WHAT is Daniel's Abomination?

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5thKingdom

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We're in the thread of the OP.
Rules don't say I HAVE to talk to you.


No you do not.
But you must stay within the subject of the OP


You're obnoxious because you think you are always right and won't listen to what anyone else says; even when they point out your error.


No, I know what I know.
It cannot be REFUTED with Scripture because it HARMONIZES with all Scripture.


I listen to what others say and I CORRECT them when they contradict Scripture.
THAT is what the Saints are commanded to do...
Is this "news" to you?


WHEN has anyone "pointed out my error"
You pretend sir.


Listen, I understand how it must "feel" to find someone who understands Biblical mysteries
that were "closed-up" and "sealed" until the Last Saints "shall understand" (and preach) the TRUTH
at the "Time-of-the-End"


It must be very uncomfortable for those who do NOT "understand" the Truth
but that does NOT make me obnoxious... that makes you under my spiritual "dominion"... as the Bible PROMISED.


Dan 7:26
But the judgment [of God] shall sit [shall Rule], and they [the Last Saints] shall take away his dominion,
[the Anti-Christ's and his "tares" authority] to consume and to destroy it [the Fourth Beast] unto the end. [end of time]


Jim
 
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Semper-Fi

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First, why do you not address my comments?
Why did you not address post #110 first ? Good job changing
the subject and you ignored/deflected from that post. Because
You could not refute scriptures given on Gods 1000 year reign.
I listen to what others say and I CORRECT them when they contradict Scripture.
You did not refute anything in post #110 just ignored it so it must be right.
It cannot be REFUTED with Scripture because it HARMONIZES with
all Scripture. Most every major book in the bible touches on it.

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these,
saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Why must you DEFLECT instead of respond?
I asked you this question last friday in Post #54 you ignored, I am re-asking.

"A woman sits upon a scarlet colored beast that kills saints.
Who is this "The woman" who rides this "the beast"?" I asked.

But you dodged/avoided and never answered, like half the questions I ask,
you pick an choice. A woman/church sits or rides seven horns.

These horns come-up out of Daniels 4th beast,
After The the fourth beast had a deadly wound.
After the first 3 horns where plucked-up/pasted.

Who is this "woman" who rides/controls this "beast" ?
How does the beast get a deadly wound ? What caused it,
And what occurred that later this beasts wound was healed?

Secondly, I am perfectly able to explain the Woman.
Why should I?
Please you are the expert on eschatology, tell us first, I asked first.
"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:

Better think again.
Ask whatever questions you want.

I have all the answers because I am one of those who "shall understand".
Besides questions above, how about also in the time of the end
Who is "the king of the south", and "the king of the north" in Daniel 11:40.
 
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Semper-Fi

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The Number of the ‘Beast’ 666 , What is it-Whose Number Is It?

“And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark,
or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

"Here is wisdom"...
 
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5thKingdom

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I did not answer your question
WHY? Because the answer is FAR OVER your head.

Before you ask about the Woman
First you need to understand many other things

Do you understand Daniel's Four Beast represents
the (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom and the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom
and the (3rd) Christian Kingdom and the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom?

If you do not already understand this Truth
you are NOT READY to hear the Truth about the Woman.
They are RELATED

Do you understand
Daniel's Fourth Beast = the Revelation Beast = the Great Triulation = the Rule of the Anti-chist = Satan's "Little Season"?

IF you do not already understand this Truth
you are NOT READY to hear the Truth about the Womam
They are RELATED


/
 
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Timtofly

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It has been about 2500 years from Daniel living in Babylon. The Millennium would be the last 1,000 years until Jesus hands back a perfect creation to God.

Half a time was between Daniel and the Cross. Times will be between the Cross and the Second Coming.

Paul gave three times the redeemed would be gathered in 1 Corinthians 15. The OT at the Cross. The NT at the Second Coming. The Millennium when all of creation is handed to God.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Paul gave three times the redeemed would be gathered in 1 Corinthians 15. The OT at the Cross. The NT at the Second Coming. The Millennium when all of creation is handed to God.
What verses are you referring to in 1 Corinthians 15?
 
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Timtofly

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What verses are you referring to in 1 Corinthians 15?
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits (1); afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (2)

24 Then cometh the end, (3) when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
 
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The Righterzpen

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OK, so is your supposition here that (2.) Christ's coming and (3) the end coming; are separated by 1000 years?

Compare:
1 Thessalonians 4:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Chapter 5:
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

When Christ returns it is "the Day of the Lord", it is the end of time, it is the destruction of this current cosmos and mortality puts on immortality.

The resurrection of the dead is on "the last day".
John 6:39-54

Martha states to Jesus that she knows Lazarus will rise "on the last day".
John 11:24 (Note; Jesus does not correct Martha's eschatology.)

The unregenerate are judged on "the last day"
John 12:47-48

This jives with Matthew 25:31-46
All the dead are raised at the same time; at the time Christ returns.
 
