What is "Bapticostal?

[Dave-W]

There are unfortunately some "Baptists" who adhere to the Pentecostal belief that unless you speak in tongues upon baptism, you have not been filled with the Holy Spirit.

Indeed. A bit of bad theology on the part of classic pentecostals that did not apprehend the difference between "Spirit Upon" and "Spirit Within."

 

[OzSpen]

True trinitarians reject the idea of "three separate beings." That is known as tritheism and is a heresy.

There are three separate, co-equal persons in the Trinity. It has been diagrammed this way:

 

[Dave-W]

There are three separate, co-equal persons in the Trinity. It has been diagrammed this way:

That is one of many diagrams. I do not think it properly explains it.

None of them do; as the concept of "three in one" is beyond human understanding. And that is OK. We do not need to understand it.

Beyond that, by using the word "separate," you enter the realm of tri-theism, meaning 3 gods; and THAT is heresy as there is only ONE GOD.

 

[now faith]

We could only have Emanuel ( God with us)) by immaculate Conception ,due to our knowlage we have today by knowing a child recieves his father's blood.
Adam is a case in point,God created him a living soul without a mother.

The Birth of Christ is a perfect example of God being three yet one.

Conceived by the Holy Spirit,becoming the only begotten Son :

verb (used with object), begot or (Archaic) begat;begotten or begot; begetting.
1.
(especially of a male parent) to procreate or generate(offspring).

Dictionary. Com

So we have The Father by way of Spirit not himself conceiving Christ Jesus who is God with us made flesh.
Within this paradigm, it is impossible for 3 separate beings what we see is one being with 3 elements of being.

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

There are three separate, co-equal persons in the Trinity. It has been diagrammed this way:

According to the Apostolic Ministries of America (I do attend a Oneness church), in the "Holy Scriptures, God, Jehovah, Lord, Father, Word, and Holy Spirit denotes one and the same being, and are all names and titles of the Deity." (retrieved from their website)

This is exactly as I see it. In the beginning, there was God, and God came to Earth manifested in human flesh, called himself Jesus Christ, God's son. Jesus was crucified, buried, and the resurrected on the third day. Christ ascended back into Heaven and left his comforter (the Holy Ghost/Spirit) behind on Earth to be with his followers. Exodus 33:20 says "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." The only way we can see God is by seeing Jesus, who is God manifested in human flesh. The Holy Spirit is exactly what it is... Jesus' spirit he sent to Earth as a comforter.

Acts 4:12 (KJV) states "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Likewise, Acts 2:38 says "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Yes, Matthew 28:19 says "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." But these are just titles, not The Name which IS Jesus Christ just as Peter commanded in Acts 2:38.

 

[OzSpen]

According to the Apostolic Ministries of America (I do attend a Oneness church), in the "Holy Scriptures, God, Jehovah, Lord, Father, Word, and Holy Spirit denotes one and the same being, and are all names and titles of the Deity." (retrieved from their website)

This is exactly as I see it. In the beginning, there was God, and God came to Earth manifested in human flesh, called himself Jesus Christ, God's son. Jesus was crucified, buried, and the resurrected on the third day. Christ ascended back into Heaven and left his comforter (the Holy Ghost/Spirit) behind on Earth to be with his followers. Exodus 33:20 says "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." The only way we can see God is by seeing Jesus, who is God manifested in human flesh. The Holy Spirit is exactly what it is... Jesus' spirit he sent to Earth as a comforter.

Acts 4:12 (KJV) states "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Likewise, Acts 2:38 says "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Yes, Matthew 28:19 says "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." But these are just titles, not The Name which IS Jesus Christ just as Peter commanded in Acts 2:38.

That is not what I find in Scripture:

The persons and deity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
The more complete revelation is in the New Testament (over the OT) where we find that

• God, the Father, is regarded as God. ‘For on him God the Father has set his seal’ (Jn 6:27 ESV); ‘God our Father’ (Rm 1:7 ESV); ‘God the Father’ and ‘God the Father’ (Gal 1:1, 3). Isn’t that clear enough? The Father is God.

