What is a counter-missionary?

[Shimshon]

Shimshon or SGM4HIM, may I please ask for a link to Derek's page or website? I'm interested in their views also. I do have the link to FFOZ, just the other is new to me. Thanks.

You bet.

Messianic Jewish Musings | Messianic Jewish Theology and Biblical reflection. Comments: derek4messiah@gmail.com

 

[aniello]

Shimshon,

Thank you, it is confirmation for what I just found by google-ing, or whatever you call this internetting stuff. I'm an old dude and it amazes me where all one can go on it, but ya hafta be careful what you find on the net, it seems. It's kinda hard for me to get the hang of it all. From a very fast cursory look, it looks like he(Derek L.) has some very interesting work he has done. Thank you.

 

[Heber]

My father once told me that for every spiritual blessing, there is a spiritual counterfeit that often appears parallel. From the days of the rampant selling of indulgences in the Middle Ages to such examples as stated above, there are always forces pulling in both directions. How many traditional Christians have "jumped on the Messianic bandwagon" to discover that the roots (and branches!) of Christianity are far more powerful than they ever imagined? Yes, such stories are frustrating, even infuriating! Such things are usually a sign that something else, somewhere, is going right. You've certainly got this Anglican thinking about her Jewish roots!

Hi Rana

Welcome to CF. Didn't know you had Jewish roots!

He was right! I've been saying this on here for many years. HaSatan cannot, of himself, originate anything. All he does is to copy that which G_d has himself created so, for everything HaSatan does, there is an original, perfect, wonderful and amazing original that is of G_d. Our job is to spot the real ones, not the false ones. In the Bank of England the staff in the Forgeries Dept. spend their time studying original notes and coins so that, when a good forgery appears, it will stand out like the proverbial sore thumb. They do NOT sit there dwelling on the forgeries.

 

[xDenax]

Im realllllly curious to find out who is passing out tracts in their Congregations?

I'm confused about your question which I can see in several different ways. Are you asking if people are passing out tracts in their MJ's congregations? Are you asking if people are passing out tracts in Jewish congregations? Or a third option?

 

[Tishri1]

Im asking if MJs are passing out tracts in the Jewish community or if their congregations do it.....Seems MJs have a pretty bad reputation for doing that and I just wanna get an idea of how many are represented here.

 

[yedida]

Im asking if MJs are passing out tracts in the Jewish community or if their congregations do it.....Seems MJs have a pretty bad reputation for doing that and I just wanna get an idea of how many are represented here.

I've always thought MJs were just kinda minding their own business. I've never heard of them out canvassing the streets.? That's a new one for me.

 

[Tishri1]

BTW- I have recently visited several anti-missionary websites and was very surprised by the amount of misinformation and hostile tone toward MJ and Christianity. It's one thing to say I don't believe Jesus fullfiled the messianic requirements based on scriptures a,b,e&h. etc. and have a civil tone; but they have gone way beyond this.

My hope would be that hurt or dissatisfied Christians that go there to explore their Hebrew roots, would spend and equal or greater amount of time at Michael Brown and FFOZ and other MJ scholarly sites to get a "fair and balanced" view.

I must be living with my head in the sand!! MJs have tracts????? MJs street evangelizing?? Or am I misunderstanding?
The congregation I was first a part of never did street witnessing. We passed out socks, coats, gloves, etc. to the homeless in the big cities in the winter, but it was done without making them listen to pay for their warmth. If they asked, we answered. We built a few orphanages and schools in 3rd world countries and supported them. And we supported a few congregations in Russia, China, and Israel, but we did no street evangelizing at all. We just lived our lives to be seen by whoever had eyes to see.
Where I'm at now, the congregation is way too small and scattered to have any kind of organization that doing that would entail.

But, i've not seen the evangelical Jews for Jesus type of missionary in almost 10 yrs. And I live in a relatively big city. I think it was almost 8yrs ago that I ran into a J4J booth in a mall right before hanukkah. They had those tye-dyed type candles that caught my eye. Spent about 4 min talking to them. Never was my thing..... J4J.

But no, i've not seen any Messianic Jews who evangelize. Most are Messianic gentiles who do this, from my experience.

 

[Tishri1]

I've seen the other websites too and they are not being honest about MJs and missionary activity. It's been a while since I ventured into one of those but last one was before I came here to CF and I was drawn in by a counter missionary and lasted about a week. They haven't changed much?

 

[xDenax]

Im asking if MJs are passing out tracts in the Jewish community or if their congregations do it.....Seems MJs have a pretty bad reputation for doing that and I just wanna get an idea of how many are represented here.

Ah, okay.

 

[anisavta]

Tish - as far as I know the only ones passing out tracts are the J4Js. Unless its one of those churches that mascarade as MJs. I'm not aware of any in the UMJC. Are there any you know of?

 

[xDenax]

As a Messianic Jew the traditional Jewish community has and will shun you out from most all communal activities. I was accepted all my life till I started expressing faith in Yeshua. The traditional communities will have nothing to do with 'Messies who believe in Yeshu' as they like to call us. Then they go so far as to deride your Jewishness.

Messianics would be welcome in the community around here so long as they aren't trying to get others to accept Jesus.

 

[Shimshon]

Messianics would be welcome in the community around here so long as they aren't trying to get others to accept Jesus.

By around here I presume you mean 'in your community'? I am sorry, but this has not been my experience. I appreciate the intent of your words though.

 

[Lulav]

.

