What is hell?

[HypoTypoSis]

Your right, God is always right. As I have mentioned I don't like thinking about family being there

I do find your passion for this topic interesting and wonder what is your driving motivator for your actions.

Simply seeking the truth of God's word and not willing to assume what I was raised to believe as true is, in fact, true if it does not match with scripture.

All too often it is far too easy to assume a passage means something (because we were raised to assume so without thinking) when, in fact, if we look closer at it we see it means nothing of the kind.

Again, as a prime example, we see that life and resurrection is ONLY possible through Jesus Christ:

John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

So, how can the dead be resurrected since resurrection is only possible through Jesus and only for those in Christ?

Seriously, what's wrong with tackling JUST this John 11:25 verse and coming to a definitive conclusion about it and if, indeed, it is true then must not our other preconceived conceptions that do not align with this--must they not also be realigned?

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

I have spent a large majority of my life as a nonchristian. Don't think I came to my conlusions about hell because that was what I was taught by someone else. I have been learning Greek and have taken countless classes in hermeneutics. I can tell you that the Bible does clearly mean to say there is eternal life and suffering for nonchristians. I know you have your mind set and to be honest with you I wish this thread would just die but I guess my posting doesn't help that to happen.

Simply seeking the truth of God's word and not willing to assume what I was raised to believe as true is, in fact, true if it does not match with scripture.

All too often it is far too easy to assume a passage means something (because we were raised to assume so without thinking) when, in fact, if we look closer at it we see it means nothing of the kind.

Again, as a prime example, we see that life and resurrection is ONLY possible through Jesus Christ:

John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

So, how can the dead be resurrected since resurrection is only possible through Jesus and only for those in Christ?

Seriously, what's wrong with tackling JUST this John 11:25 verse and coming to a definitive conclusion about it and if, indeed, it is true then must not our other preconceived conceptions that do not align with this--must they not also be realigned?

 

[Easystreet]

That is myth and hearsay born of humanist New Age neo Universal/Unitarian thought and has absolutely no foundation in scripture.

Separation form everything - Outer Darkness - No light - no contact with life or other lost people. All alone completely.

One​

The Bible Says: Outer Darkness Matthew 8:12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
You Say: That is myth and hearsay born of humanist New Age neo Universal/Unitarian thought and has absolutely no foundation in scripture.

Two​

​

​

The Bible Says: Matthew 22:13. "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

You Say: That is myth and hearsay born of humanist New Age neo Universal/Unitarian thought and has absolutely no foundation in scripture.

Three​

The Bible Says: Matthew 25:30. "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You Say: That is myth and hearsay born of humanist New Age neo Universal/Unitarian thought and has absolutely no foundation in scripture.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

I have been learning Greek

Then you know Jesus never spoke Greek and, with that, we return to Jesus' words in the passage below.

Does Jesus mean what He says and does He say what He means and is there no way around it?

John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

How can the unsaved dead be resurrected since resurrection is only possible through Jesus and only for those in Christ?

 

[Easystreet]

Then you know Jesus never spoke Greek and, with that, we return to Jesus' words in the passage below.

Does Jesus mean what He says and does He say what He means and is there no way around it?

John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

How can the unsaved dead be resurrected since resurrection is only possible through Jesus and only for those in Christ?

HyPoTyPO,

What gives? I would like to know a few thing if you don't mind.

One are you a JW?

If not are you a Baptist?

If so what kind?

If not what are you?

Thanks

Gordon

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

You certainly seem to know a lot of things that are not in the Bible. How can you be so certain Jesus didn't speak any Greek? Greek was the trade language of the day just as English is today.

Then you know Jesus never spoke Greek and, with that, we return to Jesus' words in the passage below.

Does Jesus mean what He says and does He say what He means and is there no way around it?

John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

How can the unsaved dead be resurrected since resurrection is only possible through Jesus and only for those in Christ?

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Separation form everything - Outer Darkness - No light - no contact with life or other lost people. All alone completely.

Now that is Hell un-thinkable It is what I believe the bible is telling us.

One​

The Bible Says: Outer Darkness Matthew 8:12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
You Say: That is myth and hearsay born of humanist New Age neo Universal/Unitarian thought and has absolutely no foundation in scripture.

Two​

The Bible Says: Matthew 22:13. "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

You Say: That is myth and hearsay born of humanist New Age neo Universal/Unitarian thought and has absolutely no foundation in scripture.

Three​

The Bible Says: Matthew 25:30. "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You Say: That is myth and hearsay born of humanist New Age neo Universal/Unitarian thought and has absolutely no foundation in scripture.

