What is Charismatic Neo-Gnosticism and Why Should it Be Resisted?

[probinson]

Dude, I've been responding to your posts and your line of thought.

You have revelation from God....about your life. Great. Me too. Agreed?

It has to fall in line with Scripture. They do? Great. Me too. Agreed?

Now do you have any 'special' revelations about the church and God's Kingdom that no other believer has because God's only revealed it to you and no one else, and therefore you are the voice of God in this revelation? No? Me too. Agreed?

Has your pastor ever proclaimed, because you believed he was being led by the Holy Spirit, a specific word - a revelation - from God about a member of the congregation? Yes? Mine too. Agreed?

Orthodoxy provides good guidleines and boundaries for the church. It doesn't mean they're infallible. But they do give us a strong basis to fall back onto. Like the Nicene Creed, the Apostles Creed, and even the Old Roman Creed.

Well then, what are we arguing about?

I agree orthodoxy is important, but where some would say that orthdoxy is the final test if something is from God or not, I am not convinced this is always the case. As you said, orthodoxy is not infallible. Our understanding is not infallible. Our knowledge is limited. The only way to "understand" truth is by revelation from God. That's all I'm saying.

I think we're saying the same thing, but differently.

 

[Johnny Be Good]

Out to slam those who practice fighting the good fight of "Faith" because he refuses to accept God's definition of it in scripture.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Receiving revelations are wonderful and they are important tools from the Holy Spirit. I always use any revelations that I received from the Holy Spirit as long as I know each of the revelations are truly from the Holy Spirit. God have said in the Bible.... "TEST the spirits". With that command, I am careful not to be gullible, unsuspecting and naive when I receive revelations.

James 2:16..." Don't be deceived"

1 Peter 4:7....."Be clear minded and self-controlled"

Every Christians are reminded by the BIBLE that the scriptures contains EVERYTHING we need to know BEFORE accepting any kind of revelations. The Scripture is the storehouse of DIVINE revelation which is much more powerful than MY OWN revelation. I am reminded reading 2 Timothy 3:16 that Scriptures are to be used for:
1. Teaching

2. Reproof

3. Correction

4. Training

Most of the time, I do KNOW which revelations are true and which are false. I was able to discern both and it is amazing that what God said is true. Satan will use any tactics to distract us from God including his giving us revelations. When I am not sure, I use my bible and consult my mentor or a fellow strong believer to guide me my decisions. It is clear that by looking at all four (4) words (of 2 Tim. 3:16) tells me that I have a divine manual which is the Bible that I ought to verify before taking any hasty actions.

Not checking will lead me to a spiritual CRASH !!

 

[Johnny Be Good]

To answer a previous post, Yes, I have taught in a bible college. I taught homiletics and church history at Southern Bible College, Houston, (affiliated with the Pentecostal Church of God) in the mid-80s before the college merged with Messenger College in Joplin MO. Bert Waggoner, currently national director of the Association of Vineyard Churches, also taught there at that time.

~Jim

I'm very impressed, Jim.

I'm wondering, would you provide us with scripture's definition of "Faith"?

...in your own words.

We would be honored with your reply.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Since this was ignored by all.. let me repeat.
"Revelation Knowledge" as taught by the vast majority of those who use the term
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "NEW", or SECRET INFORMATION.
It only means the information is engrafted into the heart and becomes the stuff of faith.
You received "revelation knowledge" when God gave you faith to be saved. He revealed into your heart the fact the Jesus was Lord and Christ. There is nothing "new" or "secret" about that information.

 

[JimB]

Trying to suck me into another opportunity to broadside me with insults, Johnny? No thanks. I’m not biting.

~Jim

 

[Johnny Be Good]

Since this was ignored by all.. let me repeat.
"Revelation Knowledge" as taught by the vast majority of those who use the term
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "NEW", or SECRET INFORMATION.
It only means the information is engrafted into the heart and becomes the stuff of faith.
You received "revelation knowledge" when God gave you faith to be saved. He revealed into your heart the fact the Jesus was Lord and Christ. There is nothing "new" or "secret" about that information.

Agreed

 

[JimB]

Since this was ignored by all.. let me repeat.
"Revelation Knowledge" as taught by the vast majority of those who use the term
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "NEW", or SECRET INFORMATION.
It only means the information is engrafted into the heart and becomes the stuff of faith.
You received "revelation knowledge" when God gave you faith to be saved. He revealed into your heart the fact the Jesus was Lord and Christ. There is nothing "new" or "secret" about that information.

As is often the case, Dids, we may be saying the same thing only using different jargon. Then, maybe not. Anyhow, would you explain this in a little more detail (but briefly ) and maybe not use technical words. I am, after all, from the pineywoods of East Texas.

I think my concern is with doctrinal, creedal truth, dogma, rather than individual guidance. The former is objective, the latter subjective. Even individual guidance must be weighed against objective truth. Do you agree?

~Jim

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Trying to suck me into another opportunity to broadside me with insults, Johnny? No thanks. I’m not biting.

~Jim

Sorry bro...
seems to me it is your name in the OP... :o

 

[Andry]

Thank you, yet again, for coming up with pond scum.

