What is "hell"?

[Fireinfolding]

I do thank you, Angelmom, for trying to clarify for me, and you did an excellent job of it.

I didn't go any further with squint because I knew it'd be a frustrating, fruitless discussion. I didn't know you and Fire had both done the rounds before...

Been there learning not to keep doing that lol

I dont know if its another breed of a thing or not, but I'm not into that which serves in direct questions looking for the (same like) answers over His inspiration. Theres a difference (at least to me) between the two somehow. The latter is much more glorious ofcourse

 

[squint]

Flesh is flesh Squint, I never said otherwise.

Part of the observation in play here is blame and accusation of the "flesh" rather than the impetus to the flesh.

I dont have the same questions as you Squint, and Im not the bible answer man or one who needs to answer TO YOU concerning HIS WORDS.

Another off point spin.

Where I add on this form I add and where I cannot I dont. Its called not going beyond ones "measure". But I will not be pushed into a place where you feel its my obligation to answer to your own questions because I have "my own". Im not fond of an inquisitional approach.

And I am quite fond of pinpointing accusers and condemners of our fellow man in their various guises and calling them on their nonsense. Boo hoo.

but another nice job of dodging your own drift.

typical

enjoy!

 

[squint]

Squint, I really have no intention of "humoring" you. Sorry. Just like Fire, I have been down this road with you before and it is not a road that I wish to go down again, right now. I was only trying to clarify for Tavita, I know that I am not going to persuade you (nor you me).

We do not see these things the same, though I can agree with much of what you say (but in the context of how *I* see and understand these things).

So please feel free to stand on your prior observation.

Facts is girls, you both seem to be quite fond of piling on our fellow man in various forms, which is obvious enough....

What is even funnier is that you claim you don't...even while doing it...

What is even funnier than that is that when you are called on it, you both lied about what I said, and that left a mark on YOU.

enjoy!

squint

 

[squint]

I didn't go any further with squint because I knew it'd be a frustrating, fruitless discussion. I didn't know you and Fire had both done the rounds before...

There are many forms of Gospels that are floating around in this world.

Little if any of those presentations are actually "Good News" and even less are truthful to scriptures.

Condemnation and accusations of our fellow man have enveloped pretty much everyone who picks up the Word. I don't mind ampliying that process so that the "obvious" effects of the anti-christ spirts are seen for what "they" are. That's what the Word does.

The facts will remain that even with Christian Universalism, condemnation and accusations and false teachings drip from the rafters unchecked.

Fact is God in Christ in NO WAY condemns, judges, measures short or casts away our fellow man. This just ain't happening.

But God will utterly judge and condemn those who do so, and they IN MANKIND are continually being warned in advance.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Tavita]

There are many forms of Gospels that are floating around in this world.

Little if any of those presentations are actually "Good News" and even less are truthful to scriptures.

Condemnation and accusations of our fellow man have enveloped pretty much everyone who picks up the Word. I don't mind ampliying that process so that the "obvious" effects of the anti-christ spirts are seen for what "they" are. That's what the Word does.

The facts will remain that even with Christian Universalism, condemnation and accusations and false teachings drip from the rafters unchecked.

Fact is God in Christ in NO WAY condemns, judges, measures short or casts away our fellow man. This just ain't happening.

But God will utterly judge and condemn those who do so, and they IN MANKIND are continually being warned in advance.

enjoy!

squint

Mat 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
Mat 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?
Mat 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.


For one who thinks he can point out the sins of others so well, you're pretty good at doing the same thing yourself.

 

[squint]

For one who thinks he can point out the sins of others so well, you're pretty good at doing the same thing yourself.

WHEN did you see me accuse ANY of Gods offspring for SINS?

Putting up falsehoods does not make for profit, but it does mark as "missing" same.

enjoy!

squint

 

[angelmom01]

Facts is girls, you both seem to be quite fond of piling on our fellow man in various forms, which is obvious enough....

To quote you:

What you see is not what others see.

What is even funnier is that you claim you don't...even while doing it...

Again,

What you see is not what others see.

What is even funnier than that is that when you are called on it, you both lied about what I said, and that left a mark on YOU.

enjoy!

squint

And here is the ONLY reason that I even responded to this post. You want to talk about false "accusers", squint? Where did I "lie" about what you said? I QUOTED you and then I addressed those quotes with MY OWN understanding. How is that "lying" about about you said? It's not. Everyone here can READ what you said. Why would I need to "lie" about it?

 

[squint]

And here is the ONLY reason that I even responded to this post. You want to talk about false "accusers", squint? Where did I "lie" about what you said?

You think you "hear" accusation to "you" and stated same as coming from "my" lips, but that is not what is transpiring.

What I have put before you ALL and what has been left UNATTENDED is this:

What is the DEVIL'S ROLE in these matters?

You have not stepped up to the plate of disclosure on this matter. You may not. Nor has Tavita, nor has fif.

As is common amongst many a URist, is the believe that ONLY MANKIND in various forms is THE DEVIL or children of same.

So I ask you all to put your cards in this matter on the table so they can be seen openly and transparently.

And of course you are all scrambling TO NOT disclose where you are "really" at in these matters.

enjoy!

squint

 

[DesertScroll]

Why would I not want to stick with what I wrote?

If you see a problem with something I wrote then point it out so that I can look at it and address it, but I certainly don't see how anything that I wrote contradicts anything in Rev 1. And, since you did not say, I am not even sure what you are referring to. The "keeping" the sayings of the book? The stars in His right hand being "the angels of the churches"?

John is writing about the revelation of Jesus Christ. Most seem to connect that with a second physical manifestation of Christ that is yet to come. I do not.

Christ comes "the second time" UNTO THOSE WHO LOOK FOR HIM (without sin unto salvation) which is why we are told to "watch for" His appearing (as he comes "as a thief in the night"). And that is why we are told to "keep" the saying of the book. The word for keep is "tereo" and it also means to watch or keep the eye upon.

Christ is "revealed" in and through us by the power of the Holy Spirit. That is what eternal life is and how one is passed from death unto life. Christ IN YOU is the hope of glory. Everything that is in the book of the revelation of Jesus Christ is signified to show what we should be "looking for" (spiritually, not carnally). Those things apply to ALL who have ever or will ever read that book.