 

[Desert Rose]

Messianics would be welcome in the community around here so long as they aren't trying to get others to accept Jesus.

Agreed. Thats how it is in the most communities I ever been or communicated with. I am always welcome in any, even pretty orthodox one, as long as one is respectful to other people's faith, why not? Actually that is true to most churches as well, as long as person is not showing disagreement with their beliefs, he is welcome.

When in Rome, do as romans do ....

 

[Tishri1]

Tish - as far as I know the only ones passing out tracts are the J4Js. Unless its one of those churches that mascarade as MJs. I'm not aware of any in the UMJC. Are there any you know of?

No in fact I havent seen any groups like that since the late 70s early 80s like Shimshon said and none at all in the MJ community......Ive been shopping and dinning in Orthodox Jewish communities(LA/Hollywood area) and there weren't any there either, I have friends who live up there I will ask them.....

Our congregation is one of the largest MJ ones in So Cal so I will ask our Rabbi too if he knows of any


I know he will specifically announce no one is to pass out tracts or bother people when we do events with other Rabbinic Jews so maybe he has heard of it happening. Ive yet to see one single tract come out even in large events.

Sounds to me like we are getting labeled with some horrible acts that just dont happen or if they do the events are sooooo rare and isolated that no one sees or knows about them in the MJ community....

Its ashame MJs are vilified for this.

 

[Tishri1]

Agreed. Thats how it is in the most communities I ever been or communicated with. I am always welcome in any, even pretty orthodox one, as long as one is respectful to other people's faith, why not? Actually that is true to most churches as well, as long as person is not showing disagreement with their beliefs, he is welcome.

When in Rome, do as romans do ....

I dont know about with in their communities as Ive yet to share my faith with any Jew who isnt asking me first or isnt a believer first, but when we do things together and no one's in the other persons face, we do get along and enjoy each other's groups, but these are neutral settings or happen at our congregation not theirs

I havent seen any animosity but I have seen caution coming from these groups....gee no wonder if we are falsely labeled missionaries in their communities!

 

[Desert Rose]

I dont know about with in their communities as Ive yet to share my faith with any Jew who isnt asking me first or isnt a believer first, but when we do things together and no one's in the other persons face, we do get along and enjoy each other's groups, but these are neutral settings or happen at our congregation not theirs

I havent seen any animosity but I have seen caution coming from these groups....gee no wonder if we are falsely labeled missionaries in their communities!

I agree. Its kind of bashing my own, but i never shy from criticizing if its due- being pushy and thus counterproductive in converting people is rather Evangelicals domain, they own it . Its very,very stupid, totally nuts indeed. I never seen MJ doing anything like that.

You surely have your share of kooks and crazies among MJs and MJ denoms,(just as we christians do), and I've encountered a few, but annoying people with forcibly pedaling their faith, no, I dont think MJ ever do that.

PS ... wait... the thread OP came from a Jew who was accused, by an MJ person, of being "counter-missionary", and YonahMichael had to explain he doesnt object to MJ missionaries. So does that means some MJs are "missionaries"? Hope they are a big rarity, and not in the worst traditions of Christianity in that regard

 

[aniello]

Timely topic for my wife and I. We are quite Zionist.

At this very moment my wife is up in town waiting to pick up an Israeli chap named Yishai, who is a sabra, IDF, attorney and Orthodox rabbi. Also he has a lot to do with INN(Arutz Sheva) radio, like he's the director, as I understand it.

We had arranged for a nice lady(we figured an MG) to pick up him and his family, the nice lady has a very nice large car, larger than our TDI Jetta. Well, she called early this morning and proceeded to tell the wife and I how she was going to give him and his wife her knock-out "witness" once they were safely "trapped" in her car(her choice of the word "trapped"). She said; "they'll have to listen". Oh joy, oh rupture!!

We rented a large car, the wife is up at the airport now, oh, and we relieved the nice lady from her chauffer duties to refreshments at the seminar at our dati Orthodox Shul in a town further north of here.

The chap from Israel, being a rabbi, has heard the gospel before, he is an attorney, as am I but mostly I'm trying to retire, but I can tell you that he could debate the bark off a tree at 1000 yards, no effort for him at all, I can personally attest for that. His purpose here is to garner support for the cause of Yisrael, and to try to make friends for Yisrael amongst both Jews and Gentiles.

We tried to council with her to be appropriate to the occasion, but no she insisted.

Well, what can ya do. Sigh.

I would have posted a link to the schedule for this week-end's events but I'm not sure it's allowed and we have security problems here due to certain of the "religion of peace" rag-head group(s). We will have police at the events.

Am Yisrael Chai!!!

 

[Shimshon]

Nice, aniello. Years back our congregation had the pleasure of facilitating David Rubin, the former mayor of Shiloh. He too was seeking support for Yisrael, in a Messianic congregation. Though most of us had relatives or activities in Yisrael.

He was a pleasure to talk to, enjoyed it very much. May your visit be blessed the same.

 

[anisavta]

We had arranged for a nice lady(we figured an MG) to pick up him and his family, the nice lady has a very nice large car, larger than our TDI Jetta. Well, she called early this morning and proceeded to tell the wife and I how she was going to give him and his wife her knock-out "witness" once they were safely "trapped" in her car(her choice of the word "trapped"). She said; "they'll have to listen". Oh joy, oh rupture!!

LOL! I almost spit rice all over my computer!
Ya just want to take these "well meaning" people and lock them up in a room with no windows and one 40W bulb. Let them save each other!