What is "hell"?

[angelmom01]

The topic is "hell" and it is THE TONGUE that is "set on fire of hell" which is why I brought it up as it is connected to "the flesh" and "the carnal mind" and "satan" (who also is said to hold the power of death).

 

[squint]

The topic is "hell" and it is THE TONGUE that is "set on fire of hell" which is why I brought it up as it is connected to "the flesh" and "the carnal mind" and "satan" (who also is said to hold the power of death).

Is the "carnal mind" Satan? Please feel free to extrapolate.

Most christians equate hell with "eternal destruction/annihilation or separation." I do not believe that fate is for mankind who are all Gods offspring and that same ALL who do NOT have sins counted against them.

 

[squint]

You can holler "accuser" all you want.

With no one but your fellow man you have nowhere else to go in any case of terms.

We have ONE who accused us. And "the flesh" refers to more than a man's "epidermis".
Enjoy!

See previous.

Without the devil and his messengers involved in these matters you STILL have only your fellow man to blame and accuse in any case no matter how fancy you think your dancing terms are.

 

[Fireinfolding]

The topic is "hell" and it is THE TONGUE that is "set on fire of hell" which is why I brought it up as it is connected to "the flesh" and "the carnal mind" and "satan" (who also is said to hold the power of death).

Amen sure is sis

 

[angelmom01]

Is the "carnal mind" Satan? Please feel free to extrapolate.

Most christians equate hell with "eternal destruction/annihilation or separation." I do not believe that fate is for mankind who are all Gods offspring and that same ALL who do NOT have sins counted against them.

Well that is not how *I* see hell, so please feel free to read my previous post(s) and the link that I provided if you want to know how I see Satan relative to the things that I have already mentioned.

And your accusations of me/others is no different than what you are accusing others of "no matter how fancy you think your dancing terms are" So I would appreciate it if you would just leave it alone, as I have NOTHING against God's offspring. And your insistence that I "do" doesn't change the fact that I "don't".

 

[Fireinfolding]

Are you being accused Angelmom?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Heres a connection to both THE FLESH the CARNAL MIND.. this is KOOL

Ephes 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were ***BY NATURE*** the children of wrath, even as others.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.


Romans 8:8 So then they that are ***IN THE FLESH*** cannot please God.


Blew that bad boy up

 

[angelmom01]

Gal 5:16-17 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Now maybe we can tie "the lust of the flesh" (in those who walk in darkness, having the devil as their father) to the "the gates of hell" that shall not prevail against the church.

 

[squint]

Well that is not how *I* see hell, so please feel free to read my previous post(s) and the link that I provided if you want to know how I see Satan relative to the things that I have already mentioned.

Well, it's easy enough to give direct answers. So humor me. Is there a separate entity class that is NOT mankind called the devil and his messengers?

Yes or no is sufficient.

And your accusations of me/others is no different than what you are accusing others of "no matter how fancy you think your dancing terms are"

I accuse NONE of mankind for accusing mankind.

So I would appreciate it if you would just leave it alone,

Oh? Again how you read what I wrote is what you are reflecting, not what I wrote.

as I have NOTHING against God's offspring.

Great. How then would you seek to apply judgment and damnation scriptures?

And your insistence that I "do" doesn't change the fact that I "don't".

Dancing ain't gonna change the fact. My prior observation remains.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Gal 5:16-17 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Now maybe we can tie "the lust of the flesh" (in those who walk in darkness, having the devil as their father) to the "the gates of hell" that shall not prevail against the church.

Yeah, did you notice the "power of darkness" is attributed to Satan as well as the "power of death". Those words are used interchangeably for abiding in "hate"". Which is interesting that to be "carnally minded" IS death as the carnal mind is great hatred toward God.

Enemies in "our minds" amen? and ironically the last enemy is "death" whereas to be "spiritually minded" is life and peace (the very opposite of the former). John speaks of those who have "passed from death UNTO life" by the nature of the fruit (hatred/darkness/death) unto (love/light/life). One speaks to the flesh the other the Spirit.

 

[squint]

Heres a connection to both THE FLESH the CARNAL MIND.. this is KOOL

Ephes 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were ***BY NATURE*** the children of wrath, even as others.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.