Reply to post #61

First, making use of scriptures by taking them out of context, using isolated phrases, and ignoring the other verses which refute what they are saying is not using scripture to support their views, they are distorting it (2 Pet 3:16). This isn't Lit 101 where every interpretion and every feeling about what is written is valid. There is one truth (2 Pet 1:20) and unfortunately Satan uses many ways to distort the truth. If a person's view is refuted by what scripture says then their view is not valid, not in the truth, and you can tell what spirit the view comes from. Remember to test things, by scripture, to see where the views come from (2 Tim 3:16).

Now you wrote "what you think is 'the end' in the book of Revelation takes place AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST (as that is what the book is about) and if you look in Rev 14 you will see that it is not 'the end' but about those who are DYING HENCEFORTH in the Lord".

Actually if you reread Rev 1:1 again like I asked you will see that the revelation of Jesus Christ is about what must soon take place. The vision is the vehicle, given by God, and it shows what will happen. To put it another way, the revelation was given to John, who wrote it down, and the book describes his vision, which describes what will happen. Ignoring a key part of Rev 1:1 is not a good way to start out.

Rev 14:9-20
Here again you completely missed why this is in fact describing the day of judgment. From verse 9-11 it is never described as happening then, but "will also drink" "will be tormented", and then after that it describes the future event with the smoke of their torment and the no rest day or night. So this is a passage about the end saying that it will happen in the future. Let me repeat, will happen in the future. So yes, it makes perfect sense to say "Blessed are the dead who from now on die in the Lord" because no where in this passage is it saying that the end came, it is coming and it describes it. If you want to see it happen in the vision John saw then flip forward to Rev 20:10-15. And sadly the rest of your post is like this in that you ignore context and worse what it says.

Btw, if you want to see how the original readers kept as well as how we can keep the sayings of the book even though not all of the vision has come to completion, just look at all the calls to the saints for endurance and perseverence, to keep the commandments and faith of Jesus. Not to mention keeping watch for the signs of the things fortold happening.

Your section on the "reapers are the angels" and then also showing that Paul was referred to as an angel is not only logically naive as the case you are making is not based on an equivalence, but two different uses of the word, it is also based on a version of scripture which translates the words "men" instead of "anyone" and "they". Can it mean men? Yes, but by implication only as it can very well mean anyone and in relation to the verb for gather it can very well mean they gather them. Not something to base a view on. As for your equivalence for the words angels used by Jesus and angel in reference to Paul here are some verses that would unravel your equivalence: 1 Cor 4:9 Matt 25:31-34 as the angels are clearly not men.

You have also confused the last days/end of the world or end of the age(s) with the day of wrath, judgment day as well as with harvesting now versus The Harvest. Passages like Luke 10:2 do show us that we sow, reap, and harvest here and now and we do so on an individual basis. The last harvest is where everything is gathered at the end, and everyone is seperated to its place as even the scriptures you posted show this (Matt 13:24-30). And just because you showed that their is harvesting now, does not make it equivalent to the harvest at the end. A big difference is that the end harvest is everyone, while the harvest now is Christians now being used by the Spirit to bring others to Christ. Another big difference is we aren't burning any chaff, just harvesting, while Christ harvests all that belong to him and burns all the chaff that isn't worth taking.

The end of the age, which we live in now is not the day of wrath, the end of the world (as in a new one replaces it, not the KJ translation of aion from Heb 9:26). You can see this difference with how the day of wrath is described versus living in the end of the age. Some examples Joel 3:11-16 (this one even uses harvesting) Rev 16:14 Rev 6:16,17 (which instead of in the end of the age (the now) where there is patience and mercy we have wrath, another difference between the two).

Also with Matt 3:11,12 you said they seem to be taking place at the same time. How is that? They are both two statements about the future. No sense of time is equated between the two at all.

Another problem with your view is that we are waiting for a second coming where Christ is seen by all, bodily, with a bodily resurrection of the dead (1 cor 15:42) which is imperishable, spiritual. Which just like the risen lord's body can be seen, but also not as limited. Just like Acts 1:9-11 we look for his coming back in the same manner he left. And it will be seen by everyone, even those that do not believe (1 Thess 5:1-11 as those not looking for him are destroyed versus those who are waiting for him and are not caught off guard).

As my time is short I know this post is a tad jumbled and I did not type out my verses (you'll have to look them up) as I had no time. But as you can see taking a word, and then taking a word from two different contexts and then calling them equal does not work, because the context actually matters. You need to take a serious, long hard look at what you teach as it isn't meaningless (James 3:1).

 

[angelmom01]

You think you "hear" accusation to "you" and stated same as coming from "my" lips, but that is not what is transpiring.

Color it anyway you like, squint. You can "say" that you are not accusing "me" but "that sin that lives in me" (or whatever you want to call it), but your "accusations" are still directed TOWARDS ME as you are claiming that *I* am doing something that you do not like or agree with (accusing my fellow man and/or God's offspring). You can see it that way all you want and call it whatever you want, I suppose. But really, that only makes it true to you, who cannot possibly judge my heart.

What I have put before you ALL and what has been left UNATTENDED is this:

What is the DEVIL'S ROLE in these matters?

You have not stepped up to the plate of disclosure on this matter. You may not. Nor has Tavita, nor has fif.

As is common amongst many a URist, is the believe that ONLY MANKIND in various forms is THE DEVIL or children of same.

So I ask you all to put your cards in this matter on the table so they can be seen openly and transparently.

And of course you are all scrambling TO NOT disclose where you are "really" at in these matters.

enjoy!

squint

And the topic of this thread is hell not "who or what is Satan". So I most certainly have touched on your question (in post 83 and 86). I have even given you a link (post 94) to a thread that contains a study that I did on the subject so goes into more detail about who and what *I* believe Satan to be. In post 98 I pointed out to you where I "divide" these things differently from you and I supported that by pointing out to you that the flesh is warring against the spirit in a later verse (I think 101).

Just because you hear "skin" when I say "the flesh" doesn't mean that you are hearing properly or that I am somehow "accusing God's offspring".

So "my cards", as you say, are on the table. They are just not all in THIS thread where you would like to have them so you can tear them apart.

Just because I am not going there with you doesn't mean that I have something to hide.

