What is Charismatic Neo-Gnosticism and Why Should it Be Resisted?

[riverpastor]

Well, are you a false teacher or what???

 

[riverpastor]

I was just encouraging you to stay out of the kitchen...

seems it's too hot for you!

 

[JimfromOhio]

LOL... thanks !! Actually I am set free by the Holy Spirit. Just not the same way as I see in this thread. I can see the "Armor of God" is not being practiced here. Let me see.. is your message coming from the evil spirit or Holy Spirit?

Never mind answering my question.... I just need to stop lurking P/C threads....bye !!

 

[riverpastor]

Well, bye...

Don't let the proverbial door hit ya where the good Lord...
oh, nevermind.

 

[riverpastor]

Let me see.. is your message coming from the evil spirit or Holy Spirit?

Which message?

If it's the one about you staying out of the P/C churches, then it was simply coming from me (of which choice you didn't give)...

 

[riverpastor]

JimfomOhio...

you're lurking again...

Anyway, here is an excellent article written by our very own "victoryword" on his website concerning the TRUE roots of EW Kenyon, the "godfather" (as Jim M had once put it) of the WoF Movement...

http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com/kenyondefense.html

 

[riverpastor]

I thought we could use some balance here regarding Kenyon seeing he was targeted in the OP...

 

[JimB]

RP....we just need to distinguish what the differences are I think. Of late, there are posters here - no names - that have state they have received a 'word' - or a 'revelation' - from God and admittedly said their 'word' did not have to conform with Scripture, because God told them. The fact that their 'word' did not agree with Scripture was beside the point to them, and that we - those of us who haven't received this 'word' - had better listen if we wanted to pursue God.

So while there are those of us who do not necessarily encourage or even believe in the revelations of the Holy Spirit for today and rely totally on the written Word, there is also the other extreme that rely solely on 'a word from the Holy Spirit' and not the written Word as confirmation.

Good points, Andry (I hope you were listening, Andrew). This is exactly the problem I am addressing (as I have pointed out several times).

~Jim

 

[JimB]

After watching threads in P/C, I just simply seeing dangers of people are willing to go blindly accepting "revelation knowledge." The issue between the rhema vs. logos doctrines. Logos is said to be the "written Word of God," while rhema is considered the "spoken Word of God." I am seeing experience and person's revelations are increasingly taking precedence over the written Word of God. I am fully aware (not sure if some of you are) that Satan will use any tactics to distract me from God including his giving us revelations. (See Ephesians 6:10-20). My Revelations are important when the Holy Spirit is speaking to me. I am careful not to be gullible, unsuspecting and naive when I receive revelations. When reading the Word of God, the Spirit illuminates our understanding of God's Word so I am transformed by God's principles as He applies them to my life.

When I was looking for a home church, P/C churches were on my list but now, watching these threads, I am just seeing lack of spiritual control and spiritual discernments. Like I said... everyone's testimonies here have been great and I have learned alot. Its a sad and rude awakening.

Excellent, JimO. (I hope you were listening, Andrew).

~Jim

 

[riverpastor]

As per Joe McIntyre, here is an article by EW Kenyon himself concerning how the healing ministry started manifesting in his life:

"I saw the first miracles of healing in my ministry in Springville, New York, where I was pastor.

Before this I had always been suspicious of anyone who claimed their prayers were answered along the line of healing.

I felt we had doctors and surgeons and sanitariums for that purpose. Why did we need anything else? I then firmly believed that God had given us the physicians and other methods of healing.

I knew nothing about the Name of Jesus and that healing was a part of the plan of Redemption, but my heart was very hungry and I was studying the Word diligently.

I had just received the Holy Spirit. The Word had become a living thing. I had awakened faith in many hearts by my new found love for the Word.

One day the clerk of our church came down and asked me if I would pray for his wife. She had been ill for many months.

I will never forget how I shrank from it. I had to go. She lay in bed and I prayed for her the best I knew how. I did not understand about the Name of Jesus, but God in His great grace honored me and she was instantly healed."​

 

[JimB]

JimfomOhio...

you're lurking again...

Anyway, here is an excellent article written by our very own "victoryword" on his website concerning the TRUE roots of EW Kenyon, the "godfather" (as Jim M had once put it) of the WoF Movement...

http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com/kenyondefense.html

You are right, RP. I am no fan (much less blindly devoted disciple) of E.W. Kenyon, victoryword’s whitewash job notwithstanding. We believe, I suppose, what we want to believe.

~Jim

 

[riverpastor]

Do we? And by what do we do this?

Do we make a choice as to what we believe?
Does some of our "belief" come from this revelation that we are discussing.

I was just trying to offer something more objective...

 

[riverpastor]

BTW, do you believe me to be a "blindly devoted follower" of EW Kenyon?

As far as I'm concerned, Kenyon stole most of my teachings!!!

 

[JimfromOhio]

Let me say it this way:

The Holy Spirit is spiritual truth discerned. As with the original topic of this thread, heresy is not so much putting revelations ahead of the Bible. The heretic simply putting revelations ahead of the Bible because someone wants to emphasize "the revelations" more than the Bible.

To me, my revelations are the evaluation of the present situations by looking into the past, peering into the future, or both. It is God who gives me accurate evaluation through the Word of God (Bible). In other words, the word of wisdom is missing. There is the danger of putting out the Spirit's fire and treating valid revelations with contempt. I need to do truth-testing so that I can avoid the evil but hold on to the good.

Is my spiritual eyes fixed on Jesus and the Word of God when I receive revelations? When I see statements in the threads that I don't agree, to me they are either false or just someone don't really know what God wants. From where I am sitting, there is lack of spiritual discernment among us (including me).

