What is good?

[Gary K]

Yes, I'm determined to believe what Scripture presents, unless you can Biblically demonstrate that what I believe is in error.

Ok. You're determined to believe that loving the God who never changes supremely means setting up your own rules and setting aside His commands no matter when He gave them. I can't change your mind as only the HS can do that. It's waaaay above my pay grade.

 

[DamianWarS]

How do we show to others our rest in Christ from our own works to save?

rest is salvation

 

[Clare73]

Ok. You're determined to believe that loving the God who never changes supremely means setting up your own rules and setting aside His commands no matter when He gave them. I can't change your mind as only the HS can do that. It's waaaay above my pay grade.

Not when you set Scripture against itself.

 

[Gary K]

Not when you set Scripture against itself.

I haven't. I live by something called righteousness by faith and God has made his law who I am. It thus comes natural to obey Him. I haven't been doing this for very long, only three or four months as I just discovered it a few months ago but my life has changed greatly. It's easier now to obey Him than disobey Him.

It was an eyeopener to me as I've believed for decades that sanctification was the work of a lifetime. Why I don't know because when I was converted God released me from the power drugs had over my life. I was a psychologically addicted pot smoker and the hardest part of overcoming an addiction is the psychological addiction as drugs burn out the pleasure center of the brain. I would walk down the sidewalk, pass someone who had been smoking pot, and get all the physical symptoms of being stoned yet I had no desire to get stoned. It was a flat out miracle as I hadn't been without being stoned all day for years. He even gave me my mind back as I was so burned out I couldn't hold down a job pushing a broom and I had once had a pretty remarkable IQ. He restored all that. I owe Him everything I am.

 

[timothyu]

We can do nothing to save ourselves. But we can show we are saved by doing what God commanded... putting His will first which is helping others in times of need as we would hope they would do for us. Loving all as self.

 

[Clare73]

I haven't. I live by something called righteousness by faith

Keeping in mind that the righteousness (justification) that is by faith is only forensic (dikaiosis), it is not actual.
Actual righteousness is through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16-19).

and God has made his law who I am. It thus comes natural to obey Him. I haven't been doing this for very long, only three or four months as I just discovered it a few months ago but my life has changed greatly. It's easier now to obey Him than disobey Him.

And that is actual righteousness through obedience of faith.

It was an eyeopener to me as I've believed for decades that sanctification was the work of a lifetime. Why I don't know because when I was converted God released me from the power drugs had over my life. I was a psychologically addicted pot smoker and the hardest part of overcoming an addiction is the psychological addiction as drugs burn out the pleasure center of the brain. I would walk down the sidewalk, pass someone who had been smoking pot, and get all the physical symptoms of being stoned yet I had no desire to get stoned. It was a flat out miracle as I hadn't been without being stoned all day for years. He even gave me my mind back as I was so burned out I couldn't hold down a job pushing a broom and I had once had a pretty remarkable IQ. He restored all that. I owe Him everything I am.

Wow! Praise God!

 

[Gary K]

Keeping in mind that the righteous (justification) that is by faith is only forensic (dikaiosis), it is not actual.
Actual righteousness is through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16-19).

And that is actual righteousness through obedience of faith.

Wow! Praise God!

You are mistaken on your assertion that the righteousness of Christ is only justification.

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

The word translated as righteousness means justification in the Greek so Jesus is our all-in-one source of righteousness. This concept is found throughout the OT and NT. Here is just one example found in the OT.

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you

Our righteousness has always been found in God and in no other place for our sinfulness is found at the level of out DNA since we inherited it from Adam and Eve.

 

[Clare73]

You are mistaken on your assertion that the righteousness of Christ is only justification.

In the NT there is:

1) imputed righteousness (justification, dikaiosis) - the definition of which is a declaration of "not guilty," a sentence of acquittal, a finding of right standing with the Court; i.e., penalty paid, time served, no debt owing.
By definition it is a forensic righteousness, not an actual righteousness.

2) actual righteousness[/ (sanctification) - which is through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness, leading to holiness (Ro 6:16-19).

3) Christ, our righteousness (1 Co 1:30) - who absolves us of our sin/unrighteousness on the cross.

 

[Gary K]

In the NT there is:

1) imputed righteousness (justification, dikaiosis) - the definition of which is a declaration of "not guilty," a sentence of acquittal, a finding of right standing with the Court; i.e., penalty paid, time served, no debt owing.
By definition it is a forensic righteousness, not an actual righteousness.

2) actual righteousness[/ (sanctification) - which is through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness, leading to holiness (Ro 6:16-19).

