What is a free mason?? /need advice?

[Plan 9]

I have a question for Bill and Wayne, though.
How many Masons do you estimate worldwide are Royal Arch?

 

[billmcelligott]

6,000,000 Masons worldwide I would guess about 30% are Royal Arch.

 

[Plan 9]

6,000,000 Masons worldwide I would guess about 30% are Royal Arch.

Do these 30% dictate what the other 70% think or do?

 

[Thaddeus]

I have a question about Shriners, maybe you too can shed some light Plan 9.

What are the requisites for becoming a Shriner? are the requesites?

 

[Thaddeus]

Rev Wayne what do you say "On" from Jahbulon means?

 

[KennySe]

Thad reference material: NoN masonic

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2938/mythobaal.htm


The Myth of Baal



http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02175a.htm



Baal as defined by the catholic dictionary



http://www.studylight.org/dic/ebd/view.cgi?number=T660



Month of the year

Thank you for the links, Bill.

 

[KennySe]

You're absolutely right, except that you quibble a bit. Actually, they are not the same word at all. But there is a general understanding among Masonic authorities and anti-masonic critics alike, that whether it is bel, bal, bul, or bol, makes not one iota of difference. The fact is, the word took on various forms, was present in all the Mesopotamian languages, and was basically a generic word meaning "lord" which was used in reference to a variety of gods. And there is a simple reason for that:

Since the ritual mentions the Assyrian, it would be well to take a look at that one in particular. In the oldest texts, the name began as Belum, but later became associated with Marduk, the national Babylonian god, and became shortened. But it is clearly bel and not bul. But you are correct with the idea of rain, as this word in practically all the languages around Israel referred to the storm-god. (The word bul, which appears in my Hebrew concordance and lexicon, appears only 3 times in the entire Old Testament, once as a Hebrew month, twice meaning "food.")

[The Amarna letters give strong evidence that by the 14th century B.C., the word b'al and derivatives was in widespread use all over Syria and Palestine. The Ba'al-Peor mentioned in the source you quoted was one distinctive ba'al among many. But other than the place-names, there is little to be learned from the words.
So much for the divine name usage, now for its origins and how it came to speak of deity.

The common Semitic word ba'lu means "lord," and with the following genitive frequently "owner." A few examples may be mentioned: Akkadian beli, "my lord," Ugaritic b'ly, "my lord"; Akkadian bel biti, "owner of the house," bel eqli, "owner of the field," bel seni, "owner of sheep"; Phoenician, b'l bqr, "owner of a herd of cattle," b'l s'n, "owner of sheep"; Aramaic b'ly rkb, "owner of a war-chariot," b'l ksp, "owner of silver"; Hebrew ba'al hashshor, "owner of the ox" (Ex. 21:28), ba'al habbor, "owner of the pit" (Ex. 21:34), and ba'al habbayith, "owner of the house" (Ex. 22:8). In this sense ba'al is also used in the plural of respect, of an individual owner (Ex. 21:29); Isa. 1:3).[/size]
The husband is "owner" of his wife, and therefore b'l also means "husband." Moreover, he is "lord of the house," "head of the family," and the king is "lord" over lands, cities, and subjects. In another sense, b'l can indicate that a person participates in a community. Thus b'l is used of a member of the city aristocracy (Jgs. 9:2, 20:5, 1 Sam. 23:11f., 2 Sam. 21:12, etc.) and of a partner in a covenant, Akk. bel ade or Heb. ba'al berith (Gen. 14:13). (Botterweck & Ringgren, TDOT, p. 181-182).

The word also takes on the idea of "master" in idiomatic expressions: ba'al chitstsim, "archer" ("master of arrows"), ba'al kanaph, "bird" ("master of wings"), and ba'al haqqeranayim, "having two horns" ("master of horns").

(On a side note, the only difference between ba'al and Ba'al, common noun versus proper name, is that Ba'al as a name takes the article in the Hebrew; thus Ba'al is "the Ba'al).
[/u].

Thanks for the indepth information, Reverend Wayne.

 

[Thaddeus]

. If you aren't interested in what I have to say, I won't bother you.
I'm not going to ask you any more questions, either, okay?

I'm sorry Plan 9 you're right. I shouldn't assume the masons aren't answering a certain question just because you have answered it. They do sometimes answer a question even though you have already answered.

 

[Plan 9]

It's unimportant, Thad; I don't consider my posts on any thread to be golden.

 

[billmcelligott]

Do these 30% dictate what the other 70% think or do?

They have a hard time dictating what they do. Most of them are 60 plus.

I have to smile when I see this "Masons are creating the NWO New World Order". Most of the guys I know can't organise their own lunchbox. The wife has to do that for them.

Now if someone started a rumour that the Women in Masonry were organising the NWO. You would have to take that seriously.