 

[squint]

Color it anyway you like, squint. You can "say" that you are not accusing "me" but "that sin that lives in me" (or whatever you want to call it), but your "accusations" are still directed TOWARDS ME

Depends on who's speaking now doesn't it?

If evil influences a person to condemn other people for THEIR "sins" works, then YES, to that I speak with scripture disclosure in hand.

If you hear it as being spoken to GODS OFFSPRING i.e. ONLY ME, then no, you are very wrong, not you mind you as GODS OFFSPRING, but the false spinner who "makes" you hear that as Gods offspring.

Gods offspring DO NOT SIN nor do they condemn other PEOPLE in any form for SINS. That's all there is to this matter.

as you are claiming that *I* am doing something that you do not like or agree with (accusing my fellow man and/or God's offspring). You can see it that way all you want and call it whatever you want, I suppose. But really, that only makes it true to you, who cannot possibly judge my heart.

As put before you prior, WITHOUT a "separate entity" upon which to view, you have NOWHERE ELSE TO GO but unto YOUR FELLOW MAN, Gods offspring. So basically you are in a corner on this subject.

And the topic of this thread is hell not "who or what is Satan".

Trying to deflect the observations will do you no good. SATAN and his messengers WILL FRY and are therefore very very much in play on this subject regardless of your spin doctoring.

So I most certainly have touched on your question (in post 83 and 86). I have even given you a link (post 94) to a thread that contains a study that I did on the subject so goes into more detail about who and what *I* believe Satan to be.

Uh huh. That's partly why I'm here.

You have NO ONE but your FELLOW MAN, and THEM, Gods offspring as SATAN.

But of course you can't quite spit that hairball out on the table in a forthright manner because to "do that" will brand you as a common heretic amongst the traditionalists.

So you all HIDE your terminologies as is the common tactic with "urism."

In post 98 I pointed out to you where I "divide" these things differently from you and I supported that by pointing out to you that the flesh is warring against the spirit in a later verse (I think 101).

Well, come on now girl. Just come on out and say THERE IS NO DEVIL OR SATAN but your unbelieving mankind...

Just because you hear "skin" when I say "the flesh" doesn't mean that you are hearing properly or that I am somehow "accusing God's offspring".

Now that ain't the point at all is it?

You can accuse our fellow man anyway you want to, under the guise of epidermis or carnal nature or tongue or whatever, but WITHOUT Satan as a SEPARATE ENTITY, it's still just MANKIND ain't it?

So "my cards", as you say, are on the table. They are just not all in THIS thread where you would like to have them so you can tear them apart.

Well, they are on the table in the typical merrygoround fashion but certainly not in a FORTHRIGHT manner.

Just because I am not going there with you doesn't mean that I have something to hide.

I think you know perfectly well where this is headed and so did I before my fingers ever hit the type.

enjoy!

squint

 

[angelmom01]

Reply to post #61

First, making use of scriptures by taking them out of context, using isolated phrases, and ignoring the other verses which refute what they are saying is not using scripture to support their views, they are distorting it (2 Pet 3:16). This isn't Lit 101 where every interpretion and every feeling about what is written is valid. There is one truth (2 Pet 1:20) and unfortunately Satan uses many ways to distort the truth. If a person's view is refuted by what scripture says then their view is not valid, not in the truth, and you can tell what spirit the view comes from. Remember to test things, by scripture, to see where the views come from (2 Tim 3:16).

And, for the most part, I agree. However, comparing the “patterns” that emerge in various places in scripture is part of “rightly dividing the word of true” as is “comparing spiritual things with spiritual”. We are also supposed to let SCRIPTURE interpret SCRIPTURE (which is why we are "compare" and "rightly divide"). Paul did the very same thing.

I have not taken anything “out of context” in so doing, as the “meaning” of the verse does not change (to me) whether I quote the verse “alone” or with the entire chapter that it came “out of”.

Now you wrote "what you think is 'the end' in the book of Revelation takes place AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST (as that is what the book is about) and if you look in Rev 14 you will see that it is not 'the end' but about those who are DYING HENCEFORTH in the Lord".

Actually if you reread Rev 1:1 again like I asked you will see that the revelation of Jesus Christ is about what must soon take place. The vision is the vehicle, given by God, and it shows what will happen. To put it another way, the revelation was given to John, who wrote it down, and the book describes his vision, which describes what will happen. Ignoring a key part of Rev 1:1 is not a good way to start out.

Actually, I read Rev 1:1 and I agree with you. Those things were to SHORTLY come to pass. Are those who read the book 2000 (+/-) years ago still “waiting” for those things to come to pass? How do they shortly come to pass for those of us who are reading the book now, 2000 (+/-) years later?

Rev 14:9-20
Here again you completely missed why this is in fact describing the day of judgment.

Maybe you are just assuming that I "missed" that? I agree that it is describing the day of judgment. Where did I say otherwise?

From verse 9-11 it is never described as happening then, but "will also drink" "will be tormented", and then after that it describes the future event with the smoke of their torment and the no rest day or night. So this is a passage about the end saying that it will happen in the future.

In the future for whom? I thought these things were to "shortly come to pass"? Was that only what was in "Chapter 1" (and not the whole book/vision)?

Let me repeat, will happen in the future.

Feel free.

So yes, it makes perfect sense to say "Blessed are the dead who from now on die in the Lord" because no where in this passage is it saying that the end came, it is coming and it describes it. If you want to see it happen in the vision John saw then flip forward to Rev 20:10-15. And sadly the rest of your post is like this in that you ignore context and worse what it says.

Where did I say that those things are PAST? Jesus Christ is He who WAS, IS and IS TO COME. Clearly you see the "was" and the "is to come". What about the IS?

Btw, if you want to see how the original readers kept as well as how we can keep the sayings of the book even though not all of the vision has come to completion, just look at all the calls to the saints for endurance and perseverence, to keep the commandments and faith of Jesus. Not to mention keeping watch for the signs of the things fortold happening.

Why do you think that I haven't looked at that? In this is THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS. We are all told to watch for His appearing as He comes "as a thief in the night" and he comes the second time "unto those who look for him". The resurrection IS NOT PAST.

