What is it to be a True Believer?

Freth · Dec 17, 2024

Neogaia777 said:
Those are really very good words, and I thoroughly enjoyed them, but are you sure it's not just sometimes lip service for some of the SDA church, or for some of the professed followers of Jesus Christ?

Do you really think that just only one denominational sect has it all 100% completely right, and none of others don't ever, or do not ever, maybe even have just even one thing right, etc?

If so ever, or if not ever, then just what exactly is it that we are all always supposed to make sure we always get/have/keep 100% right?

Christ's Object Lessons (the book) is freely available online. Anyone can pull it up and do a quick search for "Adventism" or "Adventist". There are zero results. There are however mentions of the first and second advents of Jesus, scripturally sound subjects. If what she wrote is scripturally sound and unbiased, then I would say no, it is not paying lip service to any denomination, not even my own. I would submit that this is indeed the case, not only with Christ's Object Lessons, but many more of her books that are unbiased, addressing all readers, not Adventism specifically. And yes, she has written much on counsels for our church specifically.

I didn't mention denomination anywhere in my post.

Neogaia777 · Dec 17, 2024

Freth said:
Christ's Object Lessons (the book) is freely available online. Anyone can pull it up and do a quick search for "Adventism" or "Adventist". There are zero results. There are however mentions of the first and second advents of Jesus, scripturally sound subjects. If what she wrote is scripturally sound and unbiased, then I would say no, it is not paying lip service to any denomination, not even my own. I would submit that this is indeed the case, not only with Christ's Object Lessons, but many more of her books that are unbiased, addressing all readers, not Adventism specifically. And yes, she has written much on counsels for our church specifically.

I didn't mention denomination anywhere in my post.

I was familiar with Ellen White being one of the founders of the SDA church, but I also don't think (or rather, I don't know, but it's not what I was thinking) I wasn't questioning her own individual personal commitment to God, or the Bible, or Jesus Christ, etc. She herself sounds pretty sound in both her words, and in her beliefs/commitments to Jesus Christ, even though I don't (and can't) say or know for sure, etc, but I wasn't questioning her own individual personal commitment to Jesus Christ, etc. And when I used the words "lip service" I was only thinking about only some of her many believes/followers today, etc, who might only quote or try to use her own words as if they fully expressed their own individual personal commitment to Jesus Christ, etc. And only In that I wondered if some (but maybe not all) of them might only try to use it as trying to pay some kind of quote/unquote "lip service" to Jesus Christ, but I also wasn't referring to all of them though, and I was asking you about that maybe, etc? If you are SDA, then that's fine, I'm not judging you personally, etc, as I fully believe Jesus only true followers nowadays are always going to be "some from all groups, but not all from any group" nowadays, if you can maybe understand what I am saying, or what I mean by that, etc, which is the way God wants it right now currently, etc, maybe to test us, or further refine us maybe, I don't know, etc, but I do know that's the way God wants it before the end of the age right now currently nowadays, etc. He seems to be all about individuals and individual members nowadays, etc.

Anyway, I do like what you quoted, and I might look into the book you mentioned, or maybe more from or about Ellen White maybe, etc.

God Bless.

timothyu · Dec 17, 2024

Neogaia777 said:
I fully believe Jesus only true followers nowadays are always going to be "some from all groups, but not all from any group" nowadays,

This is most like true. Babel has been applied to the religion.

Injeun · Dec 17, 2024

partinobodycular said:
I understand the sentiment, but perhaps a kinder tone might be more effective. After all, it's not the church that needs your outreach, it's the people in them, and for the most part their intentions are good.

Focus on those you can reach, and don't be distracted by those you can't. Like the poor the Sanhedrin will always be there.

I get your point. But as I see it, the work of salvation is to those appointed to it by God. That's why I'm opposed to the falsehood parading as Christianity as if it were the work of God to save men.

timothyu · Dec 17, 2024

Injeun said:
That's why I'm opposed to the falsehood parading as Christianity as if it were the work of God to save men.

You may have a point, but it's come this far, bringing the scriptures with it for those with eyes to read, so it has done it's job, no? Just because people are associated with the name Christian doesn't mean they are automatically right.

Astrid · Dec 18, 2024

timothyu said:
Does one believe our will of self service and determination is best, or is it God's will of servitude to each other?

That question is meaningless to me, sorry.

Astrid · Dec 18, 2024

partinobodycular said:
For me the "there" there is found in Micah 6:8... do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with thy God. If you're content with doing these three things, then what other signs, titles, or accolades could a Christian possibly need?

Now some might say that it's impossible for a non-Christian to fulfill the last of the three... walking humbly with thy God... to which I wholeheartedly agree, but I also believe that in fulfilling the first two, one has already fulfilled the third, and that makes them... a Christian.

