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What if you’re wrong about hell?

Lazarus Short

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Good verse, and I agree with "You have got to believe in Him to make it!!!"

But there is more to the story...

Look at the end of the Revelation, chapter 22, verse 17, where all are told, "Come." Yes, come through the gates that never close to "take the water of life freely."

Looking further ahead, at First Corinthians 15:28, we see the result: God has become All in all.
 
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Charlie24

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Speaking of junk, where did you get the idea that the sheep and goats have any bearing on "helping Israel" or not? Where is the mention of Armageddon or the Antichrist? It is not in the relevant verses, so Charlie, where did you get that mess from?

I got it from Matt. 25:31-32, where the judgement of the nations begins.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

You see, this judgement begins when Christ sits on His throne. when does this happen?

After He returns He will sit on His throne having saved Israel from the antichrist, Rev. 19:19-20.
 
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mmksparbud

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He knocked. I answered His knock. I opened the door. That is what He has asked.
 
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Charlie24

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Laz you must be using that UR version of scripture. There is no "come through the gates that never close" in the KJV.

“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”

This verse is for "the thirsty for the water of life." Not the ones who are going to hell.

I've already explained the "all and all." Remember I said, "that was a good question?"

I'll go back and get the post # if you need it.
 
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Der Alte

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Thus, while aionios carries the idea of time, though not of endlessness, there belongs to it also, more or less, a sense of quality. Its character is ethical rather than mathematical.
Vincent's unsupported opinion
Virtually every objection Vincent makes can be explained by one word "hyperbole" of which there are many examples in the Bible. "Hyperbole" derives from the Greek word ὑπερβολή,/uperbolé literally "throw beyond". "Uperbolé occurs 5 times in the NT, all by Paul, 2 Corinthians 3:10, 2 Corinthians 9:13, Ephesians 1:19, Ephesians 2:7 and Ephesians 3:19.
Here is an example of hyperbole with the word "world."

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
There are 10 verses in the NT where kosmos/world is used hyperbolically but I don't see anyone arguing that Kosmos never means the entire planet. I wonder why the only word heterodox groups argue about is the word "aionios?"
Matthew 16:26, John 5:19. Mark 8:36, Luke 9:25, Romans 1:8, 1 John 5:19, Revelation 12:9, Luke 2:1, Acts of the apostles 19:27, Acts of the Apostles 13:3



 
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mmksparbud

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They not only have their own versions of scriptures---they have their own version of Greek definitions! You have to research their so called truth for the truth!
 
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mmksparbud

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They also apparently can not think for themselves and endlessly quote other Universalists, as though that is some sort of proof! That's like one Nazi quoting another Nazi for verification!!
 
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Lazarus Short

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They also apparently can not think for themselves and endlessly quote other Universalists, as though that is some sort of proof! That's like one Nazi quoting another Nazi for verification!!

I can speak for myself, and state that I spent two years of study in the KJV for the purpose of determining for myself which was true:

damnationism

annihilationism

or

universalism.

I found support for all, but to me the latter was the clear winner. I don't often quote other Universalists, but sometimes I will quote from the book that my notes became. BTW, your Nazi insult is a rather low blow, or can you imagine one Nazi telling another, "We're going to save the Jews, the Gypsies, and the Russkies! How about that?!" "Ja, good idea!"
 
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mmksparbud

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Insult? Replace the word Nazi with Communists, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist---It is not an insult. The point is quoting someone that believes in your same believes as verification of those believes. You've twisted things.
 
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YesMe

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You are right, universalism is the one true answer that I too have found, everybody gets there in the end... This is my humble opinion from a man who has studied the bible ( most of the christians have never really studied the bible and they keep on talking that they know the answer ) and the other religious beliefs.

Everybody gets there in the end! The Bible has many layers of understanding, the first layer, it's the literal interpretation, 99% of the christians stop here, some out of fear and some out of ignorance, they are too confortable with their present status and do not want to lose their ticket to Heaven. Ask questions, seek answers, you will be completely amazed how what you considered to be the truth is only a part of the truth and that the truth is so much bigger and greater!
 
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fwGod

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I believe that there is a forever burning hell, even as I believe in a eternal heaven, however the White Throne Judgement decides the wicked into outer darkness, so "forever" for the wicked is a length according to the moment that they arrived in hell until all stand before God at TWTJ.

Hell is originally meant for satan and his demons. Those people who sided/or do side with him are therefore sent to hell to share in the torments of hell intended for satan.

Conclusion: Hell burns forever, but Bible verse(s) suggest that sinners may not, or do not stay in hell forever.

The fact that there are any number of Christians who hold to a different interpretation shows clearly that none of us but God Himself know for certain. At some point in time as we one day watch the final reward of the wicked, that is when we'll all know for certain.
 
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FineLinen

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I believe that there is a forever burning hell, even as I believe in a eternal heaven..

Wonderful!

