WHAT IS GOD'S GRACE FOR?

LoveGodsWord · Jul 7, 2021

genez said:
Angels were able procreate with human women in Genesis 6 just before the flood.

The "sons of God" are not angels. The scripture are talking about believers mixing with unbelievers. Angels neither marry or are given in marriage - Matthew 22:30. Anyhow, can you please stay on topic to the OP. Thanks for your understanding.

FredVB · Sep 2, 2021

I am sure God's grace is a part of God's nature. God can discern how to use the grace, but grace is not being withheld. God wants our response, and there is more grace shown with our response when it's there.

FredVB · Sep 3, 2021

Certainly still, we all need God's grace. We can respond, and have more of God's grace to us, but we are not doing so well to not need the grace from God that we get. We should grow, spiritually, while still there remain things in us that we fall short of what there should be, even while we still don't see those as sins, and there are wrong things we do that we remain blind to those being sin, and hurting any is involved in that.

GenemZ · Sep 3, 2021

FredVB said:
Certainly still, we all need God's grace. We can respond, and have more of God's grace to us, but we are not doing so well to not need the grace from God that we get. We should grow, spiritually, while still there remain things in us that we fall short of what there should be, even while we still don't see those as sins, and there are wrong things we do that we remain blind to those being sin, and hurting any is involved in that.

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power
is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the
more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest
on me." 2 Cor 12:9

Grace is God's enabling power by means of the indwelling Holy Spirit, giving us the power to become more and more as God would have wanted us to be if we were not fallen. Grace is God's power in the process of transforming us into thinking and acting in a manner God approves of.

We are fallen creatures who need God's grace to behave as if we are not fallen. That can only be achieved according to how much we are willing to seek and live by God's Word, and then accept it.

Those who seek and prefer false teaching to suit their own desire have "fallen from grace."

Clare73 · Sep 3, 2021

genez said:
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power
is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the
more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest
on me." 2 Cor 12:9

Grace is God's enabling power by means of the indwelling Holy Spirit, giving us the power to become more and more as God would have wanted us to be if we were not fallen. Grace is God's power in the process of transforming us into thinking and acting in a manner God approves of.

We are fallen creatures who need God's grace to behave as if we are not fallen. That can only be achieved according to how much we are willing to seek and live by God's Word, and then accept it.

Those who seek and prefer false teaching to suit their own desire have "fallen from grace."

That's a great application, even thougb it is not exactly what Paul meant, he referring to works.

FredVB · Sep 6, 2021

genez said:
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power
is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the
more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest
on me." 2 Cor 12:9

Grace is God's enabling power by means of the indwelling Holy Spirit, giving us the power to become more and more as God would have wanted us to be if we were not fallen. Grace is God's power in the process of transforming us into thinking and acting in a manner God approves of.

We are fallen creatures who need God's grace to behave as if we are not fallen. That can only be achieved according to how much we are willing to seek and live by God's Word, and then accept it.

Those who seek and prefer false teaching to suit their own desire have "fallen from grace."

Yes, God's grace helps believers in their weakness. They do have to recognize their weakness, and also want to change to more godliness, even if it means giving some things up in which they had pleasure. That is not easy. Are you sure you care for the perfect will of God, that it shows in your life? It is not the same as remaining with things God just permits for now.

GenemZ · Sep 6, 2021

FredVB said:
Yes, God's grace helps believers in their weakness. They do have to recognize their weakness, and also want to change to more godliness, even if it means giving some things up in which they had pleasure. That is not easy. Are you sure you care for the perfect will of God, that it shows in your life? It is not the same as remaining with things God just permits for now.

Grace is God's POWER to transform and change from what is weak to what is manifested righteousness.

He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature
in Christ. To this end I strenuously contend with all the energy
Christ so powerfully works in me." Col 1:28-29

Grace is not God simply making space for us to let us choose to change our ways to become good little boys and girls. Behind the change is his power (grace) to make what the change was to be manifested! We take on a new nature when we walk in grace.

Its not like willing to do something right as one does when under Law. Its not following some church program. We literally find ourselves transformed into doing the right thing without following any regulation to make us concentrate and will to do so.

grace and peace .........

GenemZ · Sep 6, 2021

FredVB said:
Yes, God's grace helps believers in their weakness.

God does not solely help those IN their weaknesses. God helps because of their weaknesses. In their weakness He provides the power to stop being weak by grace.