 

[billmcelligott]

I'm sorry Plan 9 you're right. I shouldn't assume the masons aren't answering a certain question just because you have answered it. They do sometimes answer a question even though you have already answered.

You are probably right there Thad, but you type out these things and hit the post button then you find its already ben done by the time its posted. I think we just have to make allowances.

 

[eliseb]

Quote form "Bill": "The original Masonic ritual book was written in English. Arround 1550 to 1650, much in Olde English, copying the memorized versions from 100 years before. Which is totally different from much that we use today.



Lets boil down the basics.

It is not Freemasons that put the emphysis on these words.

Freemasons do not say they are a Religion.

Freemasons do not say they pray to an alternative God.

Fremasons ask for nothing fom the rest of the community.

Freemasons do not tell you what to do with your faith....."etc.etc.







Yes , this ia all they DON'T do? But what DO they do? And I am still trying to figure out this Masonic scripture?The real point is here this is such a contraversial subject? There is so much to hide? What is all of this effort into lodges and degrees and all of this? At one point you all say there is no religous affiliation? Then I see these schools and all? Temples? And about Plan 9's comment? I have not ridiculed her for being poor? Or anybody? I am not rich? The Lord loves the poor?This has nothing to do with rich or poor?Why would I ever work for a charity if I had something against the poor??Has to do with deception?I am very sorry if you stand firm to this organization because they have reached their hands out you? But this is the point as well? Because somebody gave money or charity or helped when in need , but then defies the word and twists the word or exalts itself above the word, adds tothe word? And ignores the word?Focuses on other things asside from the word?This is ok because they were there in time of need? I was friends with somebody who claimed himself to be a born again Pagen sometime later in our friendship? He had given me a100.00 when I had a situation once? He prayed and then I saw his Pentagram neckless? Just like a car dealer who says he is there to bail you out of your short of cash problems? Don't pay now , but pay a whole heck of alot later?I don't know how to express to you? There are verses not to be partakers with evil? And to not be yoked to nonbelievers, if you love the Lord then you would detest this naturally and reject it?The bible also says not to become intangled with the yoke of bondage. What I am seeing here? And if you find this completely insulting , I am sorry but you know the Lord didn't really care who's feet he was stipping on to get the Word across to us? He did so much for us to get his word across to us? He suffered a horrible death for us? God sent him in the form of man?He healed the blind?He raised the dead? God sent him in form of man for us to relate to? And suffer for our soles? Gave us the word?CanMasons do this? We're to follow Him? Not other people and their works? Discernment is very important?I love the Lord with all my heart and trust his I have wavered stumbled it doesn't matter how foolishly or blind I have been? I thank him? I thank him for saving me . I thank him for his words? I thank him for all he has done for me? I am very careful to not be serving any other God's.I would allow creditors to come after me whatever if I had to leave a certain situation due to it being lets say unsavory to the Lord. he will take care of my situation. My phone bill is behind because I quit this charity? Who cares ?The money will come in one shape or form as it usually does. I place my faith my finances in Him? I 'don't care if one of these Shriners or masons came to give me all that it would take to pay my debts? Or all the basic things I need and desire just like everybody else? I would thank them but it would not move me that this oraganization is legitimate in the Lord's eyes?Do you understatnd what I am saying. Just like inthe revelations wherePaul is writing to the churches who thought they were serving the Lord in all ways and the Lord was telling them their faults to be corrected? Giving them time? To correct? Sometimes something may feel right? Or appear right but it is not right? NOt by God's book? So who's book are you going by here isthe question. ANd if it is not God's then there's many scriptures of warning what consequence a person will have for not recognizing he is the way and the ONLY way ..If you are still question ni the word then you ar not saved? It is very simple . He says he is the beginning and the end the Alpha and Omega. I f anyone feels ridiculed by this I am sorry.



This is what I believe and can see before I even read this passage?:



Quote from member:

"+Freemasonry is a religion that believes Lucifer is the "God of light and God of good, struggling for humanity against Adonay, God of darkness and evil."

+It is a secret society that demands adherents swear blind obedience on pain of death before they even know what it represents.



+It practises deception. It reserves its truths for the adept; the initiate is "intentionally mislead by false interpretations."

+It preaches "tolerance" and the universality of all religions in order to negate them all. Christianity is especially abjured. "Universality does not mean Christianity." (Quotes from Masonic Texts from Gary Kah, En Route to Global Occupation pp.120-140)"



Accepting all religeons to start teaching new concepts and the fact of the money and Masons having top political positions? Exalting themselves above the word? Have you ever read any books concerning the antichrist, one world nation, one bank ? All of this?Spiritual warfare?

 

[Rev Wayne]

Rev Wayne what do you say "On" from Jahbulon means?