Your section on the "reapers are the angels" and then also showing that Paul was referred to as an angel is not only logically naive as the case you are making is not based on an equivalence, but two different uses of the word, it is also based on a version of scripture which translates the words "men" instead of "anyone" and "they". Can it mean men?

And where do I say that the word "men" included only those of a "male" persuasion? I only gave Paul as an example as He one that is given to us for an example, right?

Are you denying the words of Christ when he said the field IS WHITE ALREADY TO HARVEST? Are you denying the words of Christ when he said that he would send HIS ANGELS TO REAP? Do you deny that Christ sent THEM "to reap"? What exactly are you calling "logically naive"? Believing the words of Christ and comparing those words with the events that were taking place?

Yes, but by implication only as it can very well mean anyone and in relation to the verb for gather it can very well mean they gather them. Not something to base a view on. As for your equivalence for the words angels used by Jesus and angel in reference to Paul here are some verses that would unravel your equivalence: 1 Cor 4:9 Matt 25:31-34 as the angels are clearly not men.

However, those verses do not "unravel" anything for me.

What makes you think that they have not been considered? Do you suppose that there is no difference between "angels" and "men" (1 Cor 4:9)?

NO MAN has ascended up to heaven (John 3:13) right? But who DO we see ascending and descending on the Son of man? (Gen 28:12, John 1:51). And the "holy angels" that come "with him" can't possibly be the saints (men, after a natural truth; angels, after a spiritual one)? Besides, where did I ever say that the term "angel" always applies to "men" like Paul and can't possibly refer to created spirit beings? I have not drawn that line.

You have also confused the last days/end of the world or end of the age(s) with the day of wrath, judgment day as well as with harvesting now versus The Harvest. Passages like Luke 10:2 do show us that we sow, reap, and harvest here and now and we do so on an individual basis. The last harvest is where everything is gathered at the end, and everyone is seperated to its place as even the scriptures you posted show this (Matt 13:24-30). And just because you showed that their is harvesting now, does not make it equivalent to the harvest at the end. A big difference is that the end harvest is everyone, while the harvest now is Christians now being used by the Spirit to bring others to Christ. Another big difference is we aren't burning any chaff, just harvesting, while Christ harvests all that belong to him and burns all the chaff that isn't worth taking.

How many judgments and harvests do you think there are? God was in Christ reconciling THE WORLD unto himself right? So then ALL were reconciled, none having their transgressions counted against them, right? And how does the Lord work?

Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

So when does that "separation" and "destruction" take place? Especially if Christ said that the field was READY to be harvested, he sent his angels (disciples) to reap and "men" are gathering them (all things that offend and them that do iniquity) out of His kingdom and casting them into a furnace to be burned? Did Christ not say that "the prince of this world IS JUDGED" (John 16:11)? That "NOW shall the prince of this world be cast out" in conjunction with His sending forth the Holy Spirit (John 12:31); that "the hour is coming AND NOW IS when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall LIVE" (John 5:25)?

What about the fact that the execution OF JUDGMENT is given to HIS SAINTS? And isn't it "the angels" who are pouring out the vials (etc) in the book of Revelation.

Christ came NOT TO JUDGE, but that through Him the world might be SAVED. It it given to the saints (angels, after a spiritual truth and as represented in the book of Revelation) to EXECUTE JUDGMENT. (Psa 149:9)

Just because we have not yet seen the consummation of all things doesn't mean that these things are not happening or that it is not "finished", according to God.

The end of the age, which we live in now is not the day of wrath, the end of the world (as in a new one replaces it, not the KJ translation of aion from Heb 9:26). You can see this difference with how the day of wrath is described versus living in the end of the age. Some examples Joel 3:11-16 (this one even uses harvesting) Rev 16:14 Rev 6:16,17 (which instead of in the end of the age (the now) where there is patience and mercy we have wrath, another difference between the two).

Are you telling me that the wrath of God does not already abide on those who believe not? (John 3:36). The book of Revelation is full of symbols so I look at it spiritually, not naturally (ie I do not believe that God is going to reign literal/physical fire down from heaven to "destroy all flesh", though all flesh WILL BE destroyed "by fire".)

Also with Matt 3:11,12 you said they seem to be taking place at the same time. How is that? They are both two statements about the future. No sense of time is equated between the two at all.

Are you telling me that Christ has not yet baptized us with the Holy Spirit and with fire?

What happened at Pentecost then? And what do you think "the fiery trial which is to try you" is that Paul spoke about?

Another problem with your view is that we are waiting for a second coming where Christ is seen by all, bodily, with a bodily resurrection of the dead (1 cor 15:42) which is imperishable, spiritual. Which just like the risen lord's body can be seen, but also not as limited.

You may very well be waiting for Christ's second coming but he comes THE SECOND TIME - UNTO THOSE WHO LOOK FOR HIM (not the world) as "this coming" is by the power of the Holy Spirit wherein we are "born again" by having Christ formed IN US, as far as I can tell. And here is part of the reasons why:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him SHALL HE APPEAR THE SECOND TIME without sin unto salvation.

Joh 14:18-20 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Are you not expecting to be "saved" until after you physically die? It is those who are "born again" who able to "see" the kingdom of God and are able to "enter into His rest" and who are "given right to the tree of the LIFE".

Just like Acts 1:9-11 we look for his coming back in the same manner he left. And it will be seen by everyone, even those that do not believe (1 Thess 5:1-11 as those not looking for him are destroyed versus those who are waiting for him and are not caught off guard).

Yes, IN LIKE MANNER. But why do you look at that after a natural truth, rather than a spiritual one, since HIS WORDS are SPIRIT and they are LIFE, right?

He was "taken up" and "a cloud received him" (out of their sight) right? Are not those who believe "a cloud of witnesses"? Is Christ not glorified IN HIS SAINTS. Is God not made manifest THROUGH HIS BODY? Does "seeing" always mean "perceiving"?

Is that to say that Christ dose "not" return at some point to gather "all those who remain" at "the consummation of all things"? No. But He comes THE SECOND TIME unto those who look for him and I see this as a spiritual manifestation by the power of the Holy Spirit IN those who believe. As that is how "salvation" comes and that is what "eternal life" is.

As my time is short I know this post is a tad jumbled and I did not type out my verses (you'll have to look them up) as I had no time. But as you can see taking a word, and then taking a word from two different contexts and then calling them equal does not work, because the context actually matters. You need to take a serious, long hard look at what you teach as it isn't meaningless (James 3:1).