Grace does not leave them in their weakness to merely comfort/help them. For some people wish to use their weaknesses as their excuse to claim that God is merciful and forgiving, while forever remaining in their weaknesses as their claim to God's love. Like homosexuals who attend church, and claim that God is blessing their marriage by grace.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor
drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of
God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you
were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus
and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor 6:9-11

He did not simply help them 'in' their weaknesses. God helped them to get out of their weakness!

And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you
were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

There is a subtle, but big difference there. To get out of one's weaknesses via grace transformational power of the filling of the Spirit... When the Lord's grace is resting upon you, you cease living in your weaknesses... So, we can be strong in our pursuit in growing more and more in the knowledge of God's Word.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 6, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
CONCLUSION: Grace is unmerited favor leading to a change of behavior. God's GRACE IS FOR OBEDIENCE to the faith (God's Word) in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW it to save us from our sins and the penalty of sin (death) and our sinful nature through our LORD JESUS CHRIST!

God's grace is given so we will have room to repent even when we're afflicted with pride.

The best picture of what God's Grace is from Romans Chapter 2.

1 ¶ Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

The kindness of God leads us to repentance, so in interest of imitating God, be kind if you want people to repent. Don't stop if you don't get the desired results within your own timeline.

The judgey game the colonial preachers taught us through a broken telephone is toxic spirituality, and results in playing the same blame game that resulted in the original humans being cast out of God's presence in Eden.

GenemZ · Sep 6, 2021

Michael Collum said:
God's grace is given so we will have room to repent even when we're afflicted with pride.

God's 'mercy' and 'patience' is given so we have room to repent.

Grace is God's enabling power given to those who are humble before God and repent.

The grace power is enabling power to make the repentant one able to not keep committing the same sin in weakness... Grace counters our natural weaknesses with God's enabling power to make us function as if we were are not weak.

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power
is made perfect in weakness.”

Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses,
so that Christ’s power may rest on me." 2 cor 12:19

Grace is not so much unmerited favor. After all.. God's grace produces in believers behavior which will merit God's favor!

God is pleased with those who choose to walk in grace and sound doctrine. The foundation for grace is found in being filled with the Spirit who indwells us.

That is exactly why God wants us to learn to walk in grace and truth! Grace gives us His righteousness that is not our own. For God approves and sees merit when He sees the fruit of grace ruling in our lives.

When we have our resurrection bodies? Then we will have a righteousness that will be our own. We will be not needing grace any longer for weaknesses attributed to the fall. At that point I believe God's grace will shift priorities to enable the resurrected with power for us to do mighty works that God will have planned for us to do in eternity.

We only see now in part. The big picture of God's grace is not yet upon us! Its yet to come.

However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him." 1 cor 2:9

grace and peace ....

LoveGodsWord · Sep 10, 2021

QUESTIONS (scripture support for your answers please)

1. Is Gods Grace and salvation conditional on believing and following what God's Word says?
2. Can we receive God's Grace and mercy if we do not believe and follow what God's Word says?
3. What is God's grace for and what are the conditions for receiving it? (scripture)

May God bless you all as you seek Him through His Word.

FredVB · Sep 12, 2021

We need God's grace as we are helpless for coming to needed betterment on our own without any of that from God. God provides grace to any, but there is not all the response to it. Some don't come to faith, which includes believing, with trust in which to act, with repentance. And none of us respond fully.

GenemZ · Sep 12, 2021

FredVB said:
We need God's grace as we are helpless for coming to needed betterment on our own without any of that from God. God provides grace to any, but there is not all the response to it. Some don't come to faith, which includes believing, with trust in which to act, with repentance. And none of us respond fully.

That's good for children. But, after all that you mention?

You must begin growing in becoming more and more like Christ by learning more and more knowledge of sound doctrinal teachings.. to the day we die!

2 Peter 3:18, in the Greek means to be continuously growing ... To be growing up to become an adult. No longer wishing to be as a child. For the Father will kick us out of the nest like an eagle and we must begin to fly, or die.

But be continuously growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

................

FredVB · Sep 14, 2021

We need God's grace as we are helpless for coming to needed betterment on our own without any of that from God. God provides grace to any, but there is not all the response to it. Some don't come to faith, which includes believing, with trust in which to act, with repentance. And none of us respond fully.

genez said:
That's good for children. But, after all that you mention?

You must begin growing in becoming more and more like Christ by learning more and more knowledge of sound doctrinal teachings.. to the day we die!

2 Peter 3:18, in the Greek means to be continuously growing ... To be growing up to become an adult. No longer wishing to be as a child. For the Father will kick us out of the nest like an eagle and we must begin to fly, or die.

But be continuously growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
................