Romans 8:8 So then they that are ***IN THE FLESH*** cannot please God.


Blew that bad boy up

Well, let's clarify this.

Is the flesh subjected to influences that are not of Gods offspring, but are of the devil and his messengers as a completely separate entity?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Well, let's clarify this.

Is the flesh subjected to influences that are not of Gods offspring, but are of the devil and his messengers as a completely separate entity?

Squint, must I enter the same conversation with you at every encounter? GOD hath bound all men over to disobedience that he might have mercy on all. So thats sorta a dumb question, the creature was MADE "subject to" vanity, though even a mans own thoughts are regarded as vanity (as childhood and youth are vanity) as even a babe in Chris can be yet "carnal" (and to be carnally minded is death).

Paul even said the power of sin is the law. The motions of sins were by the law (while he was in the flesh) after a spiritual truth and it wrought "in Paul" to the contrary effect he desired. We already talked about this before Squint. It was "no longer I but sin" deal dwelling within him and he speaks of the law in his members that of sin and death in his members.

The same suspicious eye you have on Angelmom you had on me back then.

The last time we chatted on this forum it took pages and pages of me wrestling down your own suspicions. Its like everyone has to pass a Squint test. "I thought I had finally passed that test in your eyes Squint? Go recheck. Im not going to go through the same test over and over again every time I meet up with you

Although it was a nice chat Squint it was pretty wearisome with all the questions, inspections back and forth (chopping paragraphs into quarters) and having to answer to them. I just ended a three post (1000 page EACH) roll over thing I finally ended last night and Im not jumping on another one ya hear? I say that right now upfront because I know how our last one went. If you want to know what I think or need a refresher of our conversation please recheck your "find all posts" link and move to that conversation LOL

Angelmom hasnt accused "mankind". But because she does not see the principal of the flesh pertaining to the "epidermis" (after a carnal truth) you need her to jump through the same hoops you made me jump through. She has not accused mankind as you think (you cannot even quote where she has).

Werent we all fulfilling THE LUSTS OF ~THE FLESH~ (Which we are BY NATURE) after a spiritual truth? And in the same the LUST OF THE (CARNAL) MIND. In these (the flesh) and (of the mind) we ourselves were regarded as children of wrath. Does that MEAN the natural man can be subject to the law? No but it doesnt make those other things any less true.

As you already know I will not have a 6 inch devil conversation with you Squint (if you head there)

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Fireinfolding]

Heres a connection to both THE FLESH the CARNAL MIND.. this is KOOL

Ephes 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were ***BY NATURE*** the children of wrath, even as others.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.


Romans 8:8 So then they that are ***IN THE FLESH*** cannot please God.


Blew that bad boy up

Heres a verse from James

James 1:14 James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.



Rom 8:13 For if ye live after **the flesh**, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do **mortify** the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath **conceived**, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth **death**.

Rom 6:12 Let not **sin** therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey **it** in the lusts thereof.

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for **the flesh**, to fulfil ***the lusts thereof***.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye **shall not fulfil** the lust of **the flesh**.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have **crucified the flesh** with the affections and lusts.


So we have "in the Spirit" and "in the flesh" walking after one (obeying the lusts of the flesh) or walking in the Spirit and not fulfilling them. The power of sin = the law and without the law = sin is dead. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not "under the law", but under grace. Cant say your without it but its not to have dominion over us under grace verses (the power of it) while yet in the flesh (under the law).

Back to hell?

 

[squint]

Heres a verse from James

James 1:14 James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.



Rom 8:13 For if ye live after **the flesh**, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do **mortify** the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath **conceived**, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth **death**.

Rom 6:12 Let not **sin** therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey **it** in the lusts thereof.

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for **the flesh**, to fulfil ***the lusts thereof***.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye **shall not fulfil** the lust of **the flesh**.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have **crucified the flesh** with the affections and lusts.


So we have "in the Spirit" and "in the flesh" walking after one (obeying the lusts of the flesh) or walking in the Spirit and not fulfilling them. The power of sin = the law and without the law = sin is dead. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not "under the law", but under grace. Cant say your without it but its not to have dominion over us under grace verses (the power of it) while yet in the flesh (under the law).