1 Corinthians 13:13 "So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

Some do claim that only those of
their particular faith are capable of virtue.

“walk humbly with god” has no meaning to me.

Justice and mercy are of course traditional
Chinese virtues

Injeun · Dec 18, 2024

timothyu said:
You may have a point, but it's come this far, bringing the scriptures with it for those with eyes to read, so it has done it's job, no? Just because people are associated with the name Christian doesn't mean they are automatically right.

I'd say that the printing press and mass production did more to spread the scriptures unfiltered by the lens of this or that denomination than did the religion. On the other hand, the religion formed and allied with powerful governments, not long after the deaths of Jesus's Apostles, and proceeded to conquer the nations of the earth in the name of God, which is a far cry from Jesus quaint gospel of repentance and Gods admonition to Adam and Eve to subdue the earth and make it plentiful. Our founding fathers declared their independence from the unholy alliance of the Church and government of England. Then they ensured our religious liberty in the first amendment, not to preserve us from Atheism or ignorance, but from the falsehood parading around as Christianity. So that we might find and worship God in truth.

timothyu · Dec 18, 2024

Injeun said:
On the other hand, the religion formed and allied with powerful governments, not long after the deaths of Jesus's Apostles,

That's right. They abandoned the Kingdom of God for the kingdoms of man, falling back into the world

Injeun · Dec 19, 2024

timothyu said:
That's right. They abandoned the Kingdom of God for the kingdoms of man, falling back into the world

So the work of God ceased. And the religion which parades as Christianity today is a disconnected reflection or image of the former. Because God isn't the head of it, it is divided into tens of thousands of differing denominations, each with its own head or heads, which are simply men and another validation that God isn't the head, neither in doctrine nor spirit.

timothyu · Dec 19, 2024

Injeun said:
So the work of God ceased.

I wouldn't say ceased. The sanctioned religion partnered with the world of man rather than remain a counter-culture, yes. However, scripture remained alive and was forwarded through them. God knows how to use even adversaries for His own purpose.

Freth · Dec 20, 2024

Neogaia777 said:
I was familiar with Ellen White being one of the founders of the SDA church, but I also don't think (or rather, I don't know, but it's not what I was thinking) I wasn't questioning her own individual personal commitment to God, or the Bible, or Jesus Christ, etc. She herself sounds pretty sound in both her words, and in her beliefs/commitments to Jesus Christ, even though I don't (and can't) say or know for sure, etc, but I wasn't questioning her own individual personal commitment to Jesus Christ, etc. And when I used the words "lip service" I was only thinking about only some of her many believes/followers today, etc, who might only quote or try to use her own words as if they fully expressed their own individual personal commitment to Jesus Christ, etc. And only In that I wondered if some (but maybe not all) of them might only try to use it as trying to pay some kind of quote/unquote "lip service" to Jesus Christ, but I also wasn't referring to all of them though, and I was asking you about that maybe, etc?

The quote from Ellen essentially mentions lip service: "No mere theory of truth or profession of discipleship will save any soul."

My goal was to provide a thorough answer to the OP's question. You're welcome to draw your own conclusions.

Neogaia777 said:
If you are SDA, then that's fine, I'm not judging you personally, etc, as I fully believe Jesus only true followers nowadays are always going to be "some from all groups, but not all from any group" nowadays, if you can maybe understand what I am saying, or what I mean by that, etc, which is the way God wants it right now currently, etc, maybe to test us, or further refine us maybe, I don't know, etc, but I do know that's the way God wants it before the end of the age right now currently nowadays, etc. He seems to be all about individuals and individual members nowadays, etc.

Anyway, I do like what you quoted, and I might look into the book you mentioned, or maybe more from or about Ellen White maybe, etc.

God Bless.

I am SDA, yes. I agree. God's people are found everywhere, in various groups and denominations.

God bless!

Fyrewulf · Dec 20, 2024

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of light; true God of true God; begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father; by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from Heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man. And He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried. And the third day He arose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; Whose Kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father; Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; Who spoke by the prophets.

In one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.

d taylor · Dec 20, 2024

Astrid said:
I hear this term- what does it mean?

-

It means it is a man (or human) contrived word combination that is not found in The Bible. When or where The Bible is speaking about people who have believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

The Bible simply states the born again children of God (in The Bible) are believers and does not use true believers.

How can a person believe something and then some person come along and try and say. Well you do not really believe, because you have not done this or that, blah blah blah...