Well, I am sorry that you find what I have to say as "meaningless" but I think I will let GOD decide that and not you, if you don't mind.

As far as "teaching" goes. I am just sharing my views (and some of my studies) here like many others. It is not my desire "to teach" anyone. It is the Holy Spirit who teaches and leads us (though He may use whom He will to do it, I suppose). But that is up TO HIM, not me. Everyone here is free to compare what is shared with what is written, to "try the spirits" to see whether they be "of God" or not. That is what we are told to do and it is what I do with that which I read from others. None of which I find "meaningless". Though I might not agree with all of it.

 

[angelmom01]

You need to take a serious, long hard look at what you teach as it isn't meaningless (James 3:1).

I apologize, I misread what you wrote. :o I thought you were saying that what I said "is" meaningless (hence my reply).

But my comments still stand so far as I am not trying to be anyone's "teacher" here. The Holy Spirit is (or should be) our teacher. I do not rely on any "man" (or woman) to teach me anything. I mean no offense by that, of course, I receive what they say but then I take it to the word of God and to the Lord, directly. I pretty much assume that that is what most of us do.

Anyway, I apologize for misreading what you wrote. :o

 

[windjammer]

Hi angel mom seems you and squint are having
a dialogue , and if i may just add this food for thought ..

evil and good offspring are from eating from THAT TREE .. its whats formed in a mans heart that defiles him not what enters .......Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?

Psa 58;2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.

Jer 4;14
O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?

jer 17;9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

the evil one is also there as a breath ,wind or even , if you will a movement of air, this being to me a thought and mind process

mat 8 ;16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out[drive out] the spirits with [his] word, !!

and healed all that were sick:That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare [our] sicknesses.

I dont have any clear answers just wondering myself
peace and be blessed in Jesus Christ ....... windjammer

 

[angelmom01]

Hi angel mom seems you and squint are having
a dialogue , and if i may just add this food for thought ..

evil and good offspring are from eating from THAT TREE .. its whats formed in a mans heart that defiles him not what enters .......Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?

Psa 58;2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.

Jer 4;14
O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?

jer 17;9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

the evil one is also there as a breath ,wind or even , if you will a movement of air, this being to me a thought and mind process

mat 8 ;16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out[drive out] the spirits with [his] word, !!

and healed all that were sick:That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare [our] sicknesses.

I dont have any clear answers just wondering myself
peace and be blessed in Jesus Christ ....... windjammer

Amen, windjammer, THANK GOD He gives a NEW HEART right? Not only a "new" heart but "one heart". He also gives us a NEW SPIRIT, HIS SPIRIT.

He purifies our hearts and our minds, cleansing us with pure water so that we can stand before him with a "good conscience".

Praise His Holy Name!!.

 

[DesertScroll]

First I want to apologize for not being as clear in my previous post as I would have liked. Just off of work and getting the kids ready for church while typing it up left it less than desirable. Hopefully this post will be a little more clear.

About the blessed are the dead passage in Rev 14. This was in relation to 14:9-11 showing that it was in fact quite easy to show both the language of an end judgment here as well as maintain the phrase written after it saying blessed are the dead who from now on die in the Lord. They are not contrary to each other as I assumed was your argument in post #61. Btw thank you for fleshing out your post with your views. Just posting scriptures for the most part in #61 left me to try and follow your thoughts on my own the best I could. If you just give a verse four people can say amen, yet mean four different things.

About the shortly coming to pass. You wrote, "Those things were to shortly come to pass. Are those who read the book 2000(+/-) years ago still 'waiting' for those things to come to pass? How do they shortly come to pass for those of us who are reading the book now, 2000 (+/-) years later?". I would say in the same manner that our Lord promised he was coming quickly (Rev 3:11 22:7, 12, 20).
Also look at Matt 24:22-28 2 Pet 3:3-13 (where it speaks of scoffers saying where is the promise of his coming) and Zeph 1:14-18 (where Zeph prophesized about the final judgment quickly coming as well).

Now the angels and the harvest.
As I said before, we do sow and reap as we are sent out into the harvest of God (more on this later in the post). That is how disciples are made. So there are lots of harvests in relation to individual believers sharing the gospel. But all of these are part of the harvest of God (as I said more on this part of it later on, for now the focus is on method).
But what you responded with missed the point, but as I noted earlier it was my fault for not fleshing my view out. Your method is to note that in verse A angels are the harvesters. In verse B you point to the fact that ministers, such as Paul, are called angels. Now this gives you not an equivalence claim that angels doing the reaping are in fact ministers such as Paul, but gives you "it is not out of the realm of possibility" that ministers such as Paul are the ones described in the description of the harvest. Which I assume you agree with as you wrote "I have not drawn that line".
Now, bring in Matt 25:31-34. Jesus is there. All the angels are with him. All the nations gathered before Jesus. And the people of the nations he separates into groups, the sheep and the goats. Now the question is "is it within the realm of possibility that ministers such as Paul are the angels that come with him?". Now because this is the judgment and we know all will stand before the judgment seat of God (Rom 14:10). We know ministers such as Paul are in the grouping of the sheep and so ministers such as Paul cannot be in the grouping of the angels.
Now using this same method and turning to Matt 13. First, Christ's explanation in v. 37, 38. The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world. The good seed are the children of the kingdom. The weeds are the children of the evil one. The enemy which sowed the weeds is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age. The reapers are angels. So now "is it within the realm of possibility that ministers such as Paul are the angels that are reaping?". Now ministers such as Paul are children of the kingdom, which in v. 30 it is told to us that Christ is allowing them to be grown together until harvest time when the reapers collect them. So no, because they are in the group of the good seed. They are not the reapers, but those that are reaped.

Now there is only one judgment and only one harvest which accomplishes this judgment.
Luke 10:2 we are sent out into this harvest.
John 4:36 some sow seeds of the gospel and others reap it. They make disciples, the great commission (Matt 28:19, 20) which is very different from Matt 13 which is not about making disciples, but separating those that are in Christ versus those that are not. There is only a problem if you try and equate the reaping in John 4:36 with the reaping of Matt 13. One is making disciples, the other is bringing them home.
So the separation and destruction takes place in what Matt 13 describes, not John 4:36.

