What is L.O.V.E.? (Matthew 22:36-40)

[iwbswiaihl2]

love one another- - - - - - - and by this shall all men know that you are my disciple(John 13:35)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So what about you? Is love hard to define for you, still? Or would you say that Christ has cleared it up?

Personally, I'm not going to claim that I've gotten my mind fully around what God Himself has presented to humanity about love; for me to do so would probably be tenditious and somewhat presumptive. But, I will say that with Christ in the picture, I have a much better idea about what God is asking us to do.

And what about Paul's list in 1 Corinthians 13? Confusion or clarification?

It would be fair to say that Paul's writing on love, as we find it in examples like the one you've cited, aid us in assimilating God's kind of love within our minds and (hopefully) our hearts, as do the writings of the other New Testament authors (apostles, disciples, etc.).

The problem that remains is this little thing called sin that seems to rear its head from time to time and trip us up in our daily attempts to follow through ...

 

[GosDontez]

and since this is Christian love we're talking about

This suggests other (religious, philosophical, etc) loves. If so, then would the verbs/actions part of these (other) loves be different than the nouns/emotions part?

(I am aware of the dynamic, thus not assigning a ratio, in your reply....but...)

 

[GosDontez]

love one another- - - - - - - and by this shall all men know that you are my disciple(John 13:35)

Hey there. Welcome to the discussion.

Would you elaborate on what you think love is?

In 3 words or less, without using love to define love, what is love to you?

Trust me, there is a method to this madness!!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This suggests other (religious, philosophical, etc) loves. If so, then would the verbs/actions part of these (other) loves be different than the nouns/emotions part?

(I am aware of the dynamic, thus not assigning a ratio, in your reply....but...)

Sure, there are other forms of 'love,' and with this being the case, it can also add to the psycho-social confusion people have about it all. If we just look at the ancient Greek mindset, for instance, we can see that in addition to Agape love, there are three other forms of love--and all four of these are what C.S. Lewis expounds upon in his book, aptly titled, "the Four Loves." However, this link I found concisely captures the essence of these entities Lewis talks about, so don't worry, you don't have to plunk any money down to reel all of this in. Besides, this may be stuff that you already know...

So, as to your question, these other verb/actions would have various, but interconnected, nouns and emotions.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

...actually, here's a website that expands upon the Greek take on love, and in it we see 6 words for love.

The Ancient Greeks’ 6 Words for Love (And Why Knowing Them Can Change Your Life)

 

[GosDontez]

Personally, I'm not going to claim that I've gotten my mind fully around what God Himself has presented to humanity about love; for me to do so would probably be tenditious and somewhat presumptive.

Ok, why does it sound like fear in this statement? A fear of boasting, maybe?

You have been expounding on this love concept, efficiently, in my opinion. Sounds like you got a good grasp and are clear on what love is.

Maybe I should "listen" to this reply more, but how does it make sense after all your expositions?

Of all "people", don't you think God would want for us to be clear on what love is?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ok, why does it sound like fear in this statement? A fear of boasting, maybe?

You have been expounding on this love concept, efficiently, in my opinion. Sounds like you got a good grasp and are clear on what love is.

Maybe I should "listen" to this reply more, but how does it make sense after all your expositions?

Of all "people", don't you think God would want for us to be clear on what love is?

Basically, I realize that not only am I not an ordained minister, it also is not really up to me to pontificate on what is "official" about the Christian faith. Moreover, I know my own human limits, as well as my own personal failures in my [multiple] attempts through life to emulate Christ. It would be great to say that "I ... have ... arrived!!!" But, Bruce Almighty I am not. And as Jesus and the apostles make clear as well, boasting of one's accomplishments isn't a godly thing to do; in fact, it might even be unloving if taken too far. With this checkered track history that speckles my past, I also realize that I need to hold my Narcissism down as much as possible.

However, I do appreciate your compliment about my apparent "efficiency." I do try to be helpful, and I don't even charge for it.

 

[GosDontez]

Sure, there are other forms of 'love,' and with this being the case, it can also add to the psycho-social confusion people have about it all. If we just look at the ancient Greek mindset, for instance, we can see that in addition to Agape love, there are three other forms of love--and all four of these are what C.S. Lewis expounds upon in his book, aptly titled, "the Four Loves." However, this link I found concisely captures the essence of these entities Lewis talks about, so don't worry, you don't have to plunk any money down to reel all of this in. Besides, this may be stuff that you already know...

So, as to your question, these other verb/actions would have various, but interconnected, nouns and emotions.

I've been doing a study on love, capturing responses to the question, "What is love to you in 3 words or less?" Oh, did I get some responses. (If interested in seeing them, lemme know.)