What about what I mention, and after all that? Growth spiritually should happen, and does, among faithful believers. And we who are among such do not finish growing in this life here. We do not enter heaven having finished with all the growth, it is through Christ that we then lose all corruption and enter without remaining sins or compromises and remain with total faithfulness. This is what we should grow to, and while some grow close to that others leave much unfinished. Do you know of any who come to living just in the perfect will of God for them, not just with what God permitted? There should be growth beyond that.

GenemZ · Sep 14, 2021

FredVB said:
What about what I mention, and after all that? Growth spiritually should happen, and does, among faithful believers. And we who are among such do not finish growing in this life here. We do not enter heaven having finished with all the growth, it is through Christ that we then lose all corruption and enter without remaining sins or compromises and remain with total faithfulness. This is what we should grow to, and while some grow close to that others leave much unfinished. Do you know of any who come to living just in the perfect will of God for them, not just with what God permitted? There should be growth beyond that.

Question....

I gave you Scripture.

Did you give me opinion only?

You can not grow with growing in grace and KNOWLEDGE...

But be continuously growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." 2Pet 3:18

Jesus Christ is the Word of God.... Grow in Him.

All sorts of religions people belong to have their own way to grow and mature into the "system" of their choosing. Unless its sound doctrine of the Word of God? Not just simply quote Scripture, but know know what it is saying? There is no growth in Christ.. though there may be growth in what the system desires of someone to be.

FredVB · Sep 16, 2021

genez said:
Question.... I gave you Scripture. Did you give me opinion only?

You can not grow with growing in grace and KNOWLEDGE...

But be continuously growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." 2Pet 3:18

Jesus Christ is the Word of God.... Grow in Him. All sorts of religions people belong to have their own way to grow and mature into the "system" of their choosing. Unless its sound doctrine of the Word of God? Not just simply quote Scripture, but know know what it is saying? There is no growth in Christ.. though there may be growth in what the system desires of someone to be.

So you gave me that passage. I acknowledge it. What do you think I am supposed to do with it? How have you grown? Do you say you have grown all the way? I see there is more growth, it is in Christ, with knowledge, and more of the fruit of the Spirit will show. Or do you say spiritual growth is something else?

GenemZ · Sep 16, 2021

FredVB said:
So you gave me that passage. I acknowledge it. What do you think I am supposed to do with it? How have you grown? Do you say you have grown all the way? I see there is more growth, it is in Christ, with knowledge, and more of the fruit of the Spirit will show. Or do you say spiritual growth is something else?

You do not know what I am talking about. That is evident.

And, you do not know what the Word of God speaks of...

But be continuously growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." 2 Pet 3:18

You should not be asking me to live your spiritual life for you. You should be praying to the Father in Jesus name, for Him to open your eyes to what 2 Pet 3:18 speaks of. He must show you! I can not do your thinking for you. That is where you need to grow, in order to grow in Christ.

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah;
and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven." Mat 16:14-17

Pray to the Father to show you how to grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ. If you were a baby Christian I would take some more time.

FredVB · Sep 18, 2021

genez said:
You do not know what I am talking about. That is evident.

Maybe I don't. It does not seem like you'd explain yourself well. But I can guess from appearances you mean spiritual growth is only knowledge of the Bible, with reading and studying it. And it appears that you believe that I have never done that. Without basis, assuredly.

And, you do not know what the Word of God speaks of...

But be continuously growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." 2 Pet 3:18

You should not be asking me to live your spiritual life for you. You should be praying to the Father in Jesus name, for Him to open your eyes to what 2 Pet 3:18 speaks of. He must show you! I can not do your thinking for you. That is where you need to grow, in order to grow in Christ.

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah;
and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven." Mat 16:14-17

Pray to the Father to show you how to grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ. If you were a baby Christian I would take some more time.

I do not say anything for you to live your life for me. You make your choices, yourself. I point out that there are things commonly neglected. Godly things. I do what I do, with God's grace, growing spiritually. Others do, too. The Bible, the revelation from God, is certainly important in that. Just because I don't fill posts with Bible quotes and rather say things in my own words does not mean I think it otherwise. And what growth you have is your business. I make points generally, and if it seems to apply, then take what is useful of the general points yourself. If there are any, which is up to you and not up to me.

GFGFGF · Sep 18, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello all,

I have some questions as there seems to be confusion on the purpose of God's grace. Of course God's Grace is a free gift by God to mankind in Christ and his death on the cross for our sins. There is nothing that we can do to earn it as the scriptures teach it is God's gift to mankind because he loves us and sending his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life *John 3:16 and as the scriptures teach we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves and not of works lest any man should boast according to Ephesians 2:8-9.

