that, and grace and peace.

Again we see extremes in respone to what I say.

I did not say scripture was not credible evidence to me.

But simply presenting one's personal opinion of what its says, one's personal interpretation, is NOT credible evidence of anything other than this is that person's PERSONAL interpretation.

It does not make one's personal interprtation right. All it does is show us how this person is interpreting varioius scriptures.

If that interpretation selectively uses some scriptures while ignoring others which clearly contradict it, then there is a problem with that interpretation . . . and presenting scriptures which "appear" to support it is not providing credible evidence in any way shape or form.

It is not credible to ignore scripture which contradicts one's personal interpretation, acting a though such scriptures do not exist.


So . . . I have seen no credible evidence to support this interpretation of scripture against the beliefs and teachings of orthodox Christianity.




Peace

 

[eph3Nine]

LOL...uh huh.....NO one needs any interpretation when the scripture says that "all the jews were scattered EXCEPT THE APOSTLES."

Also, I might point out to you that the apostles were told by Jesus Himself to "go to NONE but the JEWS ONLY"....That was their commission...to go to the JEWS ONLY until they all as a nation BELIEVED.

This never happened. Why would they DISOBEY JESUS command and go to anyone BUT JEWS????? Can you explain that, please?

NO spin...no interpretation...simply the FACTS! The ONLY personal spin and interpretation being provided here is yours. Of course, we would expect that from one who believes Catholic doctrine. However, I am still holding out for a "change of mind" on your part.

My dear, you simply dont believe the Bible, unfortunately.

 

[thereselittleflower]

There is no reasoning with some.

Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. ​

I guess Jesus was being quite silly and rediculous then when He said to the Apostles:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:​

Peace

 

[eph3Nine]

There is no reasoning with some.

Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. ​

I guess Jesus was being quite silly and rediculous then when He said to the Apostles:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:​

Peace

In order to REASON, one has to have ALL the information.

Matthew reveals the program given to Peter FOR the Nation ISRAEL.It is NOT relative to the church in existance TODAY!

Since Jesus came on EARTH to the JEWS ONLY, by His own admission, then this clearly is NOT instruction to WE, the body of Christ.

They were , as a NATION, to BELIEVE IN THEIR PROMISED MESSIAH FIRST...then they were to go to all the nations. They never BELIEVED , as scripture points out quite nicely. So they never went!

Jesus' words to the twelve with regard to THIS program were by His own admonition to them, "to the LOST sheep of the House of ISRAEL" . THEY had to be saved FIRST by believing Peters gospel of "repent (change your mind about who the prophetic scriptures say IS your promised MESSIAH) and be water baptized as a DEMONSTRATION of your (ie: ISRAELs) faith.

THAT admonition was NEVER given to we , the church, which is His BODY! That BODY didnt come into EXISTANCE UNTIL AFTER Paul was saved and the MYSTERY ABOUT THE FORMATION of said "BODY" was revealed!

 

[thereselittleflower]

I do not need to keep repeating myself. Those with ears to hear will hear . . . those who don't, won't . . . .



Peace

 

[eph3Nine]

In order to REASON, one has to have ALL the information.

Matthew reveals the program given to Peter FOR the Nation ISRAEL.It is NOT relative to the church in existance TODAY!

Since Jesus came on EARTH to the JEWS ONLY, by His own admission, then this clearly is NOT instruction to WE, the body of Christ.

They were , as a NATION, to BELIEVE IN THEIR PROMISED MESSIAH FIRST...then they were to go to all the nations. They never BELIEVED , as scripture points out quite nicely. So they never went!

Jesus' words to the twelve with regard to THIS program were by His own admonition to them, "to the LOST sheep of the House of ISRAEL" . THEY had to be saved FIRST by believing Peters gospel of "repent (change your mind about who the prophetic scriptures say IS your promised MESSIAH) and be water baptized as a DEMONSTRATION of your (ie: ISRAELs) faith.

THAT admonition was NEVER given to we , the church, which is His BODY! That BODY didnt come into EXISTANCE UNTIL AFTER Paul was saved and the MYSTERY ABOUT THE FORMATION of said "BODY" was revealed!

This is information on which we will be judged and rewarded for heeding.

I guess some arent interested in being rewarded for being a steward of the mysteries that God has entrusted to us.

 

[biblebeliever123]

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This is the judgement seat of Christ... and it pertains only to those who are in the body of Christ...those who have believed the good news that Christ died for your sins, was buried, and rose again for your justification. Believing that good news you are placed into his death, burial, and resurrection, placed into Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise until the day of redemption, and blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places.
(1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.)

