What if the rapture was tomorrow?

[SpiritPsalmist]

Did you see a date in my post? I didn't see a date in my post. Anyone else see a date in my post???

Nowhere did I say you did.

 

[Faulty]

Nowhere did I say you did.

That was the implication I received from your post. If I understood it wrong, I apologize for my misunderstanding.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

That was the implication I received from your post. If I understood it wrong, I apologize for my misunderstanding.

I did not mean to imply it at all. I was merely writing down what your post brought to my thoughts. This is why a lot of times I post without quoting 'cause it can tend to confuse where I'm coming from...which was somewhere in the direction you were but not entirely.

 

[JimB]

Not true actually, even though the teaching did disappear around the time the Catholic Church came to power. But if you choose to strip yourself of this hope He gave us then its entirely your choice to make.

My hope, which is just as great as yours, is in the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ, not a supposed secret “rapture” of the church. I am “looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” (Titus 2.13).

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​

 

[Faulty]

My hope, which is just as great as yours, is in the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ, not a supposed secret “rapture” of the church. I am “looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” (Titus 2.13).

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​

Secret? There is and will be nothing secret about it?

Those among us who are church members rather than true believers will have many excuses at their disposal after the rapture. One will be, it wasn't the rapture because they are still here (as many churches will continue to function as normal), another will be the rapture is false because it's not to occur until the end. Whatever it'll take to alleviate their fears a short while at that time.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

I'm not going to debate the rapture with any of you here for a number of reasons.

1. This is not the debate forum.

2. I have noticed the upswing in false teaching over the last two years that has taken away the hope of many concerning the rapture. People who should know better have chosen to let their eyes be closed regarding this issue and no amount of 'debating' on my part with them will cause them to open their eyes again.

3. I simply have no desire to revive what we all already know just so those with their eyes closed can rely on each other to strengthen their resolve over this error, much like the universalism thread.

Like-minded rapture doctrine is simply not a requirement for anything. If you choose to live your life without it, that's your choice. My choice is to not participate in a strife-building argument over it.

Hi FS,

You have a tender heart and are a good person.

Ok and I fully understand - debates is not where it's at anyway. God hates strife and debate.

So can you learn from SP in what she wrote to you, she only said it to make you wiser, not the worse?

Thank you for your time and care.

 

[JimB]

Hi FS,

You have a tender heart and are a good person.

Ok and I fully understand - debates is not where it's at anyway. God hates strife and debate.

*****

Well, that’s debatable.

Acts 9:29
He debated with some Greek-speaking Jews, but they tried to murder him.

Acts 17:18
He also had a debate with some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers. When he told them about Jesus and his resurrection, they said, “What’s this babbler trying to say with these strange ideas he’s picked up?” Others said, “He seems to be preaching about some foreign gods.”

Acts 18:28
He refuted the Jews with powerful arguments in public debate. Using the Scriptures, he explained to them that Jesus was the Messiah.
​

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​

 

[ANM29]

One problem is the teaching down the line in the churches that WE are going to go through something SO SEVERE that the POWER that raised Christ from the dead ( that lives in us ) is not ENOUGH to keep us on this earth, so God has to get us out of here.

We have been taught with false doctrines that being a Christian ( especially in the west, but we see countless has died because of their faith and still are in the world today...oh, but not us in the west and in the 'good' countries, God is going to spare US from any tribulation in life for some reason though...) is about ONLY about being 'comfty, financially fat, physically perfectly healed, etc, etc, etc and we are not 'meant' to go through anything 'BAD'. It is an 'escapism' doctrine which is why Christians are living in FEAR and ready to be RAPTURED OUT...that does not sound like anything close to what God intends for us who are suppose to be the LIGHT OF THE WORLD...But, there is a people who will stand when all others fall..Because all who are professing Christ, does not know Christ and it is going to be seen eventually the difference in the tears and wheats.

There is about to come a time on earth where there will be many Christians who have known very little anything as regards to 'suffering' will be given the choice and MANY WILL FALL AWAY for the sake of COMFORT..and unfortunately, it will be those who have been 'systemized' and 'religiousized' and have never come to an understanding of what is really going on down here on this earth and have not taken God seriously or DIEING to themselves or even understanding what it means in the eyes of God. When they realize that God is not going to rapture them out of anything here and are CALLED TO STAND TO THE END and see the power of God manifesting through those that God has called out for these end days, many STILL will fall away because of "fear' and 'comfort'.

It is not going to be a pretty picture, but it is just a part of what has ALREADY been prophesied in scripture.

 

[IowaPastor]

If the rapture would happen tomorrow, I'd live today for Jesus. If I were a gardener, I'd plant a garden or perhaps even a tree.

As for today, I just want to get closer and closer to my Lord and Savior. I want Him to increase in me as I decrease.

Be Blessed

 

[JimB]

If the rapture would happen tomorrow, I'd live today for Jesus. If I were a gardener, I'd plant a garden or perhaps even a tree.

As for today, I just want to get closer and closer to my Lord and Savior. I want Him to increase in me as I decrease.

Be Blessed

Reminds me of the story of St. Francis who was hoeing his garden one afternoon when someone came to him and said "Francis what would you be doing if you knew for certain that Christ is going to return tomorrow?”

To which St. Francis said, "I would be hoeing my garden."

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​

 

[lismore]

One problem is the teaching down the line in the churches that WE are going to go through something SO SEVERE that the POWER that raised Christ from the dead ( that lives in us ) is not ENOUGH to keep us on this earth, so God has to get us out of here.