But after a while, I put a "definition" together to sum up those responses. Critique it, will you?

"Love is a deep, caring, and passionate affection for someone or something based on some form of attraction or relational connection."

And I have reasons for why I chose this set of words in this sequence.

But break it down in your own way, then reply with your critique. You have a keen mind. (There, some fog around your ankles....lol)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I've been doing a study on love, capturing responses to the question, "What is love to you in 3 words or less?" Oh, did I get some responses. (If interested in seeing them, lemme know.)

But after a while, I put a "definition" together to sum up those responses. Critique it, will you?

"Love is a deep, caring, and passionate affection for someone or something based on some form of attraction or relational connection."

And I have reasons for why I chose this set of words in this sequence.

But break it down in your own way, then reply with your critique. You have a keen mind. (There, some fog around your ankles....lol)

ok. Without getting into the nature of various kinds of defining that can be done, I'll just question whether we want to say that Love is an affection that requires passion. For instance, let's say a man and wife have been married for 40 years, but the wife is now crippled and unable to make love. However, as it turns out, the husband has in reality been faithful to her regardless of her circumstance, and his love can still be characterized as deep and caring. See, in this instance, there is ambiguity in the concept of passion. Is it physical or sexual passion that is involved, or is the passion an emotional index that is really describing the quality of the depth and care of the love? And who can really measure this other than God Himself? The trick is, we want to be able to place the definition next to the referent by which we can say, "Hey, that guy's love--matches--this definition, and thus we know that what he has is love." The overall problem is, we're wanting to measure something that is ambiguous and really not measurable by us, or at least not completely.

So, there's one problem, as I see it.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[GosDontez]

So, there's one problem, as I see it.

2PhiloVoid

Ok....keep going. And how many more problems "does you see"?

(I'm taking notes. This is good stuff. [MORE smoke for your ankles....lol])

P.S. So you know, I'm not being sarcastic with "the smoke". But somehow I think you know that already.

P.S.S. But just in case...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ok....keep going. And how many more problems "does you see"?

...I'll tell you if you'll deliver to me one big, piping hot Supreme pizza, and some drinks, along with an appetite....'cuz you're going to have to help me eat it while you also help me figure it all out. You see, there's this thing I'm going to call the insuperable problem of God's nature, and we'll need some food while we're deliberating over how it all relates to defining godly love.

(I'm taking notes. This is good stuff. [MORE smoke for your ankles....lol])

P.S. So you know, I'm not being sarcastic with "the smoke". But somehow I think you know that already.

P.S.S. But just in case...

No, I get it. But don't worry. If and when I've ever been around smoke, I don't inhale. [Yes, I know. That's what they all say ... ]

 

[razzelflabben]

Heeeyyyyyy, razzel's back! I'm all giddy!

And that analogy was for me. Ouch! Love sure does cause pain.

(Now on to my critique of this reply.)

razzelflabben, as a human affected by the fruited knowledge of good and evil, you make sense to me. Most of your replies don't, but you do.

Because of your replies, I am convinced you have a foggy idea of what love is. You keep trying to separate the noun from the verb and I'm convinced that's the problem.

With you being a teacher, I'm afraid for your students.

You seem to not like the definition of Love that has been given so my husband and I were talking about your thread and your responses to that end we came up with a 4 word definition if you like it better?!

Biblical Love is...The Humility of Christ

 

[razzelflabben]

Non-Christian Humans - their version of love...

Plus...

God - His version of Love...

Equals = Confusion, thus hard to define?

Would you agree?

The non Biblical love is a strong positive emotional response to something...I already said that, I wonder how or why you missed it.

Biblical Love is a very different thing indeed which I also said and you either accidentally or purposefully missed. It is NOT confusion at all but rather order but it is hard to define because it is supernatural. In fact, we are currently teaching the specific examples given in scripture for how to love in our relationships...a very orderly thing that can easily be taught.

 

[razzelflabben]

So what about you? Is love hard to define for you, still? Or would you say that Christ has cleared it up?

And what about Paul's list in 1 Corinthians 13? Confusion or clarification?

Personally I wish you would ask some good hard questions. The problem as I see it is that you refuse to hear what is actually answered therefore your questions are non sense because they don't reflect any understanding...so let's do this again...Just because Biblical Love is difficult to define does NOT mean that it is confusing or hard to understand or identify. Think about it this way...how would you define the color Red to a blind man, or the taste of oranges to someone who never tasted one? Defining something does not equal difficulty in understanding nor does it mean confusion but rather is simply means it's hard to define.