David Lamb · Dec 20, 2024

Injeun said:
So the work of God ceased. And the religion which parades as Christianity today is a disconnected reflection or image of the former. Because God isn't the head of it, it is divided into tens of thousands of differing denominations, each with its own head or heads, which are simply men and another validation that God isn't the head, neither in doctrine nor spirit.

That's too great a generalisation, in my view. Yes, there are many who call themselves Christians, and groups calling themselves churches, who sadly seem to hold to all sorts of unbiblical beliefs. However, praise God, there are still churches and individual Christians who do base their beliefs and practices on God's Word. To say that none do is a gross exaggeration, and something which you cannot possibly know, unless you have a personal knowledge of everybody in the world who claims to be a Christian, and every group in the world claiming to be a Christian church.

timothyu · Dec 20, 2024

In seeking God we grow. That means that the religion of ages ago, unless transcending itself, is no longer relevant. What was once a religion that used fear and persecution to maintain its power grew into a religion that uses salesmanship along with a degree of the past to grow. The idea, the movement that Jesus started required neither. Its simplicity is what made it universal and accessible to all, free of human allegiances and labels. Jesus' movement is a way of life practicable by all in the world, not a restrictive or defining religion.

Injeun · Dec 20, 2024

David Lamb said:
That's too great a generalisation, in my view. Yes, there are many who call themselves Christians, and groups calling themselves churches, who sadly seem to hold to all sorts of unbiblical beliefs. However, praise God, there are still churches and individual Christians who do base their beliefs and practices on God's Word. To say that none do is a gross exaggeration, and something which you cannot possibly know, unless you have a personal knowledge of everybody in the world who claims to be a Christian, and every group in the world claiming to be a Christian church.

They are nonetheless captives of organized deceit. Everyone everywhere can do some goodness. But to say that a religion with tens of thousands of different gospels, Christs, and Gods as evidenced by the many denominations in bible based religion, is somehow united in and representative of Christ when it is clearly not, is a slap to intellect.

Some people counterfeit everything from watches to works of art. But to attempt to counterfeit the divine and meddle in the salvation of our very souls, isn't a small matter. The bible isn't God. It's a view into the workings of his ancient Church and people. It isn't an invitation to the world to climb in and make it their own, anymore than a mans life is an invitation to demonic possession.

Where in bible based religion is the honor for the God to whom the bible points? Shouldn't one seek God rather than his habitation, and his favor rather than his crown? If the bible is holy, why do wicked men take it up and make of it what they will, and then anoint themselves Christians. Truth isn't in the saying of a thing, but in the spirit. Otherwise the devil could declare himself God and it be so.

David Lamb · Dec 21, 2024

Injeun said:
They are nonetheless captives of organized deceit. Everyone everywhere can do some goodness. But to say that a religion with tens of thousands of different gospels, Christs, and Gods as evidenced by the many denominations in bible based religion, is somehow united in and representative of Christ when it is clearly not, is a slap to intellect.

Some people counterfeit everything from watches to works of art. But to attempt to counterfeit the divine and meddle in the salvation of our very souls, isn't a small matter. The bible isn't God. It's a view into the workings of his ancient Church and people. It isn't an invitation to the world to climb in and make it their own, anymore than a mans life is an invitation to demonic possession.

Where in bible based religion is the honor for the God to whom the bible points? Shouldn't one seek God rather than his habitation, and his favor rather than his crown? If the bible is holy, why do wicked men take it up and make of it what they will, and then anoint themselves Christians. Truth isn't in the saying of a thing, but in the spirit. Otherwise the devil could declare himself God and it be so.

I agree, and so does my church and many other churches, that to attempt to counterfeit the divine is totally wrong. I still say that you are being too general. I'm not saying that any church or individual Christian is perfect, but neither are they "captives of organized deceit." As I wrote before, such thinking is a gross exaggeration, and something which you cannot possibly know, unless you have a personal knowledge of everybody in the world who claims to be a Christian, and every group in the world claiming to be a Christian church.

Aaron112 · Dec 21, 2024

Have you ever found a Bible Based Assembly.? For Real ......

Injeun said:
Where in bible based religion is the honor for the God to whom the bible points?

Astrid · Dec 21, 2024

David Lamb said:
I agree, and so does my church and many other churches, that to attempt to counterfeit the divine is totally wrong. I still say that you are being too general. I'm not saying that any church or individual Christian is perfect, but neither are they "captives of organized deceit." As I wrote before, such thinking is a gross exaggeration, and something which you cannot possibly know, unless you have a personal knowledge of everybody in the world who claims to be a Christian, and every group in the world claiming to be a Christian church.

“Captives of organized deceit” includes all who think the flood story is literally true.

How wrong does something have to BE to
qualify for “ totally wrong” in your estimation?

What is it to be a True Believer?

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