Back to hell?

Well, I see you just can't quite bring yourself to answer simple questions, which is answer in itself.

Your flesh is your flesh, but that STILL doesn't mean that YOU are the "evil influence" upon same or that those same evil influences are not given to you AS YOUR BURDEN TO BEAR by God no different than the particular messenger of Satan that God gave Paul. dig?

 

[squint]

Squint, must I enter the same conversation with you at every encounter?

Again, merely your reflection of where you think it's headed. If you agreed you would have no need to complain, so I guess we should cut to the rubs and see what polishes out.

IF you believe all mankind are saved, THEN logic dictates AND presents a SEPARATE entity class upon which to PLACE JUDGMENT and CONDEMNATION, which is the final analysis of HELL/eternal torment/separation/annihilation.

GOD hath bound all men over to disobedience that he might have mercy on all. So thats sorta a dumb question, the creature was MADE "subject to" vanity, though even a mans own thoughts are regarded as vanity

And again, you are not the only party involved in that process, scripturally speaking so don't be so quick to BLAME and ACCUSE only "the man." In fact you should bring no blame to Gods offspring for those thoughts whatsoever.

(as childhood and youth are vanity) as even a babe in Chris can be yet "carnal" (and to be carnally minded is death).

We have not touched on that subject yet, but the carnal man/person is and remains an IGNORANT SLAVE and they ARE SO by their NOT understanding the DIVISION between what they are controlled by and themselves....they are not SLAVES of themselves.

Paul even said the power of sin is the law. The motions of sins were by the law (while he was in the flesh) after a spiritual truth and it wrought "in Paul" to the contrary effect he desired.

Paul quite clearly stated that the sin that indwelt his flesh was NO LONGER I. Any attempt to make Paul prior or post conversion that which was NO LONGER I will remain a LIE of the EVIL influence that is upon the flesh.

We already talked about this before Squint. It was "no longer I but sin" deal dwelling within him and he speaks of the law in his members that of sin and death in his members.

The "law of sin" that Paul discovered was that when GODS LAWS came upon him, the SIN INDWELLING HIS FLESH was both aroused and empowered, so DON'T try to move the sin indwelling into a "law of sin." The law of sin is the reaction of sin to the law and that reaction is a built in auto-response of sin indwelling.

The same suspicious eye you have on Angelmom you had on me back then.

False reflection again. How (what is in you) spins does not equate to what I write.

The last time we chatted on this forum it took pages and pages of me wrestling down your own suspicions.

There is no suspicions on this subject whatsoever. Everyone is a "carrier" and the proof of the carrier and "what they carry" is multifold in nature and expressions.

One of the expressions is the denial of a separate entity class of the devil and his messengers. This particular form of denial is very powerful among the so called christian universalists.

Another form and most common form is to blame and accuse our fellow man and the condemnation of them to fry alive forever, which is easily seen "in the churches" common.

Its like everyone has to pass a Squint test.

Again a false spin. My test sets will remain on scripture points and not on imagations that are vaunted upon you.

"I thought I had finally passed that test in your eyes Squint? Go recheck. Im not going to go through the same test over and over again every time I meet up with you

Then by now you should realize that when the truth of the separation that exists here between mankind and devil kind is brought to the flesh, that the power of that entity class is HEIGHTENED, so make of that what you will.

My friends make clean cuts.

Although it was a nice chat Squint it was pretty wearisome with all the questions, inspections back and forth (chopping paragraphs into quarters) and having to answer to them. I just ended a three post (1000 page EACH) roll over thing I finally ended last night and Im not jumping on another one ya hear?

If you carried the Sword, you'd use it continually.

I say that right now upfront because I know how our last one went. If you want to know what I think or need a refresher of our conversation please recheck your "find all posts" link and move to that conversation LOL

I'm not into obscurity.

Angelmom hasnt accused "mankind".

Haven't gotten that far yet, but I do see her laying plenty upon our fellow man under various guises and not broaching the subject of the role of the devil and his messengers in these matters. ding.

