What if we hear from ET?

[TricksterWolf]

You are right in that the situation could not be the same, in India of course the community was the result of the Saint Thomas the Apostle, who had brought the Gospel to India long before it crossed the minds of the Portuguese.

That is why I said that my strength would be incredibly strengthened; if they did have a religion already set up that mirrored Christianity, how would that be possible without God?

More realistically though I would be interested to know what religion, if any, that they had. I think it would be interesting if, for instance, they had prophecies of a need a savior, even if they didn't know that it would be Jesus.

If you ask me even if aliens had a religion at all it would be astounding, and if it was monotheistic that would be even more amazing.

Considering the natural preponderance of religion on Earth, I'd think it bizarre if aliens didn't have religion.

Trickster

 

[OdwinOddball]

Considering the natural preponderance of religion on Earth, I'd think it bizarre if aliens didn't have religion.

Trickster

I would find it odd if they had never had a period of religious belief in their history, but I would not find it at all odd if any space faring aliens did not still have such belief. Science and religion too often come into conflict, and the level of science needed to succesfully travel between stars is so far in advance of ours that such beings are likely to have banished many of the gaps in knowledge where religon finds footholds today.


Edited a contradictory phrase.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Science and religion too often come into conflict, and the level of science needed to succesfully travel between stars is so far in advance of ours that such beings are likely to have banished many of the gaps in knowledge where religon finds footholds today.

That's a rather culturally specific condition, I doubt it is pandemic to the universe.

 

[OdwinOddball]

That's a rather culturally specific condition, I doubt it is pandemic to the universe.

Not especially. There is a fairly noticeable inverse relaitionship between the extent of subjects covered by religion & supersition and that covered by science. We discovered how fire works, no more fire gods. We discovered what lightening is, no more thunder gods. We reduced the unknowns down to just where we came from, and where we are going, and we reduced the god count down to one to match it.

 

[TricksterWolf]

I would find it odd if they had never had a period of religious belief in their history, but I would not find it at all odd if any space faring aliens did not still have such belief. Science and religion too often come into conflict, and the level of science needed to succesfully travel between stars is so far in advance of ours that such beings are likely to have banished many of the gaps in knowledge where religon finds footholds today.


Edited a contradictory phrase.

I think that's silly. Look at how advanced we are, yet nearly everyone on Earth and even most scientists believe in God.

100 years ago scientists were convinced there would be no religion in 100 years. Shows just how ignorant they were about the importance of religion to humanity. People aren't religious because they're weak, stupid, or ignorant. People are religious because religion provides meaning, something science cannot do.

Trickster

 

[KarateCowboy]

Say that tomorrow we detect radio signals from space. It's a television program from another world, with beings that are clearly alien to our own. What happens to faith? Three main questions:

1) Would we need to analyze their culture (to see if they are ethical by our standards) before determining if they have souls, or would we assume they have souls by default?

2) Would our religions (like Jesus' love) apply to them? Conditionally or fully?

3) Would your religious beliefs change? (Any statement to the effect that "I am completely unable to believe that God made alien beings" will be considered a YES to this question.)

Trickster

What does this have to do with morality?

 

[OdwinOddball]

I think that's silly. Look at how advanced we are, yet nearly everyone on Earth and even most scientists believe in God.

100 years ago scientists were convinced there would be no religion in 100 years. Shows just how ignorant they were about the importance of religion to humanity. People aren't religious because they're weak, stupid, or ignorant. People are religious because religion provides meaning, something science cannot do.

Trickster

It's not at all silly, its historically factual. And as time goes by, the importance and dominance of religion in peoples lives continues to wane. The current resurgence in fundamentaliism is a direct reaction to this. Only time will tell if we will survive this period of change, but the change is undeniable.

I am not foolish enough to think religion is dieing out, I think religion will exist for a long time to come. As long as we have gaps in our knowledge, there remain places for religion to gain a foothold in peoples minds.

Do all people follow relgiion because they are weak, stupid, or ignorant? No, of course not, though certainly many do. They are raised in a religion, and never have the courage, or insight to ever question it. And yes, many adopt a relgion because it does provide a sense of comfort to those who bbelieve, even when those same believers live lives contrary to the tenants of their beliefs.