• God, the Son, is regarded as God. He has the attributes of deity: (1) Eternity (Jn 1:15; 8:58; 17:5, 24); (2) Omniscience (Jn 2:24-25; 16:30; 21:17); (3) Omnipresence (Mt 18:20; 28:20; Jn 3:13); (4) Omnipotence. ‘I am the Almighty’ (Rev 1:8; Heb 1:3; Mt 28:18); (5) Immutable (Heb 1:12; 13:8); (6) He does the actions of deity: creator (Jn 1:3; Heb 1:10; Col 1:16); holds things together (Col 1:17; Heb 1:3); forgives sin (Mt 9:2, 6); raises the dead (Jn 6:39-40, 54; 11:25; 20:25, 28); he will be the Judge (Jn 5:22) of believers (2 Cor 5:10), of Antichrist and his followers (Rev 19:15), the nations (Ac 17:31), Satan (Gen 3:15) and the living and the dead (Ac 10:42).

• God, the Holy Spirit, is regarded as God. The Holy Spirit is a person. Take John 16:13 as an example. the neuter substantive pneuma [Spirit] is referred to by the masculine pronoun ekeinos [he], thus recognising the Holy Spirit not as a neuter ‘it’ but as a person, ‘he’. He is the Comforter/Helper (Jn 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7). No ‘it’ can do this. The Holy Spirit has the attributes of Deity. He is eternal (Heb 9:14), omniscient (1 Cor 2:10-11; Jn 14:26; 16:12-13), omnipotent (Lk 1:35), omnipresent (Ps 139:7-10). And have a guess what? He does the works of deity in creation (Ps 104:30), regeneration (Jn 3:5), giving us Scripture (2 Pt 1:21; and raising the dead (Rm 8:11).

The “Shield of the Trinity” or Scutum Fidei diagram of traditional Western Christian symbolism (courtesy Wikipedia)​

Details copied from my article, Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?

Oz

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I am curious to know what a "Bapticostal is, and are there any on the Baptist forums here.

I recall attending a Baptist church and a Pentecostal Style church at the same time once, finding that balance between being expressive and being analytical in my expression of faith was a big thing back then.

 

[Goodbook]

Ive never really heard anyone describe themselves as bapticostal but from the word obviously it might refer to someone who is familiar with both baptist and pentecostal teachings and blends them both together?

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

Ive never really heard anyone describe themselves as bapticostal but from the word obviously it might refer to someone who is familiar with both baptist and pentecostal teachings and blends them both together?

From what I gather, some people that call themselves Bapticostal are really Baptists that accept the charismatic gifts of the Spirit. They could be Full Gospel Baptists, or just a regular ole Baptist church that accepts the charismatic gifts of the Spirit. However, some of them may fall somewhere between the Baptist and Pentecostal teachings. Perhaps some call themselves "Bapticostal" because they believe the believer's baptism (a root of the Baptist faith) and in the charismatic gifts of the Spirit (which was revived with Pentecostalism).

 

[JM]

A Bapticostal is really just a Pentecostal. A key belief for Baptists is denied by Pentecostals because they believe in continued revelation whereas the Baptist views the Bible as the final revelation of God to man with revelation being ceased.

 

[Goodbook]

Is that the same as four square gospel churches?


I have heard of them in the US but as four square is the name of a grocery store here in NZ it could be confusing.

 

[Dave-W]

Is that the same as four square gospel churches?

Four Square Gospel is a classical pentecostal denomination. As such their theology is more in line with Wesleyan Holiness (old line methodists) than Baptists.

They are also the parent church that gave rise to both Calvary Chapel and Vineyard denominations.

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

Four Square Gospel is a classical pentecostal denomination. As such their theology is more in line with Wesleyan Holiness (old line methodists) than Baptists.