The believer will be judged for his works which must be on the right foundation....that given to the wise masterbuilder, the apostle Paul...that body of truth given to him by the risen, ascended Lord from glory...The Lord SPOKE AGAIN...his final words are not found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)
The believer will be rewarded or suffer loss of reward(wood hay stubble) which will burn, but yet the person is still saved.
The unbeliever also faces a judgement and that judgement will also be for their works....but their works will not save them. That is the great white throne found in
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Knowing the terror of the Lord we persuade men. Be ye reconciled to God...believe what He did for you at the cross and by the cross...He accomplished your salvation. Trust that good news and be saved from the wrath to come.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Tell me Eph . . where does it say that this situation continued for the life of all the apostles?


What is spoken of here is in relationship to a specific time frame, when Saul was prescuting the Church at Jerusalem.

This is the only time frame that this verse has in mind.

It has no other time frame in mind, and does not tell us about other time frames.


We know that John went to Ephesus. . . so there is one Apostle who did not stay in Jerusalem.


And I have posted historical information as to where the others went ..


This hyper-literalist, narrow construing of scripture and wresting it to make it say what you want is forbidden in the bible and warned against strongly.


Using the techinique you just used I could make the bible say "There is no God" . . . .



Peace

Hi thereselittleflower,
You are correct.
Eph3nine is not correct.


Act 8:1¶And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
...
Act 8:2
And devout men carried Stephen [to his burial], and made great lamentation over him.
...
Act 8:5
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
...
Act 8:14¶Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17
Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:25
And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Samaritans are Gentiles.

And this is of just one small time frame; and the Church, consisting of all born again Believers who were disciples of Jesus Christ, went everywhere preaching the Gospel after the martyrdom of Stephen.

And "everywhere" is "everywhere", and Paul said the Gospel was preached to every creature under heaven in his own time, and Paul did not go to every creature under heaven, and not many of the disciples ever met Paul and never would follow Paul -nor should they- but Gentiles became Believers "everywhere" from the "beginning" and did not become Jews; like those who were born again who heard Peter preach in Caeserea, when Peter was sent to them -from Joppa!
Joppa is not Jerusalem, and Peter was there evangelizing!

Acts 9:32¶And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all [quarters], he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.
So we have two reports in Acts of Peter going to Gentiles, the Macedonians and the Samaritans. preaching the Gospel.

These reports are not the sum total of every evangelistic move of Peter's, nor are many of the Apostles or disciples evangelizing reported -but they turned the world upside down -that we do know!
-and Joppa was not in Israel, proper.

Also, Paul makes a mention of the evangelizing trips of the Apostles who were married and took their wives with them -as sisters in the LORD -but as their wives, yes.

1Cr 9:5
Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

<edited SJ>

 

[eph3Nine]

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This is the judgement seat of Christ... and it pertains only to those who are in the body of Christ...those who have believed the good news that Christ died for your sins, was buried, and rose again for your justification. Believing that good news you are placed into his death, burial, and resurrection, placed into Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise until the day of redemption, and blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places.

(1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.)

The believer will be judged for his works which must be on the right foundation....that given to the wise masterbuilder, the apostle Paul...that body of truth given to him by the risen, ascended Lord from glory...The Lord SPOKE AGAIN...his final words are not found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)

The believer will be rewarded or suffer loss of reward(wood hay stubble) which will burn, but yet the person is still saved.

The unbeliever also faces a judgement and that judgement will also be for their works....but their works will not save them. That is the great white throne found in :
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Knowing the terror of the Lord we persuade men. Be ye reconciled to God...believe what He did for you at the cross and by the cross...He accomplished your salvation. Trust that good news and be saved from the wrath to come.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

AAAAmen BB...Excellent post!

 

[yeshuasavedme]

There is no reasoning with some.

Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. ​

I guess Jesus was being quite silly and rediculous then when He said to the Apostles:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:​

Peace

Jesus meant it, though, we know, and anyone who does not obey Jesus is not going to inherit the kingdom of God, which is the kingdom of heaven, which is the kingdom of His Dear Son, which is the kingdom of Christ: which are all one and the same Kingdom.

His Gospel includes water baptism of those who claim His name.

Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1Pe 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obeynot the gospel of God?

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

To know Jesus is to obey Jesus.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Playing games seems to be the main excercise of a certain person on this forum who dotes about words, repeating the same select words over and over in many duplicate posts, who bumps all legitimate discussion out of site with the multitoudinous replicating posts.

 

[eph3Nine]

The believer will be judged for his works which must be on the right foundation....that given to the wise masterbuilder, the apostle Paul...that body of truth given to him by the risen, ascended Lord from glory...The Lord SPOKE AGAIN...his final words are not found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)

The believer will be rewarded or suffer loss of reward(wood hay stubble) which will burn, but yet the person is still saved.

The unbeliever also faces a judgement and that judgement will also be for their works....but their works will not save them. That is the great white throne found in :
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Knowing the terror of the Lord we persuade men. Be ye reconciled to God...believe what He did for you at the cross and by the cross...He accomplished your salvation. Trust that good news and be saved from the wrath to come.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[biblebeliever123]

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
Acts 17:4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
Acts 17:5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
Acts 17:6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;
(paul and silas, these that have turned the world upside down)