You are right in one thing, science does not provide meaning. The funny thing is, it isn't supposed to. Only those who do not have a great understanding of science ever say that it should do so. Science explains only the how. Philosophy(including theology) explains the whys.

The difference in our views, and why we cannot and will not ever find common ground here, is that you view religious belief as a postive force that despite the occasional mis-step is a good philosophy overall. I on the other hand view reiligious belief as a negative force that despite the occasional positve step is a poor philosophy that allows the believer to take the easy road when it comes to asking the hard questions.

 

[TricksterWolf]

What does this have to do with morality?

You don't think our determination of who has a soul is a moral question? You're welcome to report the thread and have it moved somewhere else in the Non-Christian section.

Trickster

 

[TricksterWolf]

It's not at all silly, its historically factual. And as time goes by, the importance and dominance of religion in peoples lives continues to wane. The current resurgence in fundamentaliism is a direct reaction to this. Only time will tell if we will survive this period of change, but the change is undeniable.

Then provide figures, because I call shenanigans.

Trickster

 

[OdwinOddball]

Then provide figures, because I call shenanigans.

Trickster

Before I go spending a bunch of time putting together a history lesson. Ask yourself these questions.

When was the last time that polytheistic religions comprised the bulk of religious belief?

How many new religions have been created in the last 2000 years versus how many have died out?

How many people actively practice a religon in contrast to the religion of their parents today, versus 1000 years ago? 500 years ago? 100 years ago?

What percentage of the population now publically consdiers themselves Atheist or Agnostic versus in years past? How many now consider themselves spiritual but not religous, or folow a philosophical(no diety) system versus a religious system?

What percentage of those who profess religious beliefs actively take part in religious ceremonies/functions today versus the past? (ie, how many just on Holidays believers are there?)

 

[Ave Maria]

I think we'd have to wait and see if they have souls. I, for one, would be waiting for word from the Vatican about it.

 

[OdwinOddball]

I think we'd have to wait and see if they have souls. I, for one, would be waiting for word from the Vatican about it.

Indeed, wouldnt want to stress yourself trying to think for yourself.

Always best to let someone else do that nasty troublesome thinking for you.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Indeed, wouldnt want to stress yourself trying to think for yourself.

Always best to let someone else do that nasty troublesome thinking for you.

If you had a question about whales, would you ask a plumber or a marine biologist? The Catholics in this thread have merely suggested that a theological question is best answered by one who has studied theology. Or better yet, a large group of people studied in theology.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Considering the natural preponderance of religion on Earth, I'd think it bizarre if aliens didn't have religion.

Trickster

Really? Look at all of the other animal species on Earth. Do they really have anything in the way of religion? Yes you could argue that religion takes a certain amount of intelligence to come about, but in any case even on Earth religion seems to be a supremely human affair. It seems rather arrogant to assume that any alien would necessarily need to have religion, when it doesn't even extend beyond humanity on our own planet.

 

[fanatiquefou]

Anyone here ever read The Sparrow, by Maria Doria Russell? It tries to answer this question - basically she sets it up so that the first people to contact the new aliens is a Jesuit mission. It's not the best-written book in the world, but I thought it was fascinating.

Also, I think it would be AWESOME if we discovered other intelligent life out there. I really do believe with the universe just being so huge that there must be more people somewhere. It's just whether or not we'll ever find them, or they'll find us.

And as far as my faith goes, I don't think it would affect it at all, unless it strengthens it. If there are others out there, they're all in the hands of the same God, whatever their religions may be.

 

[Mling]

Really? Look at all of the other animal species on Earth. Do they really have anything in the way of religion? Yes you could argue that religion takes a certain amount of intelligence to come about, but in any case even on Earth religion seems to be a supremely human affair. It seems rather arrogant to assume that any alien would necessarily need to have religion, when it doesn't even extend beyond humanity on our own planet.

The degree of devotion that elephants show to their dead feels a whole lot like ancestor worship to me. At the very least, they seem to engage in functionally useless displays of emotion, devoted to the remains of their dead, before proceding to remove the tusks (if the remains are in skeleton form, and the tusks are removable) and hide them someplace.

So I would say yeah, there does seem to be evidence of some type of formalized, deliberate, emotionally cathartic rituals, which serve no practical function from the point of view of survival, among at least one other species. If that isn't precisely religion, it's close enough in my mind.

