What is a pro-choice Christian?

[MoonlessNight]

A lot of pro-choice people in this thread seem to be awfully concerned with convincing people that keeping babies around is a huge inconvenience.

Pretty macabre thing to do, considering that these same people have no problem with killing off the inconvenient (at least, if they haven't reached an arbitrary age threshold).

 

[RaymondG]

I for one do not respect anybody, or their beliefs, who believes that they have the right to take the life of another in order to further their own interests.
What I have a respect for is the one who Loves and lays down His life for all irrespective of what they believe, not out of respect for rights but because of His Own Great Love.

Yet what you do to the least, you do to him. If you don't respect your brother you can't say you respect Jesus. Only God knows the heart, so you can never say the reason why someone believes anything. Respecting someone's right to believe, didn't mean that you agree with what they believe.

 

[Anguspure]

Yet what you do to the least, you do to him. If you don't respect your brother you can't say you respect Jesus. Only God knows the heart, so you can never say the reason why someone believes anything. Respecting someone's right to believe, didn't mean that you agree with what they believe.

I would encourage you to follow your own teaching, maintaining respect for a person, when that person believes that the only way to their own happiness is to beat your daughter to a pulp, who then acts on that belief.
Clearly in the real world you would not be quite so respectful, or perhaps you think that the need for respect trumps your love for your child.

 

[RaymondG]

I would encourage you to follow your own teaching, maintaining respect for a person, when that person believes that the only way to their own happiness is to beat your daughter to a pulp, who then acts on that belief.
Clearly in the real world you would not be quite so respectful, or perhaps you think that the need for respect trumps your love for your child.

And I encourage you to expect and except being disrespected because of the clothes you wear or the money in your bank account, or your nationality or religious denomination simply because the one giving the disrespect, believes it to be wrong or against their personal beliefs....And, according to you, differences in opionions, choices or beliefs are just causes for disrespect.

This is not about murder or beating children. It is about your desire to take away the choices of another and leaving only your choice as an option. About calling your choice right, and everyone else's wrong.

 

[MoonlessNight]

This is not about murder or beating children. It is about your desire to take away the choices of another and leaving only your choice as an option. About calling your choice right, and everyone else's wrong.

Choosing to turn away from sin is right, and choosing to sin is wrong.

This is like day 1 of Christianity 101 stuff here. I don't know why this should even be controversial.

 

[thecolorsblend]

And I encourage you to expect and except being disrespected because of the clothes you wear or the money in your bank account, or your nationality or religious denomination simply because the one giving the disrespect, believes it to be wrong or against their personal beliefs....And, according to you, differences in opionions, choices or beliefs are just causes for disrespect.

This is not about murder or beating children. It is about your desire to take away the choices of another and leaving only your choice as an option. About calling your choice right, and everyone else's wrong.

To be fair to @Anguspure, most people believe it's perfectly reasonable to outlaw murder.

The amount of moral equivocation going on here about whether or not a mother has some perceived right to allow her baby to be torn into pieces is really disheartening. And disgusting.

 

[Fantine]

Fir a long

 

[Vicomte13]

To be fair to @Anguspure, most people believe it's perfectly reasonable to outlaw murder.

The amount of moral equivocation going on here about whether or not a mother has some perceived right to allow her baby to be torn into pieces is really disheartening. And disgusting.

I agree it is disgusting. Unfortunately, the discussion does not stop there. For we must also consider Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Dresden and the current state of perpetual warfare without even a plan for its ending, and place it all in the bucket: destroying life for expediency's sake.

 

[thecolorsblend]

SPF, pro-lifers call everything "convenience" except bleeding out on the carpet minutes from death...

If you---or any other pro-lifer---were faced in real life with some of the situations you so cavalierly call "convenience," you would be lying in your bed in a puddle of tears in severe clinical depression.

Let's say, "lost home in Houston flood..." You say "convenience!" But how would YOU cope carrying a baby to term if you'd lost your home in the Houston flood?? Telling them, "oh that's just an "inconvenience" is so offensive it makes me want to spit nails.

Of course...

 

[thecolorsblend]

I agree it is disgusting. Unfortunately, the discussion does not stop there. For we must also consider Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Dresden and the current state of perpetual warfare without even a plan for its ending, and place it all in the bucket: destroying life for expediency's sake.

Don't forget Hamburg! War crimes, all of them.

You're right... but since this discussion is about abortion, let's try sticking with that.