I Believe

I believe in "the restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouths of the prophets since the world began." -Acts 3:21-

I believe that the "good tidings of great joy will be to all people." -Luke 2:10

I believe that believers in Christ Jesus are "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God." -John 1:13-

I believe

I believe that God appointed Jesus Christ "heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe." -Hebr. 1:2-

I believe that "no man can come to Christ unless the Father who sent Him draws him." -John 6:44

I believe "God gave Jesus authority over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as God gave him." -John 17:2-

I believe

I believe the Father "has given all things into Jesus' hands." -John 13:3-

I believe that Jesus Christ "was the true light which gives light to every man who come into the world." -John 1:9

I believe that "just as the result of one trespass was condemnation to all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification for all men." -Romans 5:18

I believe one mans sin "brought condemnation for all mankind." -Romans 5: 19-

I believe one mans righteousness brings "right relationship with God, and new life for everyone." -Romans 5:19-

I believe one mans sin made the whole of mankind sinners. I also believe the righteousness of one Man makes the whole of mankind righteous.
 
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YesMe

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People are afraid that if they question God's "word" they will be sent to hell...

I leave here something that I wrote a while ago on this forums and there was no one able to answer me:

"You use some strong words but you are not able to discuss with me about scriptures, it's so easy to accuse, right? We all do this, we accuse, we judge people, we think we are better than the others, that the truth is ours and that the others are wrong, this is how conflict arises.

So I gave you those two Matthew verses to show you something, this is my own finding, it's what I call a revelation to me, because I've been asking for the true understanding of scriptures for years.

The law: "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" comes from Exodus 21:24 "Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot" - but the whole "set of laws" starts with Exodus 20 " And God spake all these words, saying," The Hebrew word for God used there was Yahweh, so it was Yahweh who gave that law of which I spoke above.

Matthew 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’" - Matthew 5:39 "But I TELL YOU, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also"

Now, look at these two verses of Matthew, Jesus never points the fact that it was Yahweh who gave that law, He used the expression "you have heard that it was said", it was not said, even in His time, that law was written down, but He used this expression to point that this was just said, not inspired by the divine, so who added that law?

In the next verse, He goes on saying "BUT I TELL YOU", making a clear distinction between what Yahweh said and what Jesus says, then giving the true law, on of love and forgiveness, so is Yahweh and Jesus one and the same or someone altered the image of Yahweh by adding all sorts of things that Yahweh never talked about?

This law "eye for eye and tooth for tooth", from my research, is a law that governs the creation but it's not the "true", so to say, law of God, God's true law is all about love and forgiveness, this is what Jesus preached, among many other things.

You see, if you can answer, please, you say I talk about false things...."

Just one thing that I myself have found in the Bible after my own personal research, people say that Yahweh is Jesus, then Jesus, in Matthew, contradicted Himself... because it was Yahweh who gave that law or wasn't he? Maybe someone added that law, you know, a human, now, ask yourself how many other things have been altered right from the very beginning of when these scriptures were written..
 
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Lazarus Short

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No, I consulted a KJV. As far as I know, there is no official "UR Version" of the Bible, but I just favor those not using the pagan word "hell."

As far as gates, I found at Revelation 21:25 that they are never shut. Then, verse 27 states that the defiled, the abominable, the liar cannot pass. So, I must yield the point - "come" applies only to the saved...at that point in time. "Hell" was not mentioned, and in the end God still becomes All in all.
 
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Lazarus Short

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Insult? Replace the word Nazi with Communists, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist---It is not an insult. The point is quoting someone that believes in your same believes as verification of those believes. You've twisted things.

From where I stand, it looks like the twisting began with Constantine and the Nicene Council, and that we are un-twisting a theo-illogical mess.
 
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mmksparbud

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I can speak for myself, and state that I spent two years of study in the KJV for the purpose of determining for myself which was true:

2 years? Commendable. I've ben studying this for over 35 years. And still---I find your concept to be the same lie that was given to Eve---Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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2 years? Commendable. I've ben studying this for over 35 years. And still---I find your concept to be the same lie that was given to Eve---Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Is not that the whole identity of the false gospel(s) being presented on the forum in dozens of threads this year and past years ?
Just like what the serpent said to the woman "ye shall not surely die"....
obviously and simply a lie.
 
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Lazarus Short

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2 years? Commendable. I've ben studying this for over 35 years. And still---I find your concept to be the same lie that was given to Eve---Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

It is not the same at all - who can deny on this side of the eating of the fruit that we shall not surely die? We see it every day. What I am saying is that we all get resurrected, some get corrective punishment, but in the end Death is defeated/destroyed and God becomes All in all.
 
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mmksparbud

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From where I stand, it looks like the twisting began with Constantine and the Nicene Council, and that we are un-twisting a theo-illogical mess.

\Constantine didn't accuse me of insulting him, you did. And He did mess things up.
 
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