Study the scriptures, please.

These passages deal with Jews, not Chrisians; has nothing to do with eternal torment; and speaks specifically to the time of Israel's wedding and the feast. It does not speak to people being thrown in the pagans' place of torment. That is an ASSUMPTION that is not specifically stated in scripture.

There is no light needed as The Almighty and The Lamb are the light.

It does not speak to the unsaved. It specifically states 'sons',. 'servants' and 'slaves'.

The unsaved are never referred to as 'sons', 'servants' or 'slaves'.

Are you a 'son'? Are you a 'servant'? Are you a 'slave' to Christ?

 

[HypoTypoSis]

HyPoTyPO,

What gives? I would like to know a few thing if you don't mind.

One are you a JW?
never

If not are you a Baptist?
Since 1964

If so what kind?
SBC

If not what are you?
And, you?

Thanks

Gordon

Though, considering the changes within the SBC over the years I've been wondering. I like the name FWB better but that does not have completely embody the Berean quality I prefer either.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

How can you be so certain Jesus didn't speak any Greek? Greek was the trade language of the day just as English is today.

No, sir.
Think about it.
Who was the occupying country of the time?
It wasn't Greece.
Nor did they speak Latin.
The Jews did not even speak their own language at the time except on rare occassions in Temple services.
Aramaic.

 

[mont974x4]

If there is no hell, or place of eternal punishment, then what happens to non-beleivers?

If there is no eternal punishment, as Scripture tells us (including Jesus Himself in Matthew), wouldn't that make Jesus a liar and deny the just character of God and cheapen His gift of grace and salvation?

 

[HypoTypoSis]

If there is no eternal punishment, as Scripture tells us (including Jesus Himself in Matthew), wouldn't that make Jesus a liar and deny the just character of God and cheapen His gift of grace and salvation?

Is it not more correct to say that is just your understanding of scripture?

Is it not, as you say, to make Jesus a liar and to deny the character of God by claiming eternal torment exists.

Did Jesus not say:

John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

How can the unsaved dead be resurrected since resurrection is only possible through Jesus and only for those in Christ?

Is not out of character for God and His Son on one hand to advocate eternal torment when, on the other hand:

1. We are to believe God wants us to be like Him, like His Son, Jesus Christ.
2. That we are to be forgiving.
3. That we not are to seek wrath and vengeance upon those who do not accept us.
4. That we are not to seek their unending torment because once a long time ago they said something unkind to us or did not offer us a glass of lemonade on a hot day.
5. That there is to be an end to our wrath.
6. That the sun should never go down on our anger and never arise on it in the morning.
7. Surely we are to emulate God in all things everywhere all the time.
8. So if God is going to act unforgiving and vengeful to aborigines of 3 and 4 thousand years ago who never heard of God or His Son then we should act at least the same to suicide bombers, Taliban, Al A|Quaeda, radical Islamist, illegal Mexicans, emplyers who get rich on minimum wage 2 legged forklifts as they break their backs thanklessly, surely we're not supposed to threat THOSE kinds of employers as though they were Jesus!

How can we be Godly and Christ-like if He is not going to practice what He preaches?

Since we know He does practice what He preaches then we know it is our understanding of eternal torment that is not in line with God.

 

[mont974x4]

is it eternal punishment or not?

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Did Jesus not say:

John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

How can the unsaved dead be resurrected since resurrection is only possible through Jesus and only for those in Christ?

 

[mont974x4]

Christ is the Judge and He is the resurection. Looking at all the Scritpure it is apparent that even the unsaved will be raised from their earthly death in order to be judged along with the saved. Then we will either suffer eternal punishment or we will have eternal life in heaven.


I see no Scripture that supports the idea that the unsaved simply cease to exist.

 

[mont974x4]

Hell is real and I praise God for loving us enough that He sent His Son to save us. I look forward to the day I am in Heaven with all my brothers and sisters. I also pray that more people avoid hell and its eternal punishment

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire;
Mar 9:44 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if thy foot cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life halt, rather than having thy two feet to be cast into hell;
Mar 9:46 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye cause thee to stumble, cast it out: it is good for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell;
Mar 9:48 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched
Luk 16:19 Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, faring sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 and a certain beggar named Lazarus was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table; yea, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.
Luk 16:23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but now here he is comforted, and thou art in anguish.
Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us.
Luk 16:27 And he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house;
Luk 16:28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[mont974x4]

Both the righteous and the unrighteous will be resurected...just to diferent things. Pray for the lost that they may also find His peace, grace, and mercy.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.


Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the Way which they call a sect, so serve I the God of our fathers, believing all things which are according to the law, and which are written in the prophets;
Act 24:15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Christ...[]...He is the resurection. Looking at all the Scritpure

First, God has blessed some with gifts of discernment, do you know if that your spiritual gift? If not, what are they?

Second, there are many christs but only one true Christ and that is Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Cult and pagan adherents cannot personally and affirmatively make that statement, it is anathema to them just as it is to the demons and devils.

Third, Only Jesus is THE resurrection & THE life. Either that is 100% true or it is not.

Fourth, let's not look at "all the other scriptures", not yet anyway, this one first has to be resolved. Bouncing around indiscriminately tossing out verses does not settle anything, all it ever does is end up avoiding the issue at hand and is 100% devoid of true study of God's word and only brings shame upon God. One thing at a time.

Fifth, If this verse is 100% true then it must be admitted that our previous understandings of other verses are incomplete &/or in error. To claim otherwise is to indirectly claim we know all there is to know about God and His word and that puts us on par with God and our pride out front between Him and us. No one knows it all. Every time we study a passage again we walk away with a new and deeper understanding. Everytime.

Sixth, never be so naive as to assume you know all there is to know about the cults and the pagan religions. We are never called to battle the evil forces that be, only to find those whom God foreknows and point them in the right direction.

Seventh, just in case the shoe fits: be careful to whom and of what you gossip about in life or in PM's; to do so will always steer you wrong and inevitably get you into trouble everytime.

Eighth, never make assumptions based on facts not yet entered into evidence; first the foundation must always be layed before moving on. This is a very big problem for many, first they say, "I believe" and immediately they jump into the hard gristly meat of the deeper scriptural things and their first tooth hasn't even poked through their milk soaked gums yet and all they end up with is a scattered smattering mishmash of what they think they believe never being able to state why they believe what they believe. All things in good time, God will take care of the rest.

Ninth, So...back to the verse under discussion:

Did Jesus say the following?

John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

Is it 100% irrefutably correct?

If your answer is "yes" then is it in line with that verse to say the answer to the following question is "no, they can't be resurrected"?

How can the unsaved dead be resurrected since resurrection is only possible through Jesus and only for those in Christ?

If your answer is "no" then--why not and what are the repercussions of that answer?

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Hell is real and I praise God for loving us enough that He sent His Son to save us. I look forward to the day I am in Heaven with all my brothers and sisters. I also pray that more people avoid hell and its eternal punishment

Mat 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:46And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

Mar 9:43And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire;
Mar 9:44where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45And if thy foot cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life halt, rather than having thy two feet to be cast into hell;
Mar 9:46where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47And if thine eye cause thee to stumble, cast it out: it is good for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell;
Mar 9:48where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched
Luk 16:19Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, faring sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20and a certain beggar named Lazarus was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table; yea, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.
Luk 16:23And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.
Luk 16:25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but now here he is comforted, and thou art in anguish.
Luk 16:26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us.
Luk 16:27And he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house;
Luk 16:28for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

I, too, have 66 books containing a few odd thousand chapters and many times more than that in verses in my own computer bible also. Would you like me to post them, too, as you did--with no real substantive discussion attached thereto?

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Sorry to say this but you certainly don't know your history if you think there was no way Jesus spoke any Greek. I certainly would like you to tell us where you have learned things like this. You can't say the Bible since the Bible doesn't talk about what languages Jesus didn't speak.

No, sir.
Think about it.
Who was the occupying country of the time?
It wasn't Greece.
Nor did they speak Latin.
The Jews did not even speak their own language at the time except on rare occassions in Temple services.
Aramaic.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Is it likely Jesus was conversant in various languages? Of course! But what was the language He spoke is presenting His gospel message?

If He wanted to it is quite likely He could have spoken in every modern day language of today two thousand years ago. Afterall, Satan took Him up on a high hill and showed Him all the great civilizations which, to me, includes the United States and all contemporary civilizations.

If Jesus came today to the US what language would He, in all likelihood, predominantly speak and would He be presenting His message to the wealthy, the politicians, the aristocrats or would He mainly come speaking with everyday people in their common everyday language?

BAR

The Language of the Gospel

What Language Did Jesus Christ Speak?

What Language Did Jesus Really Speak During His Ministry?

What Language Did Jesus Speak and Why Does It Matter?

What Language Did Jesus Speak?

What Language Did Jesus Speak?

Enough of sidetracking rabbit trails...back on track to the question at hand:

Did Jesus say the following?

John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

Is this 100% irrefutably correct?