They are also the parent church that gave rise to both Calvary Chapel and Vineyard denominations.

I thought the Foursquare Gospel movement, started by evangelist Aimee Semple McPherson, had something of an Assemblies of God background, which itself has "Baptistic" roots. I could be wrong here, but I've read a lot about Sister Aimee and Pentecostalism in general, and I'm pretty sure I recollect the Foursquare Church being referred to as "Baptistic" or "Reformed" in doctrine and/or theology on more than one occasion.

 

[actionsub]

I thought the Foursquare Gospel movement, started by evangelist Aimee Semple McPherson, had something of an Assemblies of God background, which itself has "Baptistic" roots. I could be wrong here, but I've read a lot about Sister Aimee and Pentecostalism in general, and I'm pretty sure I recollect the Foursquare Church being referred to as "Baptistic" or "Reformed" in doctrine and/or theology on more than one occasion.

You would be correct in saying that Foursquare was doctrinally closer to the A/G's than the Church of God or the Pentecostal Holiness groups, in that they teach sanctification as a continual process instead of a point-in-time experience such as the Wesleyans taught (they are moving toward more of an idea of sanctification being a process in recent years).

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I am curious to know what a "Bapticostal is, and are there any on the Baptist forums here.

This is a word some use to describe confused persons who see believers baptism in scripture,but then are hoodwinked into thinking that if they make some childish rhyming noises it is a secret code to fight against Satan.
It is living in the land of make believe.

 

[Dave-W]

I thought the Foursquare Gospel movement, started by evangelist Aimee Semple McPherson, had something of an Assemblies of God background, which itself has "Baptistic" roots. I could be wrong here, but I've read a lot about Sister Aimee and Pentecostalism in general, and I'm pretty sure I recollect the Foursquare Church being referred to as "Baptistic" or "Reformed" in doctrine and/or theology on more than one occasion.

Both Assy of God and Four Square are Methodist in their roots and doctrines.

My wife grew up in the A/G (and I attended for a while) and she knew of preachers that were kicked out of their pastorates for teaching the Reformed/Baptist doctrine of OSAS.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

I consider myself to be a Bapticostal, and have been going to a "Bapticostal" church now for about 5 years. Part of what drove me out of the SBC based church was having my Pastor run out for believing in gifts of the Holy Spirit. The "Perfect" in my opinion can only mean the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I have yet to hear anyone speak in tongues but my best friend who is a Baptist deacon in South Carolina did that ONCE and he is the kind of friend that I believe 100%. A lot of the Baptist churches in my neck of the woods are full cessionists and after having an experience in church once, I can no longer subscribe to that doctrine. The local Baptist churches near me believe that the "Perfect" that Paul mentions is in reference to the completion of Scripture and as such there can't be any gifts of the Spirit other than love as Paul mentions.

I have been to a church that did involve speaking in tongues as part of its worship service, and that was a charismatic church, also in South Carolina. I have read that some churches believe it is necessary to consider you saved, but I have never been to such a church myself, nor would I attend if I knew of that doctrine, because I see no biblical basis for that belief whatsoever.

I believe in OSAS and consider myself more calvinist that arminian.

 

[Gojira323]

Baptist beliefs. Pentecostal style worship such as speaking in tongues and prophecy.

Exactly! My church preaches Baptist beliefs but they also believe the gifts never ceased and are here today. A lot of emphasis though is put on proper interpretation of tongues if some speak that way. The pastor doesnt allow a side show circus atmosphere with people wailing and screeching

 

[Gojira323]

You hit the nail on the head.

There are unfortunately some "Baptists" who adhere to the Pentecostal belief that unless you speak in tongues upon baptism, you have not been filled with the Holy Spirit.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I strongly disagree with that to my friend

 

[DeaconDean]

I strongly disagree with that to my friend

You may, but I can take you to some churches in my area that claim to be "bapticostal" and adhere to what I said.

God Bless

Till all are one.