 

[Fantine]

For a long time I have felt like we, the living, are hostages. Our dreams of a better world of peace and justice and equality are held hostage by those who would forego world peace, clean water and air, the hungry, the homeless, the sick---for one issue.

I see a morality based on people wanting to run other people's lives--while of course they are not tempted by those vices.

And I truly believe that if we ficus on creating a better world, lots of problems will solve themselves.

I don't want to see women having abortions, but I don't want to see decades of progress held hostage by those who "don't play well with others."

I am supportive, helpful, and non-judgmental to single moms. I contribute to pregnancy help centers.

But I am not a hostage taker.

 

[Vicomte13]

And we must consider the expediency behind the decision to allow the authorities to take lives for resisting arrest for crimes that do not themselves carry the death penalty, such as resisting arrest or fleeing drug felons.

And also the expediency of a death penalty assessed for crimes that God did not proscribe under the death penalty (espionage, for example), and the application of the death penalty at all, given our woefully untrustworthy justice system.

We take all of these lives, from babies through adults, for politically expedient reasons. All of them are on the table for examination.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Lots of vague arguments about pro-life people being uncaring and unhelpful towards society.

Not much in the way of showing why abortion is acceptable.

Is there even one pro-choice person who has a consistent argument for his position, based in the Christian worldview?

 

[thecolorsblend]

And we must consider the expediency behind the decision to allow the authorities to take lives for resisting arrest for crimes that do not themselves carry the death penalty, such as resisting arrest or fleeing drug felons.

And also the expediency of a death penalty assessed for crimes that God did not proscribe under the death penalty (espionage, for example), and the application of the death penalty at all, given our woefully untrustworthy justice system.

We take all of these lives, from babies through adults, for politically expedient reasons. All of them are on the table for examination.

Are you trying to drag this thread off topic? Or is that an unintentional byproduct of your non-sequitur posts?

 

[Vicomte13]

Don't forget Hamburg! War crimes, all of them.

You're right... but since this discussion is about abortion, let's try sticking with that.

No, this discussion is not about abortion. It is about the sanctity of life. People might want to segregate out abortion, that particular taking of life, to treat it as separate, but it is not separate. The real unifying question is this: to what extent can men rightly take the lives of other men, and why. In the case of war, the police and abortion - all three - the state - the democratically elected state - is the vehicle by which these things are done.

Life runs up against the expediency of governance, internally and externally, and the desire to enforce law.

For let's be clear, if legally the killing of a baby in the womb is the intentional slaying of a human being, then therefore the mother, the doctor and the attending nurses are all first degree murderers who, in the states who have those laws, should all be put to death, and everybody who works in the office, or finances the abortion, is likewise an accessory to first degree murder - and guilty of felony murder, just like the getaway driver from a robbery gone bad is charged with felony murder even if he sat in the car and waited and never drew a gun.

Shall we, then, apply our law of murder to abortion, given that it is murder, and execute everybody affiliated with the abortion clinics, and all mothers who procure one, and all boyfriends who pay for it?

Logically, we must.

Which is why, when we come to matters of life, there are no lines - well, this is abortion, so that's different.

If it's different, then we must acknowledge it.
But if it's not, then that means many other things also.

It's easy to condemn people morally for the crime of abortion. Are we willing to execute everybody involved in the process, including the mother, all of the doctors, nurses, payors and secretarial staff? We executed prison guards at Auschwitz. The secretary sitting out front taking calls is as worthy as a noose as a train guard at a death camp. No difference.

Right?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Right?

No, it's about abortion. Thanks though.

 

[Vicomte13]

Are you trying to drag this thread off topic? Or is that an unintentional byproduct of your non-sequitur posts?

There is nothing non-sequitur about my questions. They are directly on the point that matters.

 

[Winken]

So a Christian can support Planned Parenthood since they do other stuff besides Abortions.

Gotcha.

Your posts are simply pathetic.

 

[Winken]

How Far can Christian Blind support for Christ Rejecting Israel be stretched?
I have yet to see the limits.

I don't find that anywhere in the Bible. What magician are you listening to?

 

[Winken]

How about Miscarriage?
Punishable offense?

Should it be illegal for Pregnant women to go outside if its snowing or Icy, since that would irresponsibly put the baby at risk of death if she slipped and fell?

Should probably make it illegal for her to ride in or drive a car too, since the preborn baby can not be sufficiently restrained to prevent injury/death in case of an automobile accident?

Nanny state lovers Unite!

Utter nonsense.