Well Thaddeus, what "I" say wouldn't tell us much, but I shall say as much as I can find.

This word "on" was a booger to locate at first, starting as it does with two consonants that function as vowels. Eventually, Strong's concordance did the trick, the word is #202 & 203 in the Hebrew/Chaldee listings. It appears only 12 times in the entire OT, the best-known one coming from the Isaiah 40:28-31 passage about "mounting up with wings like eagles." Actually, within that passage are two separate words denoting strength; "on" comes in the phrase, "to those who have no might he increases strength." Here's what we've got, first from the ritual itself:

The third. . . . . is an Egyptian word, signifying, Father of all; it is also a Hebrew word, signifying strength or power

The ritualist was right on target, it is a Hebrew word meaning "strength." But he may have been mistaken on the idea of the word being also from the Egyptian, I have not been able to verify that. All we know for sure is that there is one mention in Scripture of an Egyptian city, and it is spelled the same as this word for strength. But the two appear to be unrelated. I have seen from some sources where On is suggested to be an Egyptian deity; others say it is related to Osiris, but it hardly seems likely that the god of the underworld would have a name signifying "Father of all."

49 'wn ('wn) II. Assumed root of the following.
(49a) 'own ('ôn) vigor, wealth.

This root occurs as a noun only twelve times. In Gen 49:3; Deut 21:17; Job 40:16; Psa 78:51; Psa 105:36, the word designates reproductive power as evidenced in the firstborn son. In Isa 40:26-27 the creative power of God is highlighted. Physical strength and/or wealth is denoted in Job 18:12; Job 20:10; Hos 12:9.
G.H.L.
(Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, Vol. 1, p. 24)

'wn ('ôn I), nom. generative power, sexual power, sexual virility; physical strength; wealth (#226)...(c) the despairing, weary, and self-pitying exiles who complain that God has abandoned them (Isaiah 40:27) are given the assurance that that the incomparable Yahweh--the everlasting, sovereign Creator (v. 28a), whose might is inexhaustible and whose understanding is unsearchable (v. 28b)--empowers the faint and increases the vitality and energy of those lacking innate strength (ule'en 'ônîm `osma yarbeh, lit., and to the one/those who has/have no vigor/vitality he will increase power [v. 29]). Heb. lacks a word for "omnipotent," but the idea is expressed in v. 26 by periphrasis (North, 88), where Yahweh is said to have an abundance of power (merob 'ônîm). Yahweh, whose power is infinite and whose grace is unfailing, is the sole source of renewal and vigor.
(New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Vol. 1, p. 315-318)

So we have "Jah," the root of the name God revealed to Moses, "I am," or literally, "I am what I will be"; bul or bel or ba'l, "lord"; and on, "strength or power." Thus the ritual makes the conclusion:

taken together they will read thus: I am and shall be, Lord in Heaven or on High, Father of all, the all powerful Jehovah

Make of it what you will, but from what I can determine from ritual, from the ritualist's expressed intent, and from exegesis, everything about this word and the ritual passage it derives from, shows that it does not tend toward the demonic, the pantheistic, or any such thing.

Wayne

 

[Plan 9]

And about Plan 9's comment? I ahve not ridiculed her for being poor? Or anybody? I am not rich? The Lord loves the poor?This has nothing to do with rich or poor?Why would I ever work for a charity if I had something against the poor??Has to do with deception?

I have still have your PM, which you sent to me in obvious answer to a post I had just made replying to one of yours. I'll be happy to bump my post and then copy and paste your PM. Then everyone here can be the judge of whether the Pm was of a ridiculing nature. Sound fair?

 

[Plan 9]

And to not be yoked to nonbelievers

eliseb, that passage deals specifically with marriage.

Quote from member:
"+Freemasonry is a religion that believes Lucifer is the "God of light and God of good, struggling for humanity against Adonay, God of darkness and evil."

Labeling 6,000,000 plus people Satanists does not strike me as a particularly Christian attitude.

 

[billmcelligott]

eliseb

I would say to you that Charity , is not something that is examined when it is recieved. those who are unfortunate to have fallen on hard times are just very grateful to have received some relief.

As in the Masonic ritual " Charity, it is twice blessed. It blesses him who gives , as well as him who receives"

I accept that you are correct when you put your life in the hands of the Lord, there will be a resolution to lifes problems.

You worked in a Shriners Hospital , how many people were given treatment there during your stay. With all the impurities of the system, the important thing is they received treatment. The world is not perfect, least of all us who live in it.

Lets say a God fearing man has had a run of bad luck. He has no money, he needs an operation , otherwise he will be in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. The Shriners find out about this mans plight. They arrange for the operation, they ask nothing in return. The man walks again.

How can you be sure the hand of God did not guide these events.