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5thKingdom

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Timtofly said:
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits (1); afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (2)

24 Then cometh the end, (3) when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


OK, so is your supposition here that (2.) Christ's coming and (3) the end coming; are separated by 1000 years?


LOL...
you are pretending that OLD interpretations could possibly be correct
when the Bible PROMISES the TRUTH remained "closed-up" and "sealed"


In other words, you REJECT what the Bible PROMISES...
you think the TRUTH was NOT "closed-up" and "sealed"


As long as you REJECT what the Bible PROMISES about the TRUTH being "sealed"
you will remain in darkness.


Dan 12:8-10
And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said,
Go thy way, Daniel: for THE WORDS ARE CLOSED UP AND SEALED TILL THE TIME-OF-THE-END
MANY [Last Saints] shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly:
and NONE of the wicked shall understand; BUT THE WISE [Last Saints] SHALL UNDERSTAND
[at the “Time-of-the-End”]



Dan 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, SHUT UP THE WORDS, AND SEAL THE BOOK,
EVEN TO THE TIME-OF-THE-END:
MANY [Last Saints] shall run to and fro,
and KNOWLEDGE [of the Truth] SHALL BE INCREASED [to the Last Saints].


/
 
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5thKingdom

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It has been about 2500 years from Daniel living in Babylon. The Millennium would be the last 1,000 years until Jesus hands back a perfect creation to God.


LOL...
you are pretending that OLD interpretations could possibly be correct
when the Bible PROMISES the TRUTH remained "closed-up" and "sealed"


In other words, you REJECT what the Bible PROMISES...
you think the TRUTH was NOT "closed-up" and "sealed"


As long as you REJECT what the Bible PROMISES about the TRUTH being "sealed"
you will remain in darkness.


Dan 12:8-10
And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said,
Go thy way, Daniel: for THE WORDS ARE CLOSED UP AND SEALED TILL THE TIME-OF-THE-END
MANY [Last Saints] shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly:
and NONE of the wicked shall understand; BUT THE WISE [Last Saints] SHALL UNDERSTAND
[at the “Time-of-the-End”]



Dan 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, SHUT UP THE WORDS, AND SEAL THE BOOK,
EVEN TO THE TIME-OF-THE-END
: MANY [Last Saints] shall run to and fro,
and KNOWLEDGE [of the Truth] SHALL BE INCREASED [to the Last Saints].


/
 
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Timtofly

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Peter told us how long a Day of the Lord is. Daniel told us how long a day of the Lord is with a time. But no one would understand until the end of the fulness of the Gentiles.

Don't you presuppose it has been 1993 years since the Cross? Don't you presuppose there was 500 years between Daniel and the Cross? I don't presuppose any of it. I was taught history in school growing up. The only thing I presuppose was to trust what I was taught is correct. Should I question what every one else has been taught? Last I checked the year was 2023. No one is calling that a presupposition. The Cross has been placed between 27 AD and 33 AD, with a margin of error. Should we call that presupposition? One has to get Daniel's time on earth from human date setting of who ruled when.

Why would any one know how to tell prophetic time in the first century or even in 1000AD? No one seemed to take Peter seriously about the length of the Day of the Lord, nor do many here in this forum. So great, no one wants to be dispensational, or on the flip side, make up their own dispensations with their own standards of biblical interpretation.

All of the last day references are an unknown to first century followers of Christ, and Jesus never corrected their presuppositions. Yet you all still have those same uncorrected presuppositions. Lazarus was raised from the dead a few weeks before the Cross. The Cross was the last day resurrection for those in Abraham's bosom. Yet none of the dead in sheol were resurrected.

In fact around 90AD, John says even after the Second Coming those in sheol would not live until the end of the 1,000 years, but many claim that was a theological addition to Scripture even though John forbade it. Well, duh, you all still think there can only be one resurrection for the most part. Paul said the dead rise first, and not even he could prevent that as a living person. So the dead rose first even in the first century, not that Paul said they rise first with the unbelievers at some last hour. Show one verse where Paul said those in sheol are raised at the same time as the Second Coming.

Jesus told us, that the redeemed would not even die, ie taste death. That is what I presuppose to be true. But you all don't even believe Jesus' own words, cause you all are hooked on having to see a physical resurrection, to believe one can even happen. Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:1 says the next physical body was already there in the first century, not waiting for some future Second Coming. Paul pointed out Christ would bring them with Him at the Second Coming. Not gather them from a dead state. Paul accepted they were already physically resurrected first. Your presupposition is to think there is only one general resurrection for all at one time, both those in sheol, and where else are those dead hanging out? Oh, that is right, they already have physical bodies in Paradise, and they meet us in the air. They don't come out of their graves, because only the dead bury the dead, not the living. The living don't bury the living. Why would you bury a living soul? That last buried soul was Lazarus, and he was already raised on the last day, along with all those in Abraham's bosom. Matthew 27:51-53.