The prince of this world is judged already (John 16:11) just as those who do not believe in Jesus are condemned already (John 3:18). But the judgment, where everyone is judged based on their deeds, has not happened yet. But yes, judgment day is already decided based on whether or not one is in Christ, as seen in Revelation by the Lamb's book of life.

Now John 5:25, great passage, I love it! But read on to v. 28, 29. There are two different resurrections here. One is now and the other is the end, when Christ comes again. Amen! (I'll make use of this some more later).

With the vials they are not the final judgment. And yes, you are correct Christians shall judge (1 Cor 6:2). But Christ is also the judge John 9:39 (which says he came to judge) John 5:27 Acts 10:42 17:31. Christ came to save, but also in that process God has also established the criteria for judgment (John 3:16-21). Christ's second coming will be to fulfill that criteria, the judgment. (Don't confuse the two comings of Christ, the Jews still expect a messiah, but of the second coming variety. They missed the first coming which the scriptures are quite clear on).

Yes, the wrath of God abides in the wicked. But remember, he is being patient with them for the sake of the elect (Rom 9:22, 23). John 3:36 also shows that they will not see life, but must endure God's wrath. Now if you take "not see life" as referring to the second resurrection (remembering John 5) that would be for the future. We also have Rom 2:5-10 9:22 Col 3:6 1 Thess 1:10.

Christians have been baptized with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Now Paul speaks about a future burning where works not on the foundation of Christ go poof (1 Cor 3:12-15) but I think you are referring to 1 Pet 4:12. This is a fire of persecution, to test them as they share in Christ's sufferings. Definitely a sense of refining. Also notice v. 17, if judgment is to begin with the household of God, then what will be the end for those who do not obey the gospel.

Now a biggy. Those who look for him.
Here is the KJV of Heb 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Notice, if you read the whole verse he appears the second time to those that look for him unto salvation. It does not say only to those who look for him. Big difference.

Here are two other translations that may make it a little more clear.

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. NRSV

So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await him. NASB

And if that is not enough we have verses which clearly show the second coming is not just for those who wait for him: 1 Thess 5:1-11 Zech 12:10 Matt 24:23-31

Now we are born again by having Christ in us, by the Spirit. Remember John 5 and the two resurrections? The promise of eternal life is with spiritual bodies, just like Christ was raised from the dead with (Rom 6:4,5).

John 14:18-20 where the world doesn't see Christ anymore but believers will. This is about the promise of Pentecost. Go back up to v. 15 so it would be John 14:15-20 and you can relate that to the first resurrection in John 5.

Col 1:27 Christ in you. See above w/ John 14:15-20 as well as Php 2:12,13 where Christians work out there own salvation in fear and trembling for it is God who is at work in them, enabling both to will and to work.

About being saved, I am saved now (remember John 5). His Spirit is the first fruits, while we wait for the second coming of Christ and the redemption of our bodies (Rom 8:23).

About the like manner of his second coming with the manner of his ascension (Acts 1:9-11) it is a natural truth to use your words. Because his body, the resurrected body, the same kind which we shall have (Rom 6:4,5) is spiritual (1 Cor 15:42-46) but it can also be seen. And it can even partake of the fruit of the vine (Luke 22:18). Its going to be a great wedding feast.

And you may not feel that you are teaching, but we will all be held accountable for every word we type on this forum. It isn't just idle chatter. We are espousing views, teaching.

I hope this post was a little more coherent, I still haven't slept, so I really can't tell.
Also couldn't repost what you wrote because of space limits.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Again, merely your reflection of where you think it's headed. If you agreed you would have no need to complain, so I guess we should cut to the rubs and see what polishes out.

Ah, its a "reflection of" where I think "somethings heading", now WHERE have I heard that before???

Haven't gotten that far yet, but I do see her laying plenty upon our fellow man under various guises and not broaching the subject of the role of the devil and his messengers in these matters. ding.

I see YOU laying things upon others (namely Angelmom in this instance) under the same "various guise" not touching the subject of "quote me"

Yeah lets look excitingly toward a "rubbing and polishing out" inquisition with an already present evil eye on a thing That sounds about as exciting as the rack.

IF you believe all mankind are saved, THEN logic dictates AND presents a SEPARATE entity class upon which to PLACE JUDGMENT and CONDEMNATION, which is the final analysis of HELL/eternal torment/separation/annihilation.

Right there is your false premise, laden with pure pressumption. You assume I see and hell and judgment according to how you just laid it out.

Incorrect assumptions which is appearing to be a common patern I now associate with you. Might be because your always on a witchy hunt all the time, not sure

And again, you are not the only party involved in that process, scripturally speaking so don't be so quick to BLAME and ACCUSE only "the man." In fact you should bring no blame to Gods offspring for those thoughts whatsoever.

You just falsely accused me for doing what you have no proof of in that statement of yours. Now provide a quote (from myself) where you can point out what you clearly accuse me of doing (as it relates to "blaming" or "accusing") anyone. There isnt one in the post portion you quoted. Its of your very own invention.

Good luck finding one

I could possibly ask you to retract all your false statements but there would be nothing left to your posts then

We have not touched on that subject yet

I did without cha

but the carnal man/person is and remains an IGNORANT SLAVE and they ARE SO by their NOT understanding the DIVISION between what they are controlled by and themselves....they are not SLAVES of themselves.

"Quote me" where I said the carrnal man has understanding or is free.

Again good luck Squint

Paul quite clearly stated that the sin that indwelt his flesh was NO LONGER I. Any attempt to make Paul prior or post conversion that which was NO LONGER I will remain a LIE of the EVIL influence that is upon the flesh.

Well thats a no brainer Squint "in the flesh". The very next quote (in the post) you copy pasted from me says that very thing concerning ~NO LONGER I~. Why on earth would you feel the need to separate my sentences and ADD (what I had further clarified on)?

The "law of sin" that Paul discovered was that when GODS LAWS came upon him, the SIN INDWELLING HIS FLESH was both aroused and empowered, so DON'T try to move the sin indwelling into a "law of sin." The law of sin is the reaction of sin to the law and that reaction is a built in auto-response of sin indwelling.