The Questions I am proposing in this OP is...

Q1. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF GOD'S GRACE OR WHAT IS GOD'S GRACE FOR?
Q2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
Q3. WHERE DOES GOD'S GRACE LEAD US?

(the above questions when linked are answered but what are your thoughts?)

...................

I will start of by providing my view from the scriptures in regards to Q1.

Q1. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF GOD'S GRACE OR WHAT IS GOD'S GRACE FOR?

Grace is linked to mercy and peace from God the father and from JESUS in love and truth for obedience to the faith.

2 JOHN 1:3 [3] GRACE be with you, MERCY, and PEACE, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

ROMANS 1:5 [5], By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

...................

We are to grow in God's GRACE and the KNOWLEDGE of our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

2 PETER 3:18 But GROW IN GRACE, AND IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. *2 PETER 1:2

We do this by seeking JESUS to be our teacher and continuing in God's WORD.

JOHN 14:26 [26], But the Comforter, which is the HOLY GHOST, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME, HE SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, AND BRING ALL THINGS TO YOUR REMEMBRANCE, WHATEVER I HAVE SAID TO YOU.

JOHN 8:31-36
[31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD, THEN ARE YOU MY DISCIPLES INDEED;
[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
[34], JESUS ANSWERED THEM, TRULY, TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, WHOEVER COMMITS SIN IS THE SERVANT OF SIN.
[35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], IF THE SON THEREFORE SHALL MAKE YOU FREE, YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

TITUS 2:11-12 [11], FOR THE GRACE OF GOD HAS APPEARED BRINGING SALVATION TO ALL MEN, [12], TEACHING US, THAT, DENYING UNGODLINESS AND WORLDLY LUSTS, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTOUESLY AND GODLY IN THIS PRESENT WORLD

ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? SHALL WE SIN [break any one of God's 10 commandments], THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND? GOD FORBID. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

ROMANS 6:15-17 What then? SHALL WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID! [16] Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of SIN RESULTING IN DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE resulting in righteousness?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

...................

God's GRACE is given to us because all of us have sinned and are sinners (broken God's 10 Commandments) and the wages of SIN is death *ROMANS 3:23; ROMANS 5:12; ROMANS 6:23.

ROMANS 8:3-4
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

...................

WORD MEANINGS OF GRACE

GRACE GREEK WORD
χάρις; charis khar'-ece From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

GRACE HEBREW WORD
חן; chên khane From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively kindness, favor or objectively (beauty): - favor, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favored.

.....................

CONCLUSION: Grace is unmerited favor leading to a change of behavior. God's GRACE IS FOR OBEDIENCE to the faith (God's Word) in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW it to save us from our sins and the penalty of sin (death) and our sinful nature through our LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Hope this helps.

What is the difference between God's grace and God's mercy?

GenemZ · Sep 18, 2021

FredVB said:
Maybe I don't. It does not seem like you'd explain yourself well. But I can guess from appearances you mean spiritual growth is only knowledge of the Bible, with reading and studying it. And it appears that you believe that I have never done that. Without basis, assuredly.

We can study and read the Bible all we want. I've done that when first starting out. It left me with plenty of questions, and no answers. Questions are good! They make you appreciate finding a good teacher who can teach.

Reading for myself enabled me to comprehend a few things. I was able to get those for myself. But, I later found out I made too many errors out of ignorance and presumption. Unless someone who has the gift to truly study and teach others, to teach you? You will never be able to grow beyond your own natural limitations. For you must grow beyond your own abilities in order to become transformed in your thinking.

Grace makes otherwise stupid people to become wise when they find for themselves a gifted pastor teacher. Many pastors today (not all) are very rudimental and cause no significant growth in their hearers. Over time many churches have become stagnant ... Come back in three years and it will be the same things all over again. But Peter told us to be continuously growing IN GRACE and knowledge. Unless the one teaching you is constantly growing? We will remain spiritually retarded.

You must have your own walk with God to begin with... You must find yourself being led into answers in order to grow. Too many think church is traditional and set in its ways. They never grow up and mature in Christ. Nice people.. but never can grow up in wisdom and knowledge.

Paul wrote the following:

And this is my prayer, that your love may abound more and more in
knowledge and depth of insight." Philpns 1:9

We all will always need more and more knowledge if God is to have us grow to full maturity. Its our spiritual food. You must eat today more food to keep growing and be alive.

Its after we mature that we can begin to learn more on our own with accuracy. But, we will always be dependent upon those whom God raises up to teach us with skill and wisdom.

grace and peace .........

WHAT IS GOD'S GRACE FOR?

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