You can argue Jesus meant physically dead, not spiritually dead, but all are spiritually dead, until physical death. At least that is what you all teach who claim one has to maintain their salvation and endure until the end. Adam's flesh is as dead as one's spiritual soul. So one is still spiritually dead from the physical aspect of still being in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

If people would just give up the notion of a physical resurrection, they may have a clearer understanding instead of stuck in Daniel's sealed mystery and OT thought processes. We don't go to Abraham's bosom any more, and nothing about the fulness of the Gentiles has to do with a physical body. It is the mind that needs to be changed, not the flesh, which will never be changed. Only the OT were hung up on the physical body, because God had not come down and demonstrated the permanent incorruptible physical body. Jesus told you in the same chapter, He raised the last physical body to physically die into the NT resurrection body, that He was the resurrection and the life. Lazarus was living proof, but all you all seem to do is shake it off, and condemn Lazarus to die the second time. And God seems ok to sit back and let's us enjoy our ignorance. Because this time in Adam's dead flesh is only temporary, and He does not have to force us with eternal blessings while living in this dead flesh, as He already knows the future will out weigh this emptiness that is momentary and fleeting any ways.
 
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Timtofly

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I pretend you think I am pretending.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Peter told us how long a Day of the Lord is.
How long did Peter say the Day of the Lord is?
Daniel told us how long a day of the Lord is with a time. But no one would understand until the end of the fulness of the Gentiles.
This is actually irrelevant to the fact that the dead are raised on "the last day"; (even when one doesn't know when the last day is); it's still the last day. There aren't any days after the last day because if there were; it wouldn't be "the last day". To say there's 1000 years after "the last day" is nonsensical.
First off, I never said "presupposition", I said "supposition". There is a difference. A "presupposition" is something assumed without any knowledge. A "supposition" is an assumption based on what someone has been told / taught.

You seem to have missed the point of the question posed.

No one is questioning that history has passed. Maybe the details of what actually happened in history; but that's another issue. For example; no one denies that WWII happened between 1939 and 1945; but people do debate some of what exactly happened during the war. And debate like this is a normal occurrence because "the winners always write the history books"; but that doesn't mean their account is accurate as to what really happened. History is a sequence of competing narratives; and somewhere between the two sides of the story is usually the truth.

So yeah, there's roughly 500 years between Daniel and the crucifixion (closer to 600 years actually; but the exact date of Daniel's captivity actually isn't relevant to the question at hand). We know this because Galatians 3:17 says there were 430 years between the end of the writing of the OT and the crucifixion.

And yes, some of the information we can verify through secular history. But the Bible isn't actually about the politics of secular history. The main message of Scripture is different than chronicling historical events. Daniel and Scripture in general is actually pretty infamous for saying things like: "In X year of king Y; A happened, Then came a king understanding dark sayings.... " But it doesn't tell you who that king was, or that he came 200 or 300 or 400 years later.

The only time you can assume that is when the Scripture itself tells you to. For example; Nebuchadnezzar's dream. Babylon is the head, the Persian empire is the body, the Greek empire is the legs and the last empire is the feet. Well we know the last empire in that vision is Rome; because that's when Christ came.

That doesn't mean Rome is the 4th beast though. Rome is just one empire in a long line of empires that eventually become part of that "beast system".

No the supposition is that between the time Jesus returns and the end of time comes; the supposition is that there's 1000 years between those two events. I'm pointing out Scripture that negates that supposition.
So are you saying that Peter says "the Day of the Lord" is 1000 years?

Now it is true Revelation says the "millennial reign" is 1000 years. Yet now since we are 2000 years post that; we are still trying to figure out what "1000 years" means. (I would agree with that.) There is a clue in the text though. "1000 years" in the Greek in Revelation, is a duel plural. Does that mean 2000 years? (We'll know the answer to that question by the end of 2033 AD.)
The 1st century followers of Christ wrote the Scripture that says the "last day" is the day of the final resurrection.

Matter of fact Martha knew that before the NT was written; as she's recorded as saying to Jesus that she knows Lazarus will rise "on the last day" (John 11:24) And note Jesus doesn't correct Martha's eschatology.

Note Jesus DOES NOT SAY: Well Martha, actually the rapture is going to happen and then I'm going to reign as a political king from Jerusalem for 1000 years on this corrupted earth; Satan is going to be loosed at the end of my reign and than the end of time will come.

Martha would have been looking at him like... What?

Then you have John 6:39-54. Repeatedly, Jesus says "the last day" in reference to the resurrection.

Then you have this verse: Matthew 27:53

Then you have the end of Matthew 25. That's all talking about the final resurrection. It's very clear in that passage that all of the dead are raised at the same time. There is no secret rapture.
If people would just give up the notion of a physical resurrection, they may have a clearer understanding instead of stuck in Daniel's sealed mystery and OT thought processes.
This one is a doosey!

If you are denying that there is a physical resurrection; the only end of that is destruction!

1 Corinthians 15:
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:


17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
 
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