What if you seek and don't find?

[Oncedeceived]

Have you ever believed in something and then changed your mind when more information became available?

Most certainly but I've never known for a fact something and later changed my mind. I would never change my mind about facts... things we are certain about are not up for a change of mind.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Well we could go back and forth like that but maybe it would be helpful to ask how confident are you that your God exists. On a scale where 0 is all doubt and no confidence and 100 being all confidence and no doubt?

100%, no doubt whatsoever.

 

[HitchSlap]

I do know He exists.

Knowledge is demonstrable. The only thing you "know," is that you believe god/s exist.

 

[HitchSlap]

Most certainly but I've never known for a fact something and later changed my mind. I would never change my mind about facts... things we are certain about are not up for a change of mind.

You've never been certain f something, only to find out later, that you were mistaken?

 

[Athée]

Knowledge is demonstrable. The only thing you "know," is that you believe god/s exist.

100%, no doubt whatsoever.

Wow that is super strong How did you arrive at that 100 percent confidence mark? What is it that convinces you so strongly that it is true?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Knowledge is demonstrable. The only thing you "know," is that you believe god/s exist.

Demonstrate how knowledge is only demonstrable.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Wow that is super strong How did you arrive at that 100 percent confidence mark? What is it that convinces you so strongly that it is true?

God revealed Himself to me and no doubt came from full revelation of God.

 

[Athée]

Gotta go pick up our girls from their private Christian school (irony right?... But it is important to my wife and I love her). I will follow up when I'm done making dinner, doing homework with the kids etc

 

[Athée]

God revealed Himself to me and no doubt came from full revelation of God.

I would love to hear more about that experience as it sounds like it was very powerful for you.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You've never been certain f something, only to find out later, that you were mistaken?

My certainty is at the same level as being certain my name is what it is, the same certainty that I was raised as long as I remember by two people who were my parents, the same certainty that I live where I live and no where else. That kind of certainty doesn't change.

 

[HitchSlap]

God revealed Himself to me and no doubt came from full revelation of God.

You've never had a "my god, my god, why has thou forsaken me," moment then?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Gotta go pick up our girls from their private Christian school (irony right?... But it is important to my wife and I love her). I will follow up when I'm done making dinner, doing homework with the kids etc

Very good. We will take up how you know you love her later.

 

[HitchSlap]

My certainty is at the same level as being certain my name is what it is, the same certainty that I was raised as long as I remember by two people who were my parents, the same certainty that I live where I live and no where else. That kind of certainty doesn't change.

You know what's demonstrable? Everything you've listed here.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You've never had a "my god, my god, why has thou forsaken me," moment then?

Yes, before I knew God existed.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You know what's demonstrable? Everything you've listed here.

I agree. Demonstrate how knowledge is demonstrable.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I would love to hear more about that experience as it sounds like it was very powerful for you.

It was.

 

[HitchSlap]

Yes, before I believed* God existed.

*corrected for accuracy.

 

[Oncedeceived]

*corrected for accuracy.

Don't change my post. I said what I said because it is true. I don't think that you would appreciate me doing that to you would you?

 

[HitchSlap]

Don't change my post. I said what I said because it is true. I don't think that you would appreciate me doing that to you would you?

Words have meanings. Stating to know something that can't be demonstrated, is simply, a belief. Unless you're able to demonstrate that your god/s exists in reality, then you're unable to enjoy the claim that you know something.

Your condescension towards Kvothe is embarrassing, to say the least. He was relating his story to you, that he was every bit a committed Christian that you think you are, and then he began to investigate, and ultimately realized, there were no good reasons to believe any longer. What you fail to see is, this says more about your insecurities in your personal faith than it does about him. It scares you to even consider the fact that if a "true" Christian, like me, or Kvothe, used to be, could lose our faith, your only option is to double down, and deny anyone else their personal experience. In your arrogance, you have basically accused Kvothe of not being a "true" Christian and not really knowing god existed. This is why he stated that maybe you were "talking past each other."

As I've said, knowledge is demonstrable, otherwise, regardless of how certain you are, all you have is belief.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Words have meanings. Stating to know something that can't be demonstrated, is simply, a belief. Unless you're able to demonstrate that your god/s exists in reality, then you're unable to enjoy the claim that you know something.

Like I said, demonstrate how knowledge is demonstrable.

Your condescension towards Kvothe is embarrassing, to say the least.

I hope that Kvothe is not as paranoid as you are. I feel no condescension towards Kvothe.

He was relating his story to you, that he was every bit a committed Christian that you think you are, and then he began to investigate, and ultimately realized, there were no good reasons to believe any longer. What you fail to see is, this says more about your insecurities in your personal faith than it does about him. It scares you to even consider the fact that if a "true" Christian, like me, or Kvothe, used to be, could lose our faith, your only option is to double down, and deny anyone else their personal experience. In your arrogance, you have basically accused Kvothe of not being a "true" Christian and not really knowing god existed. This is why he stated that maybe you were "talking past each other."

I totally agree that he was the same type of Christian as I was before God revealed Himself to me. I've not said he wasn't a "true" Christian, you keep doing that.

As I've said, knowledge is demonstrable, otherwise, regardless of how certain you are, all you have is belief.

Unless you can demonstrate how knowledge is only knowledge if it is demonstrable then your argument fails. I understand what belief is and I understand what knowing is and I know God exists. You can not demonstrate how you know that I only believe and don't know that God exists...can you?