But because she does not see the principal of the flesh pertaining to the "epidermis" (after a carnal truth) you need her to jump through the same hoops you made me jump through. She has not accused mankind as you think (you cannot even quote where she has).

What she bears can speak for itself. I don't need your spin as a filter.

Werent we all fulfilling THE LUSTS OF ~THE FLESH~ (Which we are BY NATURE) after a spiritual truth?

Gods offspring do not sin, NOR is sin laid to mankinds account or counted upon THEM in ANY FORM. So your "we" is a false "we." Sin may very well transpire in flesh and mind and such activity is strictly of the DEVIL, not "we" or your fellow man, so you may not have fallen as far from the accusers tree as you supposed.

And in the same the LUST OF THE (CARNAL) MIND. In these (the flesh) and (of the mind) we ourselves were regarded as children of wrath.

Ignorance is also forgiven to Gods offspring and NOT counted.

Does that MEAN the natural man can be subject to the law? No but it doesnt make those other things any less true.

The various shades that are available to condemn and accuse our fellow man are easy enough to see.

As you already know I will not have a 6 inch devil conversation with you Squint (if you head there)

hmmm??? Another reference to a "measured devil." Have you EVER heard me say that? No. So why LIE about it?

I do not measure an "anti-Christ" spirit in "inches" or "size." I do know unequivocally by Word that the anti-Christ spirit(s) exist and that "mankind" Gods offspring all are "subject to" such workings in the flesh and mind.

Nice try though.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Utah Knight]

Hell is being seperated from God because it came from the original Gohenna AKA the common grave. I do not believe in the common belief as beinga firey place because nowhere does it mention a firey etearnal suffering to my knowledge

 

[Fireinfolding]

Well, I see you just can't quite bring yourself to answer simple questions, which is answer in itself.

I already did answer it in the POST ABOVE IT You BREEZED OVER. You read my last post (posted TO MYSELF not TO YOU) So please dont quote "me" where I QUOTED MYSELF quote ME on ME "TO YOU"

Your flesh is your flesh, but that STILL doesn't mean that YOU are the "evil influence" upon same or that those same evil influences are not given to you AS YOUR BURDEN TO BEAR by God no different than the particular messenger of Satan that God gave Paul. dig?

Flesh is flesh Squint, I never said otherwise. Where exactly are you having the problem? Which VERSE are you questioning me on? Your rolling them around and questioning them, adding your own questions (which are not my own) to them.

I dont have the same questions as you Squint, and Im not the bible answer man or one who needs to answer TO YOU concerning HIS WORDS. Where I add on this form I add and where I cannot I dont. Its called not going beyond ones "measure". But I will not be pushed into a place where you feel its my obligation to answer to your own questions because I have "my own". Im not fond of an inquisitional approach.

If you have a prob with a verse, its mistranslated please add, but dont try to make me answer to the way you reason with a thing over a few verses. Point out the problem in the verse, I dont answer for the verses, if you feel the "need to expond" (marvellous your free to) everyones got a "spin" if you want to "add to" great, but Im not answering to you on the basis of verses I hit copy paste on dig?

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Fireinfolding]

Again, merely your reflection of where you think it's headed. If you agreed you would have no need to complain, so I guess we should cut to the rubs and see what polishes out.

IF you believe all mankind are saved, THEN logic dictates AND presents a SEPARATE entity class upon which to PLACE JUDGMENT and CONDEMNATION, which is the final analysis of HELL/eternal torment/separation/annihilation.



And again, you are not the only party involved in that process, scripturally speaking so don't be so quick to BLAME and ACCUSE only "the man." In fact you should bring no blame to Gods offspring for those thoughts whatsoever.



We have not touched on that subject yet, but the carnal man/person is and remains an IGNORANT SLAVE and they ARE SO by their NOT understanding the DIVISION between what they are controlled by and themselves....they are not SLAVES of themselves.



Paul quite clearly stated that the sin that indwelt his flesh was NO LONGER I. Any attempt to make Paul prior or post conversion that which was NO LONGER I will remain a LIE of the EVIL influence that is upon the flesh.


