Hezekiah81

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Some refuse the gift...
My point exactly that's their choice of unbelief, if you didn't have freedom of choice and we were all automated robots programed to believe then all of mankind would be saved but we all know that's not the case. Some people will die in their sins because of unbelief and that's their choice.
 
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Carl Emerson

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My point exactly that's their choice of unbelief, if you didn't have freedom of choice and we were all automated robots programed to believe then all of mankind would be saved but we all know that's not the case. Some people will die in their sins because of unbelief and that's their choice.

Well almost - I conclude that according to scripture the choice is His and He gifts Grace and Faith to some but not all. The outcome then is a family eternally with Him who are eternally grateful for the unmerited salvation they have received as a gift. This leaves no room for pride. Many feel that it is unjust for Him to choose. Yet we are known by Him even before creation happened.

His choosing does not result in the chosen being robots. All mankind lives within predetermined bounds, limited freewill is given to all...
 
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Hezekiah81

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Well almost - I conclude that according to scripture the choice is His and He gifts Grace and Faith to some but not all. The outcome then is a family eternally with Him who are eternally grateful for the unmerited salvation they have received as a gift. This leaves no room for pride. Many feel that it is unjust for Him to choose. Yet we are known by Him even before creation happened.

His choosing does not result in the chosen being robots. All mankind lives within predetermined bounds, limited freewill is given to all...
My reply would be that he foreknew their unbelief, that they would not turn from their wicked ways and yield their heart to him, If God knew I would accept him he must have known the people that would reject him.
 
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Carl Emerson

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My reply would be that he foreknew their unbelief, that they would not turn from their wicked ways and yield their heart to him, If God knew I would accept him he must have known the people that would reject him.

Well - not all are given the Grace to accept...
 
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Hezekiah81

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Weird winter - spring is here - max about 18 currently, showers about.
Texas weather has been a little out of the norm this last winter also, don't usually get snow where I'm at, snow is more common in the far northern panhandle which is the high plains or the mountains of west Texas.
 
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GenemZ

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Wasn't talking about grace, was talking about belief and you do have a choice to accept Christ or reject him, and people before the revelation of Christ had a choice to do what they thought was right or wrong, we're not some automated robots.

I explained what was going on, as to why you could say what you just said. You just were nor aware as to why you could say it!

"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God"
Eph 2:8

Without grace being given from God? You could not have said...

you do have a choice to accept Christ or reject him, and people before the revelation of Christ had a choice to do what they thought was right or wrong, we're not some automated robots.

If God was not giving grace? You could have no free choice.

For it also says...

"The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God." Rom 8:7-8

After only faith pleases God! Heb 11:6!

Therefore.. How can you be saved by "faith?" Unless God's grace was suppressing your flesh, so you could feel free to believe?

You were jut not aware of God's grace working when you felt free to believe! None of us were aware. Only after being saved, and reading God's Word - and understanding it - do we begin to understand the mechanics of salvation.

You still seem to think we were naturally free to believe in Jesus. We were not. God gave us the grace to feel free to believe!

"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God"
Eph 2:8

Without God's grace your will would not have been free to free. For you soul was freed while your flesh was being held down by God when he had the Gospel presented to you! You were also free to reject when grace was present when the Gospel was presented!

What I say is NOT Calvinism. We were not coerced to believe. For your soul was still made free to reject the gospel when grace was given. It was free will made possible by God's grace!

In your soul the sin nature does not reside. The sin nature resides in your flesh which automatically oppresses the soul into sinful attitudes towards God when grace is not there. Grace must be present to make your soul free of the flesh.

Here is why you would not have felt free to believe unless God's grace was suppressing your flesh when offered salvation!


For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have
the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out."
Rom 7:18

Grace was being given by God. It was not of yourself that you felt free to believe! That is why we felt free to believe when offered the Gospel. Grace was given! Other wise?

For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out."

I hope you get it... I pray you will see truth that I was shown and was able to see it.

grace and peace!
 
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GenemZ

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Wasn't talking about grace,

But without understanding grace, you will keep repeating what you say and not understand why it is so. What you say would be correct if you included grace in its function, and understood its function.

But, I see you can not understand what I have been saying.
 
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GenemZ

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people before the revelation of Christ had a choice to do what they thought was right or wrong, we're not some automated robots.