 

[razzelflabben]

I've been doing a study on love, capturing responses to the question, "What is love to you in 3 words or less?" Oh, did I get some responses. (If interested in seeing them, lemme know.)

But after a while, I put a "definition" together to sum up those responses. Critique it, will you?

"Love is a deep, caring, and passionate affection for someone or something based on some form of attraction or relational connection."

And I have reasons for why I chose this set of words in this sequence.

But break it down in your own way, then reply with your critique. You have a keen mind. (There, some fog around your ankles....lol)

why do you restrict us to 3 words when you yourself refuse to adhere to the same?

 

[GosDontez]

ok. Without getting into the nature of various kinds of defining that can be done, I'll just question whether we want to say that Love is an affection that requires passion.

So, there's one problem, as I see it.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Requires passion? Yes! Emphatically! Here's why I think it does, and you hinted at the very reason why...

"...the various kinds of defining that can be done..."

THIS, to me is the problem. But in the immortal words of the Oracle from the Matrix movie series, "we'll get to that".

Love is an affection that requires passion because it's superfluous, obsessive, and extraordinary. Case in point, the man you mentioned. Look at what he's willing and driven to do.

It's also required because of the other side of word definitions. Meaning most, (if not all) have at least two ways to look at it.

I used 3 words, but extra-ordinary is my main focus. People do ordinary things when they are in "like" mode, but in "love" mode.....EXTRA-ordinary. This has been my observation.

This is why I used "...deep, caring, and passionate..." in my observational definition. 3 words that together are superfluous, obsessive, and extraordinary.

But....what say you?

 

[GosDontez]

You seem to not like the definition of Love that has been given...

I know it seems that way, but it just seems. Because, things are not always as they seem. I (dare I say?) loved the definition given. Assuming you're speaking of the one you and your husband came up with, you basically just said in another way what Paul describes in his list.

AND, you proved my definition is valid and thus, no problem with it.

I say this because you have been "...deep, caring, and passionate..." with your "attraction" to this thread and our "relational connection" as fellow humans and especially, fellow Christians.

But, I could be delusional....so what say you?

 

[GosDontez]

The non Biblical love is a strong positive emotional response to something...I already said that, I wonder how or why you missed it.

Oh, I didn't. Because I used the words, "deep, caring..." in my observational defiinition. (Perhaps it's you who missed. So you might wanna stop swinging when you're provoked. Wait........for it.........next time. )

But I have also observed that the "non Biblical love" response is also.....negative. Because there is no rage or even the smallest amount of anger without seriously caring. (You proved that, also. Otherwise, you NEVER would have gotten frustrated with me. Because you wouldn't have felt anything, thus, you wouldn't have cared. ) And if love is anything....it's caring.

It just depends on the object of the care.

 

[razzelflabben]

Oh, I didn't. Because I used the words, "deep, caring..." in my observational defiinition. (Perhaps it's you who missed. So you might wanna stop swinging when you're provoked. Wait........for it.........next time. )

you missed it dear friend...I said the worldly defition not the biblical one. There are two kinds of love being discussed in this thread and you don't seem able to grasp that concept. The first is worldly love...now worldly love is easily defined as you or I either one presented a fair enough definition. But worldly love fails, it is not stable, it doesn't even come close to the Biblical Love that I and others are trying to talk to you about.

In fact, everyone is seeking Biblical Love but they don't even know or realize they are. They know it when they see it but seldom open their eyes to look for it because they already believe it does not exist. They can't or won't define it or even attempt to as you demonstrate in your posts because it is as I previously stated supernatural thus outside their understanding. I could go on but hopefully you get the picture. I did not miss anything in your post but you missed a lot in mine.

But I have also observed that the "non Biblical love" response is also.....negative. Because there is no rage or the smallest amount of anger without seriously caring. And if love is anything....it's caring. (You proved that, also. )

Many people believe that the opposite of Love is hate which is straight up wrong. The opposite of Love (capitol to distinguish between worldly love and Biblical Love) is pride. We see that in both of the definitions I gave you for Biblical Love. So yes, Love does care and it is compassionate and a host of other things but those do not define it, they only tell us what to look for when we seek Love.

It just depends on the object of the care.

Now, let me present you with a challenge. Why don't you ask some tough questions about love and Love and compare the two so that you can learn the difference? Tough questions like...where does love/Love come from? How does it change us? Why do we want it so bad? What tells me when I see it? You know, tough questions, like what is it's power? How can it make us better people? Why is Love the benchmark of Christianity and not love? Why are believers identified by their Love? How can someone Love their enemies? The list goes on and on and I would suggest to you that knowing how the two loves differ might bring clarity to what you have been told.