The "law of sin" that Paul discovered was that when GODS LAWS came upon him, the SIN INDWELLING HIS FLESH was both aroused and empowered, so DON'T try to move the sin indwelling into a "law of sin." The law of sin is the reaction of sin to the law and that reaction is a built in auto-response of sin indwelling.



False reflection again. How (what is in you) spins does not equate to what I write.


There is no suspicions on this subject whatsoever. Everyone is a "carrier" and the proof of the carrier and "what they carry" is multifold in nature and expressions.

One of the expressions is the denial of a separate entity class of the devil and his messengers. This particular form of denial is very powerful among the so called christian universalists.

Another form and most common form is to blame and accuse our fellow man and the condemnation of them to fry alive forever, which is easily seen "in the churches" common.


Again a false spin. My test sets will remain on scripture points and not on imagations that are vaunted upon you.


Then by now you should realize that when the truth of the separation that exists here between mankind and devil kind is brought to the flesh, that the power of that entity class is HEIGHTENED, so make of that what you will.

My friends make clean cuts.



If you carried the Sword, you'd use it continually.



I'm not into obscurity.



Haven't gotten that far yet, but I do see her laying plenty upon our fellow man under various guises and not broaching the subject of the role of the devil and his messengers in these matters. ding.


What she bears can speak for itself. I don't need your spin as a filter.


Gods offspring do not sin, NOR is sin laid to mankinds account or counted upon THEM in ANY FORM. So your "we" is a false "we." Sin may very well transpire in flesh and mind and such activity is strictly of the DEVIL, not "we" or your fellow man, so you may not have fallen as far from the accusers tree as you supposed.


Ignorance is also forgiven to Gods offspring and NOT counted.


The various shades that are available to condemn and accuse our fellow man are easy enough to see.


hmmm??? Another reference to a "measured devil." Have you EVER heard me say that? No. So why LIE about it?

I do not measure an "anti-Christ" spirit in "inches" or "size." I do know unequivocally by Word that the anti-Christ spirit(s) exist and that "mankind" Gods offspring all are "subject to" such workings in the flesh and mind.

Nice try though.

enjoy!

squint

I already told ya Squint, right now I am not biting or "going there". Im not doing that tons of "little sentences" broken up which reequires tedious responding time to wrestle with your thoughts. Sorry, but Im just not in the mood for reasons already explained.

Though, If I have a question I thought you could answer Squint, I would be sure to ask you but I simply don't have one for you. We do not reason things out the same. Your wrestlings and my own dont find similiar paterns in thought so we would most likely talk past each other.

Right at this moment Im not looking for long drawn out back and forth conversation because Im worn out from putting myself out too much from another.

Its nothing to feel bad about because if you wanted to, you could look at "my weariness" to converse as an excuse or even a kinda "victory thing" for yourself

Take it while Im weary, because I certainly dont stay there

I'll tap you on the shoulder when Im ready ok?

 

[angelmom01]

Well, it's easy enough to give direct answers. So humor me. Is there a separate entity class that is NOT mankind called the devil and his messengers?

Yes or no is sufficient.



I accuse NONE of mankind for accusing mankind.



Oh? Again how you read what I wrote is what you are reflecting, not what I wrote.



Great. How then would you seek to apply judgment and damnation scriptures?



Dancing ain't gonna change the fact. My prior observation remains.

Squint, I really have no intention of "humoring" you. Sorry. Just like Fire, I have been down this road with you before and it is not a road that I wish to go down again, right now. I was only trying to clarify for Tavita, I know that I am not going to persuade you (nor you me).

We do not see these things the same, though I can agree with much of what you say (but in the context of how *I* see and understand these things).

So please feel free to stand on your prior observation.

 

[Tavita]

Squint, I really have no intention of "humoring" you. Sorry. Just like Fire, I have been down this road with you before and it is not a road that I wish to go down again, right now. I was only trying to clarify for Tavita, I know that I am not going to persuade you (nor you me).

We do not see these things the same, though I can agree with much of what you say (but in the context of how *I* see and understand these things).

So please feel free to stand on your prior observation.

I do thank you, Angelmom, for trying to clarify for me, and you did an excellent job of it.

I didn't go any further with squint because I knew it'd be a frustrating, fruitless discussion. I didn't know you and Fire had both done the rounds before...