Im not trying to move anything LOL the law of sin is in his members

Romans 7:23 I see another law in my members, ~warring against~ the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Honestly Squint, where do you think "I think" sin or "the law of" sin is in his FLIPFLOPS?

My "answering this post is ridiculous".

False reflection again. How (what is in you) spins does not equate to what I write.

Pot meet the kettle LOL

I got news for you Squint however (what is "in you") spins a thing does not equate what we write either. Works both ways friend.

You know who you sound like?

Luke 7:33... He hath a devil

John 7:20...Thou hast a devil

John 10:20 He hath a devil

John 8:49 I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.:o

Mat 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

There is no suspicions on this subject whatsoever.

What you wrote (down further in the thread) concerning Angelmom is clear in regards to where your own suspicions lie.

Everyone is a "carrier" and the proof of the carrier and "what they carry" is multifold in nature and expressions.

Then please pay attention to your own "stowaway crew" then Squint Paul says ye are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit if so be the Spirit of Christ is in you. And sin shall have no dominion over you under grace. So the law and being in the flesh, verses being in the Spirit and grace.

One of the expressions is the denial of a separate entity class of the devil and his messengers. This particular form of denial is very powerful among the so called christian universalists.

Squint I havent been to a church for 18 years since I became a Christian. I'm not familiar with all the churches names or doctrines of every group out there. If you feel like you are a savior to this particular group then please feel free to knock on the doors of those churches toting this particular name tag.

Another form and most common form is to blame and accuse our fellow man and the condemnation of them to fry alive forever, which is easily seen "in the churches" common.

This is all so very interesting Squint, I dont care what others teach. Though I do appreciate the history lesson on others "thangs". You still havent quoted where you insinuate I (or Angelmom) blame or accuse anyone. If you ask me its you who are doing a pretty spectacular job of it insinuating us. Angelmom demonstrated that by copy pasting you on them.

Again a false spin. My test sets will remain on scripture points and not on imagations that are vaunted upon you.

Ok, I gotcha, I created a "false spin" when I spake to passing a "Squint test" yet you just affirmed the "My Test" thang.... nice "try" though LOL

How about Jesus is come in the flesh Squint? I know you see Demons come in the flesh. I "rarely" (if ever) hear you mention Jesus Christ in any of your posts.

Theres a truer in the flesh test Squint

Then by now you should realize that when the truth of the separation that exists here between mankind and devil kind is brought to the flesh, that the power of that entity class is HEIGHTENED, so make of that what you will.

By now you should begin realizing you are attributing to me things which fall under the false premise which you have been building in your own mind. Thats exactly what I make of it, nothing more.

My friends make clean cuts.

You appear to love obscurity (you deny). I cant tell what you are talking about... your little inner freinds?

Sorta like Legion and his inner freinds? Because you both appear to be cutting only yourselves Squint.

If you carried the Sword, you'd use it continually.

Sorry there Squinty, I can most likely outlast you in a non sleeping marathon. I'm "typically" up over 72 hours without no sleep (as I have shared on this forum many times).

The physically body and mind require rest, and mine much less then most. I think I could easily outrun your "continually" theory with great ease. Yet, God has not required me NOT TO physically sleep.

Besides, sleepwalking with a sword is just plain lack of good judgment. So spare me the heroic stuff here. I'd only advise you to stop falling on your own sword and making a complete spectacle out of yourself.

Viewing your post count in comparison to my own, I do appear to be much more busier then you (at least here) So I think your advice on "continually using your sword" is some advice you might want to take for yourself (rather then simply give it out)

I'm not into obscurity.

Well you could have "fooled me" LOL

Besides asking you to "refer to" another conversation is not "promoting" obscurity. Please see your nearest dictionary.com Now, If I had said please do NOT look at your "find all posts" you might have a wee "inch" to run around the block with that utterly nonsensical statement.

EDIT IN:
Heres "obscurity" our old conversation http://foru.ms/t6022040&page=24

Quoted this earlier, but I dont want to lose the order of the post

Haven't gotten that far yet, but I do see her laying plenty upon our fellow man under various guises and not broaching the subject of the role of the devil and his messengers in these matters. ding.

I refer you to your own words (to yourself) again

Again, merely your reflection of where you think it's headed

What she bears can speak for itself. I don't need your spin as a filter.

Yeah it certainly does, yet you appear to have no problems at all putting your own spin and filter on what she has obviously NOT SAID.

I dont need to create a spin or filter for her words because I know exactly what she is talking about and how she means it. I should know because she is my best freind (and freinds know each other)

You are the one without the slightest clue concerning anything so far.

Gods offspring do not sin, NOR is sin laid to mankinds account or counted upon THEM in ANY FORM. So your "we" is a false "we." Sin may very well transpire in flesh and mind and such activity is strictly of the DEVIL, not "we" or your fellow man, so you may not have fallen as far from the accusers tree as you supposed.

I'll use your words "thats your spin" I was quoting Paul

Ephes 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of OUR flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

I spake to this verse Squint if you have a problem with it please take it up with Paul

Ignorance is also forgiven to Gods offspring and NOT counted.

I was clearly talking about "the nature". No one said God doesnt forgive ignorance, that which is counted for seed is not the flesh. Though you do have a way of posting to insinuate others say things they do not.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, ~if so be that~ the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The various shades that are available to condemn and accuse our fellow man are easy enough to see.

You have yet to point ONE out (thus far) to make anything more easily visible.

hmmm??? Another reference to a "measured devil." Have you EVER heard me say that? No. So why LIE about it?

Because I mentioned to you "here" (what I had asked you about) in that other post here on CF (concerning a whacky doctrine)? That which was a common thing over at KingdomTalk (another forum) where you and I were both a member of and then "so informing" you "I will not go there"... THAT is lying?

Like the majority of things I have heard thus far ...no sense. Wasnt your screen name "Smaller" (who signed off with "enjoy"!) over there too?

Then let me stand openly accused of you as one lying on the basis of that now. Nothing surprises me anymore

I do not measure an "anti-Christ" spirit in "inches" or "size." I do know unequivocally by Word that the anti-Christ spirit(s) exist and that "mankind" Gods offspring all are "subject to" such workings in the flesh and mind.

Glad you dont measure them in inches because that (IMO) is very weird

Nice try though.

