What is it to be a True Believer?

[Astrid]

It took a while, but I am beginning to see the purpose of your thread.

Nothing bad I hope.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ok…?

I'm pretty sure that Paul was a true believer and an authentic Christian. I think Richard Wurmbrand was a well.

 

[timothyu]

Ok…?

Where There's a Will

Where there is a will... it is usually our way. God said that His church would be based on only truth from the Father, and not from mankind. No middlemen needed adding their truths or creating more theology and promoting their denominations as if...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Neogaia777]

In Christianity, a true believer might be one who believes Peter's statement that Jesus is the Messiah, rather than to know for ones own self of the truth, and have fellowship with Peter in Christ. They hope to be sneaked into heaven on borrowed oil. And so in all, it is to believe in the biblical testimony rather than to know the God of whom it speaks or to whom it points. But what do they actually know beyond what is written? They have crafted from the biblical testimony what a Christian ought to be. And lo and behold it is like unto themselves. They have appointed themselves Gods representatives, keepers of the gate. But there is no God there beside them. So they are keepers of nothing. In modern Christianity, that is a true believer. So if the bible is a record of what was. Then modern Christianity is a staged reenactment, no different than a Hollywood movie, with actors reading from scripts, who've come to believe they are actually Christians whom they pretend to be. What do they care what God thinks or says? They have seized his place and made themselves God. They have elected themselves to Gods service as if to dispossess God of his free agency to choose his own servants. Yet they claim to love and honor God. Is it to love and honor God by bullying him. They say that the bible is the end of Gods work, and that he can say and do no more. It is to them now to advance his gospel. In this they have in effect silenced God and bound him with ropes. Again is this how one honors and loves ones God? Were God to come speaking and doing more, they would reject him. What then is God to do but to restore his true Church and authority elsewhere, by another avenue, seeing that men have corrupted his first Church.

I very much understand your venting about his church, and many of the people in it/leading it, and I'm sure you're not alone on here about that, etc.

God Bless.

 

[David Lamb]

In Christianity, a true believer might be one who believes Peter's statement that Jesus is the Messiah, rather than to know for ones own self of the truth, and have fellowship with Peter in Christ. They hope to be sneaked into heaven on borrowed oil. And so in all, it is to believe in the biblical testimony rather than to know the God of whom it speaks or to whom it points. But what do they actually know beyond what is written? They have crafted from the biblical testimony what a Christian ought to be. And lo and behold it is like unto themselves. They have appointed themselves Gods representatives, keepers of the gate. But there is no God there beside them. So they are keepers of nothing. In modern Christianity, that is a true believer. So if the bible is a record of what was. Then modern Christianity is a staged reenactment, no different than a Hollywood movie, with actors reading from scripts, who've come to believe they are actually Christians whom they pretend to be. What do they care what God thinks or says? They have seized his place and made themselves God. They have elected themselves to Gods service as if to dispossess God of his free agency to choose his own servants. Yet they claim to love and honor God. Is it to love and honor God by bullying him. They say that the bible is the end of Gods work, and that he can say and do no more. It is to them now to advance his gospel. In this they have in effect silenced God and bound him with ropes. Again is this how one honors and loves ones God? Were God to come speaking and doing more, they would reject him. What then is God to do but to restore his true Church and authority elsewhere, by another avenue, seeing that men have corrupted his first Church.

If "They hope to be sneaked into heaven on borrowed oil," they are not true believers, in other words, they are not saved people.

 

[Astrid]

If "They hope to be sneaked into heaven on borrowed oil," they are not true believers, in other words, they are not saved people.b

A true believer is defined as one who has been saved?

 

[David Lamb]

A true believer is defined as one who has been saved?

I don't know that I would define true believer that way, but if a person truly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, the bible says they are saved.

 

[Astrid]

I don't know that I would define true believer that way, but if a person truly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, the bible says they are saved.

Thread asks what a true believer is.

 

[timothyu]

Does not someone who believes on Jesus also believe what He taught about the Kingdom and the backwards ways of mankind, teaching repentance of the self serving ways man is prone to, in order to find salvation in the new Kingdom to come, that Kingdom the gift from God?

 

[Injeun]

If "They hope to be sneaked into heaven on borrowed oil," they are not true believers, in other words, they are not saved people.

Such is all bible based religion, parading as Christianity, as if it were united in Christ. But when has God declared of the religion, "these are my people and Church"? Never has God said this. It is the people and Church's themselves who say it of themselves. They wave the bible and say it is their validation, as if the bible were God, rather than a testimony of God. And if they know the bible is true, then why do they all know it differently among the tens of thousands of denominations, each with its own interpretation and understanding. There is only one gospel, Christ, and God. Yet the religion which men have made from it is a hydra.

 

[Injeun]

I don't know that I would define true believer that way, but if a person truly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, the bible says they are saved.

That would depend on ones interpretation of the bible versus knowledge of the truth and the purpose for its existence. For instance, according to the same bible, one must actually be known by God to be saved. As evidence I present the Grooms words to the five foolish virgins whose oil was borrowed and who were shut out: "I know you not". (Matthew 25) As well as Jesus words to the many who come to him in the day of judgment, speaking of all they had done in his name. He said: "I never knew you. Depart from me ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:22-23) There is also Jesus saying there is no eternal life in the scriptures: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." (John 5:39-40)

So there is a major and crucial disconnect between traditional Christianity and the truth or reality of God. Christians hear what they want and ignore these red flags of warning. How is it then not part and parcel to the broad easy way outside the straight and narrow.