You NEVER reply to stuff you KNOW you are in error on.

NEVER. You just leave all of the scum you've dredged up all over the place for folks to get stuck in. WOW.

WOW!​

Dude, you crossed the line again.

 

[JimB]

Sorry bro...
seems to me it is your name in the OP... :o

It’s the only name I got, Dids?

~Jim

 

[9-iron]

Let me try and provide an example to Jim's topic. Let's say we have a small church in the middle of nowhere. The pastor doesn't have a lot of oversight because the covering of the church communicates with pretty much only the pastor. Or in some situations those who the pastor 'feels safe' to communicate.

The pastor comes to the congregation with what he call 'revelations' as to what God is wanting for the church. Not only that, but this 'revelations' are often directed at actions or other things the pastor percieves as problems that might question his authority.

Basically after a few years he has weeded out those that can think and discern for themselves. Now the church is mainly led by his 'revelations' and not sound doctrine. The theme is everyone can hear from God, but as pastor the Lord gives him the 'revelations' for the body. After time, the church is following this pastors 'revelations' instead of God or the Word. Face it, slick tongued pastors can manipulate the Word to legitimize their 'revelations'.

Then you have a church operating on 'cultic', 'authoritarian' principles.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

As is often the case, Dids, we may be saying the same thing only using different jargon. Then, maybe not. Anyhow, would you explain this in a little more detail (but briefly ) and maybe not use technical words. I am, after all, from the pineywoods of East Texas.

I think my concern is with doctrinal, creedal truth, dogma, rather than individual guidance. The former is objective, the latter subjective. Even individual guidance must be weighed against objective truth. Do you agree?

~Jim

Simple as I can put it.
If a spirit came to me and told me to worship a cow... I would chop up the cow and invite everyone here to a BBQ.

But let me show you my textbook definition of revelation knowledge directly from scripture.

Mat 16:15-17 KJV
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.​

I do not know how many times Jesus would have previously told them who He was. I am sure it was many many times. The information was not secret or hidden. From John the baptist on it was openly declared that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God.
But here we Jesus telling them that he had not received this information by flesh and blood.... rather it was revealed to him by God. This is "revelation knowledge".

There is more from Ephesians 1... which I suspect you know about.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Simple as I can put it.
If a spirit came to me and told me to worship a cow... I would chop up the cow and invite everyone here to a BBQ.

But let me show you my textbook definition of revelation knowledge directly from scripture.

Mat 16:15-17 KJV
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.​

I do not know how many times Jesus would have previously told them who He was. I am sure it was many many times. The information was not secret or hidden. From John the baptist on it was openly declared that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God.
But here we Jesus telling them that he had not received this information by flesh and blood.... rather it was revealed to him by God. This is "revelation knowledge".

There is more from Ephesians 1... which I suspect you know about.

I don't seem to have a problem with this... however... the Bible does talk about BOTH sides of spiritual revelations

Ephesians 6:10-20 ... The Armor of God... to watch for the Devil's schemes

 

[JimB]

Simple as I can put it.
If a spirit came to me and told me to worship a cow... I would chop up the cow and invite everyone here to a BBQ.

But let me show you my textbook definition of revelation knowledge directly from scripture.

Mat 16:15-17 KJV

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
​

I do not know how many times Jesus would have previously told them who He was. I am sure it was many many times. The information was not secret or hidden. From John the baptist on it was openly declared that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God.
But here we Jesus telling them that he had not received this information by flesh and blood.... rather it was revealed to him by God. This is "revelation knowledge".

There is more from Ephesians 1... which I suspect you know about.

Ah-ha! This I agree with. However, what I am dealing with is those who have said that when they need an interpretation of scripture they rely strictly on what the Spirit “reveals” to them. I contend that we must compare spiritual things with spiritual things, test the spirits to see if they are of God or not, and prove all things to hold fast to that which is true. Individual revelation may be for guidance, but even then it has to be weighed against Truth. Jesus said, “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth” (John 17.17). Not, what I sense is truth or what I feel is truth, Your word is truth. There is a big difference in personal guidance and creedal truth.

~Jim

 

[JimB]

I will have to leave this for you guys to hash out. I have some honey-do’s to take care of.

~Jim

 

[Johnny Be Good]

Ah-ha! This I agree with. However, what I am dealing with is those who have said that when they need an interpretation of scripture they rely strictly on what the Spirit “reveals” to them. I contend that we must compare spiritual things with spiritual things, test the spirits to see if they are of God or not, and prove all things to hold fast to that which is true. Individual revelation may be for guidance, but even then it has to be weighed against Truth. Jesus said, “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth” (John 17.17). Not, what I sense is truth or what I feel is truth, Your word is truth. There is a big difference in personal guidance and creedal truth.

~Jim

Oh, brother.

 

[Johnny Be Good]

I will have to leave this for you guys to hash out. I have some honey-do’s to take care of.

~Jim

Oh, brother!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I will have to leave this for you guys to hash out. I have some honey-do’s to take care of.

~Jim

I thought I heard the sound of whip off in the distance....

 

[BarbB]

This thread is hurting my heart.