 

[Thaddeus]

This word "on" was a booger to locate at first, starting as it does with two consonants that function as vowels. Eventually, Strong's concordance did the trick, the word is #202 & 203 in the Hebrew/Chaldee listings. It appears only 12 times in the entire OT, the best-known one coming from the Isaiah 40:28-31 passage about "mounting up with wings like eagles." Actually, within that passage are two separate words denoting strength; "on" comes in the phrase, "to those who have no might he increases strength." Here's what we've got, first from the ritual itself:

I still have issues with "bul," but moving on.

Light; the sun, (Gen. 41:45, 50), the great seat of sun-worship, called also Bethshemesh (Jer. 43:13) and Aven (Ezek. 30:17), stood on the east bank of the Nile, a few miles north of Memphis, and near Cairo, in the north-east. The Vulgate and the LXX. Versions have "Heliopolis" ("city of the sun") instead of On in Genesis and of Aven in Ezekiel. The "city of destruction" Isaiah speaks of (Isa. 19:18, marg. "of Heres;" Heb.'Ir-ha-heres, which some MSS. read Ir-ha-heres, i.e., "city of the sun") may be the name given to On, the prophecy being that the time will come when that city which was known as the "city of the sun-god" shall become the "city of destruction" of the sun-god, i.e., when idolatry shall cease, and the worship of the true God be established.

Genesis 41:45 And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnath-paaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Poti-pherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt

We can agree on the Egyptian part.
So we can see that "On" is in fact a city. On in Egyptian means light or sun

I believe Ezekiel speaks about it in 30:17 the name has been changed to "Aven," which means Idoltry

Did you even consider that it might be the pagan god since it's in the Bible?

 

[billmcelligott]

http://www.survivalistskills.com/ENROUTE.HTM

Unfortunately none of the many links at the top of the page actually work.



Mr Gary H. Kah The problem with quoting someone is you leave the door open for th other side to get in and have a closer look.

Quote from the above web site :-

After months of getting nowhere, a door finally opened. One Sunday evening in 1986 while sharing at a church in northern Indiana, I met an elderly lady who introduced herself to me at the close of the service. She inquired whether I knew anything about Freemasonry and its influence on the New Age. I told her I was aware of its involvement but that I still did not understand exactly what role the Masonic Order played in the overall scheme of things.



In the months that followed, l received quite an education while combing through the major Masonic reference works. I found a repeated mention of such orders as the Illuminati, the Knights Templars, and the Rosicrucians, along with other cultish groups, which I had previously thought to be only myths. But I soon became convinced to the contrary, not only learning that they existed, but that Freemasonry was a modern-day continuation of Gnosticism and of the ancient mystery religions. While most sources placed the official birth of Freemasonry at 1717, Masonic references clearly indicated that the organization's history went back much further than this.



My Comments:



1) Major Masonic reference works ??? Shame he doesn’t say which books so we can check his findings

2) The man knew nothing in 1986 and now he is reported as an expert.

3) The birth of Modern Masonry wwas 1717 at the establishment of what is recognized as The United Grand Lodge of England. No one ever pretended it did not originate a long time before.

4) Knights Templar were a side order Warrior Monks of the Catholic Church

5) A quote from the Rosicrucian home page :

But you must preach by practice. You must become a servant of men yourself if you would have them believe in you. If you want them to follow, you must lead, or they will have the right to question your sincerity. Remember, "ye are a city upon a hill," and when you make professions they have a right to judge you by your fruits; therefore say little, serve much.

6) The Catholic Enc. Definition of Gnosticism :

The doctrine of salvation by knowledge. This definition, based on the etymology of the word (gnosis "knowledge", gnostikos, "good at knowing"), is correct as far as it goes, but it gives only one, though perhaps the predominant, characteristic of Gnostic systems of thought. Whereas Judaism and Christianity, and almost all pagan systems, hold that the soul attains its proper end by obedience of mind and will to the Supreme Power, i.e. by faith and works, it is markedly peculiar to Gnosticism that it places the salvation of the soul merely in the possession of a quasi-intuitive knowledge of the mysteries of the universe and of magic formulae indicative of that knowledge. Gnostics were "people who knew", and their knowledge at once constituted them a superior class of beings, whose present and future status was essentially different from that of those who, for whatever reason, did not know.



Which basically meant the more knowledge you have the better off you will be, well thats a surprise, so we find that these strange fearsome words mean.. Be good decent people and look after those who are less fortunate than you, learn as much as you can because then you can serve others to a higher degree than if you were ignorant.



Mr. Kah has followed a similar path to hundreds of prior authors on the Mystery subjects, create fear and then sell them a book to take the fear away.

 

[Thaddeus]

Rev do you preach at a public church?

 

[Thaddeus]

Bill do you know about the "cleopatra's Needle" of Thames Embankment?


If so, what do you know about it?