That is true because God was giving them all grace. God prevented them from being automated robots by giving grace. OT believers received grace in salvation when believing in the Lord God.

Why don't you want to include grace into what you believe? No one could have free will without grace. Grace is God's provision to keep us from being robots.

Why can't Satan and his angels believe? God refused to give them any more grace after they kept freely choosing to defy and deny him.

God can overcome our sin nature by means of His grace. But, evil? It can deny and defy truth even when grace is offered with correction. If it can be convinced and corrected while grace is given? Then, that act of becoming convinced is what we call 'repentance.'

After salvation we confess our sins.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and
purify us from all unrighteousness."
1 Jn 1:9

We repent of doing or thinking evil. Not repent of sin.

We can not repent of our sins. For we will remain capable of sinning until our soul leaves the body we now possess. But, we can change our thinking (repentance) after accepting false doctrine (thinking evil) by repenting and replacing evil with the truth.

All to be accomplished by grace from God!
 
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Hezekiah81

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But without understanding grace, you will keep repeating what you say and not understand why it is so. What you say would be correct if you included grace in its function, and understood its function.

But, I see you can not understand what I have been saying.
I understand completely, you are saved by grace which is gifted to us by the mercy of God not because anything you've done and through faith [believing in the word and trusting God] you receive the gift of grace which is the set-apart Spirit.
 
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GenemZ

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I understand completely, you are saved by grace which is gifted to us by the mercy of God not because anything you've done and through faith [believing in the word and trusting God] you receive the gift of grace which is the set-apart Spirit.
You only understand completely "what to say."

I am not sure you understand what it is you are saying.

For example.. Why is grace needed in salvation? What does grace do that allows us to have our will freed to have free will.

Before we were saved we were slaves.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You only understand completely "what to say."

I am not sure you understand what it is you are saying.

For example.. Why is grace needed in salvation? What does grace do that allows us to have our will freed to have free will.

Before we were saved we were slaves.
No one is saved by grace to be disobedient to the faith *Romans 1:5; Titus 2:11-13. If we are living in a life of known unrepentant sin which is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11 and not believing and following Gods' Word *Romans 14:23 we are not saved period but stand before God guilty of sin and in danger of the judgement to come *Hebrews 10:26-27. Gods' grace therefore is not for disobedience to the faith. That view is not biblical or supported by scripture.

Take Care
 
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Hezekiah81

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That is true because God was giving them all grace. God prevented them from being automated robots by giving grace. OT believers received grace in salvation when believing in the Lord God.

Why don't you want to include grace into what you believe? No one could have free will without grace. Grace is God's provision to keep us from being robots.

Why can't Satan and his angels believe? God refused to give them any more grace after they kept freely choosing to defy and deny him.

God can overcome our sin nature by means of His grace. But, evil? It can deny and defy truth even when grace is offered with correction. If it can be convinced and corrected while grace is given? Then, that act of becoming convinced is what we call 'repentance.'

After salvation we confess our sins.
[You got that backwards,] (1 John 3:9) Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (Proverbs 28:13) He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. [ Your man fabricated doctrine cannot stand against the truth of God's word, seek God most high and he will make his word known to you.]
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and
purify us from all unrighteousness."
1 Jn 1:9

We repent of doing or thinking evil. Not repent of sin.

We can not repent of our sins. For we will remain capable of sinning until our soul leaves the body we now possess. But, we can change our thinking (repentance) after accepting false doctrine (thinking evil) by repenting and replacing evil with the truth.

All to be accomplished by grace from God!
 
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Hezekiah81

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You only understand completely "what to say."

I am not sure you understand what it is you are saying.

For example.. Why is grace needed in salvation? What does grace do that allows us to have our will freed to have free will.

Before we were saved we were slaves.
I understand exactly what I'm saying, God's grace is needed to become a servant of righteousness, but you always have a choice what to believe and if you believe in Christ you become a new creation.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I understand exactly what I'm saying, God's grace is needed to become a servant of righteousness, but you always have a choice what to believe and if you believe in Christ you become a new creation.
Exactly!

Titus 2:11-13 [11], For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, [12], Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; [13], Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ

Romans 1:5 [5], By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name

...................

Grace is not a license to continue in known unrepentant sin or to be disobedient to Gods' Word (the faith)

God bless
 
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