 

[partinobodycular]

Thread asks what a true believer is.

Perhaps the more important question is... how are we to tell a true believer from someone who merely proclaims to be a true believer?

 

[timothyu]

Isn't this God's job?

 

[partinobodycular]

Isn't this God's job?

So there's no way for me to tell a true Christian from someone who's simply self deluded? Someone like yourself for example. Which makes for a very odd predicament, because it means that the one attribute that all supposed Christians have in common, is that their claims to being a true Christian can't be trusted. Which makes me wonder, what else about Christians can't be trusted?

 

[Astrid]

So there's no way for me to tell a true Christian from someone who's simply self deluded? Someone like yourself for example. Which makes for a very odd predicament, because it means that the one attribute that all supposed Christians have in common, is that their claims to being a true Christian can't be trusted. Which makes me wonder, what else about Christians can't be trusted?

Whivh loops back to why I asked.

I keep thinking there must be some “there” there,
but it seems further away than ever, reading these posts.

 

[partinobodycular]

Whivh loops back to why I asked.

I keep thinking there must be some “there” there,
but it seems further away than ever, reading these posts.

For me the "there" there is found in Micah 6:8... do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with thy God. If you're content with doing these three things, then what other signs, titles, or accolades could a Christian possibly need?

Now some might say that it's impossible for a non-Christian to fulfill the last of the three... walking humbly with thy God... to which I wholeheartedly agree, but I also believe that in fulfilling the first two, one has already fulfilled the third, and that makes them... a Christian.

1 Corinthians 13:13 "So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

 

[David Lamb]

Thread asks what a true believer is.

I know it does, but I was responding to your specific question as to whether I would define a true believer as one who has been saved.

 

[David Lamb]

Such is all bible based religion, parading as Christianity,

If it is truly bible-based, it is not parading as Christianity; it is Christianity.

as if it were united in Christ. But when has God declared of the religion, "these are my people and Church"? Never has God said this. It is the people and Church's themselves who say it of themselves. They wave the bible and say it is their validation, as if the bible were God, rather than a testimony of God.

Jesus said:

“"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” (Joh 6:37 NKJV)

A people given to the Son by God the Father must surely be "God's people." As for the church, Jesus said:

“ I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” (Mt 16:18 NKJV)

Peter wrote to Christians:

“Coming to Him [as to] a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God [and] precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” (1Pe 2:4-5 NKJV)

Christians don't treat the bible as if it were God - they don't worship the bible, say prayers to the bible, etc. They treat the bible as God's inspired Word.

And if they know the bible is true, then why do they all know it differently among the tens of thousands of denominations, each with its own interpretation and understanding. There is only one gospel, Christ, and God. Yet the religion which men have made from it is a hydra.

Because mankind is far from perfect, so our understanding of the truths of the bible is not perfect either.

 

[Neogaia777]

How you can know a true person of God from the false is if they first believe in what is true about Jesus, and also believe at least some of what he believed, etc, and then next, if they have love among themself, or as a part of themselves. And that that shows or is evident in their life. Otherwise they are liars and decievers and are false followers (or pastors/teachers/prophets/preachers) of Jesus Christ. And there are plenty of them out there, etc. So, be very, very careful not to be tricked by their trickery, or the falsehoods that they are displaying when they say they are followers of Jesus Christ, etc. If they are extremely hateful or judgemental of others and other people and are like this always, or all of the time, then that is one of the ways you can know they are not a true follower of Jesus Christ. You can also know them by the kinds of fruit they are producing in others also, etc, or by their followers, or by their body that they have formed in Jesus Christ, etc. And these are some of the best ways you can know, or can tell, or can truly identify, the true from the false in Jesus Christ.

Why we have so many false ones right now, is because they are meant to test the rest of us, and are necessary right now for a time.

God Bless.

 

[Injeun]

If it is truly bible-based, it is not parading as Christianity; it is Christianity.

Jesus said:

“"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” (Joh 6:37 NKJV)

A people given to the Son by God the Father must surely be "God's people." As for the church, Jesus said:

“ I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” (Mt 16:18 NKJV)

Peter wrote to Christians:

“Coming to Him [as to] a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God [and] precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” (1Pe 2:4-5 NKJV)

Christians don't treat the bible as if it were God - they don't worship the bible, say prayers to the bible, etc. They treat the bible as God's inspired Word.

Because mankind is far from perfect, so our understanding of the truths of the bible is not perfect either.

But Christians aren't united in Christ to justly be called Christians. They are united in their attempt to counterfeit or approximate his gospel. They all differ from one another in what they teach. They are tens of thousands of different denominations. So the bible doesn't validate them. Its existence testifies against them. Or they condemn themselves by their contradictions. So their waving of the bible to validate themselves is a bait and switch technique like the flashing of a badge to circumvent authentication, so as to gain illegal entry. It's a con job, a violation of trust, and utterly contemptable. It's members are captives not of Christ but of falsehoods. They are gobbled up and plunked in their respective denominational buckets of the multi headed, hydra like creature, which they call Christianity, as if to wear the name of God could make them holy. Or to say that if God will not have me, then I will have him. And I will take his seat, crown, glory, and honor. They could have abided and left Gods work to God. Instead wicked men take up the holy book and make of it what suits them. The result is mass distortion. There is no variance or shadow of turning in God. But there is no continuity at all in that which parades as Christianity. There is nothing solid in it. It is an image. It is all that they have. And it is a hasty bit of gossipy nothing. So if they can make of Gods holy work what they will. Then I can make of theirs what it is.