3) Christ, our righteousness (1 Co 1:30) - who absolves us of our sin/unrighteousness on the cross.

I think we are close to understanding each other. Jesus gives us two types of righteousness, imputed and imparted (sanctification) for as Paul says He is made unto us wisdom, justification, sanctification, and redemption. Yes, we achieve being made like Jesus through the HS but Jesus lives in us through the HS and that is made possible by Jesus' life, death and resurrection.

 

[Clare73]

I think we are close to understanding each other. Jesus gives us two types of righteousness, imputed and imparted (sanctification) for as Paul says He is made unto us wisdom, justification, sanctification, and redemption. [/B] Yes, we achieve being made like Jesus through the HS but Jesus lives in us through the HS and that is made possible by Jesus' life, death and resurrection.

Indeed, we are.

But it is not given by Jesus, it is given by the Father because of Jesus.
The "imputed" righteousness of justification is not the "Christ our righteousness" of 1Co 1:30.

The imputed righteousness of justifiction is a declaration by God of "not guilty."

1) The "Christ, our righteousness" (1 Co 1:30) is Christ removing our unrighteousness on the cross,

2) whereby God then declares us forensically, not actually, righteous (justification), and
3) then we acquire actual righteousness through obedience in the Holy Spirit, which leads to righteousness, leading to holiness (Ro 6:16-19).

So actually, justification (imputed forensic righteousness) is a declaration of "not guilty" by the Father, as the result of the Father applying the Son's atonement to one's sin through faith.

So it is justification (declaration) by the Father because of the Son's atonement, not justification by the Son.

 

[Mark Quayle]

That isn't a valid reason. It must be taught in scripture that humanity is justified in setting aside God's law.

I would be surprised if you don't, as a Christian, tend to refer to the NT church for method and norm of church activity in most other ways, but for some reason you reject this?

 

[Gary K]

I would be surprised if you don't, as a Christian, tend to refer to the NT church for method and norm of church activity in most other ways, but for some reason you reject this?

God is always correct in everything whether it is in the OT or the NT. One part of the Bible doesn't conflict with another part of the Bible for God doesn't argue with Himself, nor does He give conflicting commands.

Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

 

[Mark Quayle]

God is always correct in everything whether it is in the OT or the NT. One part of the Bible doesn't conflict with another part of the Bible for God doesn't argue with Himself, nor does He give conflicting commands.

You would have the freedom in Christ remain slave to the law. Ok. Enjoy.

 

[Gary K]

You would have the freedom in Christ remain slave to the law. Ok. Enjoy.

That's an odd response according to Peter.

2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

I would far rather be God's slave than the devil's. He is just and merciful the devil is the opposite.

 

[Mark Quayle]

That's an odd response according to Peter.



I would far rather be God's slave than the devil's. He is just and merciful the devil is the opposite.

That's an odd response. Who's talking about being a slave to the devil?

 

[Gary K]

That's an odd response. Who's talking about being a slave to the devil?

I did. I don't mind being a slave to God. In fact, I love it. There is no higher calling that I can think of than to call Jesus Master as His disciples did.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I did. I don't mind being a slave to God. In fact, I love it. There is no higher calling that I can think of than to call Jesus Master as His disciples did.

Of course. Why did you bring up being a slave of he devil?

 

[Gary K]

Of course. Why did you bring up being a slave of he devil?

Because Peter tells us that whoever is overcome by someone is in bondage to them. When are overcome and we sin we are in bondage to the devil. It's pretty straightforward.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Because Peter tells us that whoever is overcome by someone is in bondage to them. When are overcome and we sin we are in bondage to the devil. It's pretty straightforward.

Of course it's straightforward. So what does that have to do with God not contradicting himself in the OT law telling the Children of Israel to observe the Sabbath, and the NT church meeting weekly on the first day of the week?

You keep on and on about things we agree on as if it somehow makes your point, but you don't show how it makes your point.

 

[Gary K]

Of course it's straightforward. So what does that have to do with God not contradicting himself in the OT law telling the Children of Israel to observe the Sabbath, and the NT church meeting weekly on the first day of the week?

You keep on and on about things we agree on as if it somehow makes your point, but you don't show how it makes your point.

You misunderstand who I am. I'm not here to debate. I present truth and leave it up to those who disagree with me to accept or reject it. That's what Jesus did and as He is my Master I do the same.

I used to be someone who would debate until the cows came home because I thought it was my job to do the work of the HS and try to change people's hearts. I've come to realize how arrogant that attitude is so I stopped doing that and have begun trying to be more like Jesus as that is now the goal of my life. I'm new to such an attitude but God will finish changing me.