Okey Dokey... insinuate efforts now LOL

Think those little whisperers you might be carrying around think Im up to something? Do you always listen and speak what the false accuser says (if I might humor you) because thats all you been doing (for one that detests it so). Angelmom copied you on it and "this post". Could it be that "thing" in you (as you put it) making you do it?

Part of the observation in play here is blame and accusation of the "flesh" rather than the impetus to the flesh.

Show the blame in the way you attribute it Squint. Prove it, the burden of proof is on you to prove your suspicions (which you deny you have). You obviously cannot otherwise you would have already. I think this is one of those very "powerful" denial things you mention. Why not throw "your own" into the bag of "things to tackle" projects?

You have failed to produce any such proof except what has been laid open on this thread by way of your "own suspicions". You also dont understand that Angelmom isnt referring "the epidermis" of men (after a carnal truth) "as the flesh" but rather the spiritual "principality of the flesh" (verses "flesh and blood") itself. This is why you are tripping all over yourself and providing everyone here with a free circus show, one that Im not too interested in "performing in" with you.

I have quoted scripture and you assume the need to explain something to us concerning the "epidermis" and "little crittters" in mankind after a carnal truth. You overlooked the fact that Angelmom told you it was not to that which she is speaking. She is using the spiritual application of "the flesh". Yet you are so eager to be heard and jump on others that you have not been quick to listen and slow to speak. It was YOU who entered into this discussion and it was so utterly obvious (even predictable )where it would go (with you) as usual. She corrected you on "the shades" you have chosen to "pull down" only to rant on and build a thing entirely upon your own projected false premise.

I will leave you to your own imaginations...or to your "little freinds" (in your container) however you chose to word it

I dont have the same questions as you Squint, and Im not the bible answer man or one who needs to answer TO YOU concerning HIS WORDS.

Another off point spin.

A direct forthright response is not an "off point spin" but perhaps its your inner freinds who are making you think this, that might be a good possibility eh?

Where I add on this form I add and where I cannot I dont. Its called not going beyond ones "measure". But I will not be pushed into a place where you feel its my obligation to answer to your own questions because I have "my own". Im not fond of an inquisitional approach.

And I am quite fond of pinpointing accusers and condemners of our fellow man in their various guises and calling them on their nonsense.

You have already been called on your PIN (or Finger?) pointing. You have failed (at every point) to prove squat and it cant be any more obvious here. You run around looking for these "proofs of" accusations (and have not ever "once" quoted one) Your posts can be read by all. Finger points TO PROOF (you have NO PROOF = a witness that falsely accuses) and on the basis OF NOTHING. Very clearly (as Angelmom demonstates) the thing you "claim" you hate in others (and look for in them) is the very thing you do.

Theres a name for that

Boo hoo.

Well dont cry about it Squint, we all make mistakes and fall victim to our little "devils" I wonder if pride being the name of one of them?

Wait, wait... cant be, if one is given a thorn in the flesh (be it a messenger from Satan) there was a favor betowed on Paul who had been given one.

It actually buffeted Paul one to keep HIM HUMBLE in the light of all surpassing revelations he was receiving. God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. So it looks like one can actually do you a favor

Unless your messenger isnt working right and doing its job? lol

As you say "we are all containers" of demons? Maybe those little devils made you do it Squint? So please dont be so hard on yourself. I dont blame you. I know you (especially) are not in denial of those little critters "in you" now are you? Or does that pertain to everyone else except yourself?

You use the words "pinpoint" (in truth) appears more like "fingerpoint" its all this thread has been reduced to and you are the only one (and obviously so) doing it.

but another nice job of dodging your own drift.

BIG DITTO to YOU my Friend!!

Facts is girls, you both seem to be quite fond of piling on our fellow man in various forms, which is obvious enough....

Mr. NO QUOTES AGAIN?

Again you can ONLY accuse and that is indeed A FACT. YOU are obviously quite fond of "piling on us" these "supposed accusations" (against mankind) alluding to these (invisible) "various forms" and cant show where.

Nothing can get any more obvious.

What is even funnier is that you claim you don't...even while doing it...

Even funnier then "that" Squint is that you cant even quote a thing pertaining to your own suspicions. Yet (all the while) you run around doing "that" which you "claim to" (very loudly) to hate and yet you are in complete denial you do this very thing

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

May Nathan enlighten you as He did David

2Sam 12:17 Thou art the man

Romans 2:13 thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

What is even funnier than that is that when you are called on it, you both lied about what I said, and that left a mark on YOU.

**shivers and quakes**

Yeah yeah... again QUOTE US

You been marking up yourself and falling on your sword throughout this whole thread. Its been entertaining, God free you dude.

Angelmom answered you already on this one.

Have a blast with getting those "last words" in there Squint

I had short burst of energy, enough to answer you at least once... (or was it one of your inner freinds?) As always long, tedious, and fruitful.

ENJOY!!

Repenting for going there

Fireinfolding

 

[Fireinfolding]

Hi angel mom seems you and squint are having
a dialogue , and if i may just add this food for thought ..

evil and good offspring are from eating from THAT TREE .. its whats formed in a mans heart that defiles him not what enters .......Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?

Psa 58;2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.

Jer 4;14
O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?

jer 17;9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

the evil one is also there as a breath ,wind or even , if you will a movement of air, this being to me a thought and mind process

mat 8 ;16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out[drive out] the spirits with [his] word, !!

and healed all that were sick:That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare [our] sicknesses.

I dont have any clear answers just wondering myself
peace and be blessed in Jesus Christ ....... windjammer

Amen, windjammer, THANK GOD He gives a NEW HEART right? Not only a "new" heart but "one heart". He also gives us a NEW SPIRIT, HIS SPIRIT.

He purifies our hearts and our minds, cleansing us with pure water so that we can stand before him with a "good conscience".

Praise His Holy Name!!.

AMEN you two

The OLD heart, THE Creature, the NEW Heart and the NEW creature

You guys rock

 

[Tavita]

Fire, I wish I could rep ya!... Our God Rocks... and so do you!!!

 

[Fireinfolding]

Fire, I wish I could rep ya!... Our God Rocks... and so do you!!!

Bless your heart sis

Amen Tavita, Our God so completely rocks dont He?

Thats my favorite saying sis

much love

Fireinfolding