To answer the real questions, I wouldn't see a whole lot of difference between us and the ET's. Back in the day (the day that was very long ago), there were lots of tiny tribes. One by one, they all had to learn that they weren't the only people around. Then there was contact between the continents and islands, and we all had to learn that again. If there are people outside our planet also, it would be the natural next step. I would think that Jesus died for them, or maybe every planet has it's own system. Either way, though I don't believe that people are saved by believing the correct doctrine, so it wouldn't matter much to me. I would be very busy trying to learn their language.

Unless, of course, they've only come to plow the Earth out of the way because we're annoying or something. Then I'd be decidely unhappy about it.

I'll assume that they are people, and thus be-souled.

 

[TricksterWolf]

Really? Look at all of the other animal species on Earth. Do they really have anything in the way of religion? Yes you could argue that religion takes a certain amount of intelligence to come about, but in any case even on Earth religion seems to be a supremely human affair. It seems rather arrogant to assume that any alien would necessarily need to have religion, when it doesn't even extend beyond humanity on our own planet.

I don't assume alien animals would have religion. I assume anyone with language would have religion, in particular, an alien race capable of broadcasting radio. This assumption is based on a 100% correlation with what we see here on Earth. Religion is pervasive in every human culture, having evolved separately in many places, over and over again. I can't imagine aliens would not have religion. I mean, I can imagine it, but I think the probability is extremely remote.

Trickster

 

[MoonlessNight]

I don't assume alien animals would have religion. I assume anyone with language would have religion, in particular, an alien race capable of broadcasting radio. This assumption is based on a 100% correlation with what we see here on Earth. Religion is pervasive in every human culture, having evolved separately in many places, over and over again. I can't imagine aliens would not have religion. I mean, I can imagine it, but I think the probability is extremely remote.

Trickster

But again, the argument is essentially that they must because humans do. If we were observing two sapient species and both had religion we would have something. But right now all we have is one observation really, and that doesn't tell us anything about the distribution other than religion is possible. But we don't know how likely it is.

To put it another way: there is no human language in which a whistle is used as a letter. This is certainly both physically and linguistically possible, yet it doesn't happen. Would we then say that the chances of aliens incorporating whistles as a repeating part of their language would be an extremely remote probability? I doubt it.

 

[TricksterWolf]

But again, the argument is essentially that they must because humans do. If we were observing two sapient species and both had religion we would have something. But right now all we have is one observation really, and that doesn't tell us anything about the distribution other than religion is possible. But we don't know how likely it is.

To put it another way: there is no human language in which a whistle is used as a letter. This is certainly both physically and linguistically possible, yet it doesn't happen. Would we then say that the chances of aliens incorporating whistles as a repeating part of their language would be an extremely remote probability? I doubt it.

I think sapient aliens with language would have to share certain things with humans in order to have developed technology, including logic, perception, and abstract thought. But also religion, and here's why...

I don't think any race can make it to technology without hitting religion first, because religion is clearly the birth of science: it is that first sense of wonder needed to explain away the natural world. No religion, no science. From that assumption I would extend the idea that religion is so valuable, once gleaned, it is never discarded from a larger culture. It provides too much meaning that science cannot.

Trickster

 

[meebs]

Say that tomorrow we detect radio signals from space. It's a television program from another world, with beings that are clearly alien to our own. What happens to faith? Three main questions:

1) Would we need to analyze their culture (to see if they are ethical by our standards) before determining if they have souls, or would we assume they have souls by default?

Dont beleive in the soul!

2) Would our religions (like Jesus' love) apply to them? Conditionally or fully?

Say we established full contact and good relations - they could follow any of our religions if it suited their beleifs and i suspect people from our planet would do the same, if of course these ETs were religious in nature at all.

3) Would your religious beliefs change? (Any statement to the effect that "I am completely unable to believe that God made alien beings" will be considered a YES to this question.)

Trickster

No my philosophies would most likely stay intact. I would of course read and learn of what they beleive. Who knows, maybe they'd have something to teach us?

Awesome stuff

Then again, hypotheitcally, depending on how far the radio signals originated, their current culture could be be long dead or they simply would have have gone extinct. Or maybe they would be circling the planet watching us and at the same time listening to their ancient radio signals in wonder themselves!