When receiving revelations, I strongly encourage all of us to "chew on Scripture", meditate upon it, so that we digest it and assimilate it to our hearts and minds. As Psalm 1:2 says, "Instead you thrill to God's Word, you chew on Scripture day and night." (The Message)

My spiritial freedom is looking back in the Scriptures seeing how much I can learn from those men and women of great faith. From their experiences and examples I can learn much that I can apply them into my own life. I can walk with God in quiet inward liberty if no one else on earth were to go along with me. God has given me the Holy Spirit to be my moral compass and my spiritual power. I am happly submitting to the Spirit's control in my daily life because He enables me to discerns false spirits. Reading the Scriptures gave me peace, gave me joy, gave me understanding of my own life and much more.

Finally, as Christian, I am to show unbelievers my life by not only in word but also in daily living. The questions are, are my revelations contradict my faith in God and His Word? I need to test my revelations so I won't offend God with my actions. In other words, I cannot do the work of the Lord using Satan's tactics. I just have to be careful or we will let Satan deceive us. Simple as that.

Note:
I came back because someone PM me with some questions. I sure hope this will be my post within the P/C threads. Bye Bye

 

[riverpastor]

Thanks for explaining your viewpoint, JimfromOhio.

That was very nice.
I will not PM you again. Unless you need me to.

 

[ChristianMuse]

This is the classical shell game where the difference of definitions destroys the dialogue.
"Revelation Knowledge" as concieved by WoF and many non-WoF P/Cs does not mean "new revelation".
"Revelation Knowledge" simply means to have belief imparted to your heart rather than merely memorized in your head.

Personally, I take revelation knowledge to mean information imparted to me by the Spirit. It can be some fact about scripture or its context. It can be simply the knowledge that God reveals that someone I pass on the street is suicidal.

Ah, now wisdom is what to do about it. This too is revelatory. You can have one without the other. You can have both. Now there is more than one spirit at work in the world. And there is also self.

There is also the affirmation of the Spirit (witness) that what I am reading is true. This isn't knowledge nor wisdom.

My Point?

You are right Dids... It sometimes is a shell game. That is why the definitions need to be agreed upon before true debate can take place. Then again, sadly, even the definitions become a debating point and nothing is ever gained. Only honest people can debate and possibly reach an honest conclusion and/or agreement. Too bad there isn't a spiritual "mood ring" that can show what our spiritual condition is from moment to moment. It would certainly help.

 

[ChristianMuse]

After watching threads in P/C, I just simply seeing dangers of people are willing to go blindly accepting "revelation knowledge." The issue between the rhema vs. logos doctrines. Logos is said to be the "written Word of God," while rhema is considered the "spoken Word of God." I am seeing experience and person's revelations are increasingly taking precedence over the written Word of God. I am fully aware (not sure if some of you are) that Satan will use any tactics to distract me from God including his giving us revelations. (See Ephesians 6:10-20). My Revelations are important when the Holy Spirit is speaking to me. I am careful not to be gullible, unsuspecting and naive when I receive revelations. When reading the Word of God, the Spirit illuminates our understanding of God's Word so I am transformed by God's principles as He applies them to my life.

When I was looking for a home church, P/C churches were on my list but now, watching these threads, I am just seeing lack of spiritual control and spiritual discernments. Like I said... everyone's testimonies here have been great and I have learned alot. Its a sad and rude awakening.

I guess that is how we see scriptures differently. To me the word logos means "word of God" or "Word of God". Rhema means simply Living, having life in itself. I always took it to be truth only when I have received the "rhema logos." It is the rhema logos that imparts life. The rest is either wanderings or religion.

 

[Simon_Templar]

In growing up in the charismatic church I had used the term "a Rhema word" used numerous times but didn't really know where it came from.. so a few months back I heard it again and decided to find out what the words involved actually mean.

In greek the word Logos, has an astounding number of possible meanings. It can mean anything from "word" to "reasoning", "instruction", "argument" etc etc the entry for possible definitions of Logos is around a quarter of a page long. So Logos is a fairly imprecise word in that it can have a couple dozen different meanings which must be determined by the context. The most popular definition of course is simply "word" but there is nothing in the definitions which conotates "written word" infact it can mean written, or spoken just as easily. (it is on a side note also the root of "logic")

Rhema on the other hand is much more precise in the sense that it only really has a couple of possible meanings.
Basicly the meanings of rhema come down to "word" "a phrase", or "a saying" again there is nothing that conotates whether it means written or spoken.. the only real difference between Logos and Rhema is that Rhema tends to specificly refer to an entire statement, rather than to a single word.

I believe in revelation from the Holy Spirit.. and honestly, I experience it more than I, myself would expect especially when studying scripture. If I am wrestling with something I don't understand, I pray and ask for wisdom and understanding and truth and God answers by giving me understanding.. that is what I know as revelation. When I get some understanding that way I always check it against the rest of scripture, and consider it in the light of how it fits with other truths that are established.

 

[Leimeng]

~ Let us first ask if you have some working definitions of gnosticism. (There are several actually.)
~ Do you have a gnostic definition of God?
~ Do you have a gnostic definition of man?
~ Do you have a gnostic definition of sin?
~ I bet one would be surprised at what gnosticism is and what it teaches.
~ I further think that if one actually knew what gnosticism was and what it teachers, one would not be so willing to parrot false accusations from false teachers about Kenyon et. al.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

 

[Andrew]

Excellent, JimO. (I hope you were listening, Andrew).

nah.