Hello There

I dont think we can afford to become prideful and arrogant, taking things for granted.

Remember the seven churches of Asia minor in the book of Revelation? They were proud and felt secure but if you go round those seven churches now: Ephesus, Thyatira, Smyrna, Laodociea etc you will find that tribulation came to them and all the believers in those churches converted to Islam in a short space of time. Tribulation cracked them like a peanut. You wont find a church or a believer in Thyatira today. The power that raised Jesus from the dead didnt stop them denying Christ!! Why was the power not enough to keep those believers?

Sometimes persecution and tribulation melts the church like a chocolate teapot. I heard one speaker from Africa share about parents who had denied Christ when muslims threatened to put their baby in the microwave to kill it.

What the bible talks about is violence, earthquakes etc in the tribulation, but also economic and social pressure. Get the mark or you cant buy or sell. If the church did go through the tribulation, which I dont believe it would, few believers would be coming out the other side as believers. The Chinese church perhaps grows under persecution because the enemy is so obvious, what when the enemy is more subtle? Deception will come in the tribulation!! An angel of light. Look at the medieval church. How many believers swallowed indulgences for so many years? Yes, a similar deception could be swallowed today. If God wants heaven empty he will put the church through the great tribulation.

How many folks can spot a subtle deception? What if the ungodly leaders during the tribulation hour are gasp Christian leaders. Big pastors or popes teaching deception. How much of the church will stand for righteousness? I'll tell you, two or three, like today. Not many at all. Heaven would be echoingly empty. Just like the muslims could convert the Christians of Asia Minor quickly through a combination of pressure, threats and deception, so would the vast majority of today's church fall if put through the tribulation.


Besides you didnt answer the earlier question about Lot. The angels couldnt bring judgement on Soddom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were evacuated. So whats changed? How can God strike down a third of the population in the great tribulation with the church still in the population?

God Bless You!

 

[psalms 91]

Hello There

I dont think we can afford to become prideful and arrogant, taking things for granted.

Remember the seven churches of Asia minor in the book of Revelation? They were proud and felt secure but if you go round those seven churches now: Ephesus, Thyatira, Smyrna, Laodociea etc you will find that tribulation came to them and all the believers in those churches converted to Islam in a short space of time. Tribulation cracked them like a peanut. You wont find a church or a believer in Thyatira today. The power that raised Jesus from the dead didnt stop them denying Christ!!

Sometimes persecution and tribulation strengthens the church, sometimes it melts the church like a chocolate teapot. I heard one speaker from Africa share about parents who had denied Christ when muslims threatened to put their baby in the microwave to kill it.

What the bible talks about is violence, earthquakes etc in the tribulation, but also economic and social pressure. Get the mark or you cant buy or sell. If the church did go through the tribulation, which I dont believe it would, few believers would be coming out the other side as believers. The Chinese church perhaps grows under persecution because the enemy is so obvious, what when the enemy is more subtle? Deception will come in the tribulation!! An angel of light. Look at the medieval church. How many believers swallowed indulgences for so many years? Yes, a similar deception could be swallowed today. If God wants heaven empty he will put the church through the great tribulation.

Besides you didnt answer the earlier question about Lot. The angels couldnt bring judgement on Soddom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were evacuated. So whats changed?

God Bless You!

Good post Lis, it is not about Gods power but rather the fulfillment of prophecy in the bible. We know the beginning and the end and satan knows i9t as well. The powers of darkness are allowed to control and rule this world for a time, Gods messengers will be here as well but that time is set aside for martyrs and for evil. It is but a set time and then Jesus returns. Prophecy will come to pass.

 

[lismore]

Maybe we should live for God because we love Him.

>_>

Yes, but what's wrong with desiring to be with the person you love? The bible says:

2 Timothy 4:8
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Longed for his appearing!!!

I think we shouldnt judge people who long for the rapture. I look forward to the rapture. We cant walk in another person's shoes, others have been given a heavier load than us.

I know at least one believer, the thought of an imminent rapture is the only thing keeping him alive. I mean that literally, he told me more than once he could just lay down and die. His load has been very heavy indeed. A person with a light(er) load cannot understand someone with a heavier load.

 

[IowaPastor]

Reminds me of the story of St. Francis who was hoeing his garden one afternoon when someone came to him and said "Francis what would you be doing if you knew for certain that Christ is going to return tomorrow?”

To which St. Francis said, "I would be hoeing my garden."

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​

Yes, I was thinking of that very quote when I typed my response. I just know it's important to live life but live it in such a way that I'm ready when Jesus does return or when I die.

Blessings

 

[Ajax 777]

Yes, but what's wrong with desiring to be with the person you love? The bible says:

2 Timothy 4:8
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Longed for his appearing!!!

I think we shouldnt judge people who long for the rapture. I look forward to the rapture. We cant walk in another person's shoes, others have been given a heavier load than us.

I know at least one believer, the thought of an imminent rapture is the only thing keeping him alive. I mean that literally, he told me more than once he could just lay down and die. His load has been very heavy indeed. A person with a light(er) load cannot understand someone with a heavier load.

AMEN
AMEN
AMEN

 

[ANM29]

Hello There

I dont think we can afford to become prideful and arrogant, taking things for granted.

Remember the seven churches of Asia minor in the book of Revelation? They were proud and felt secure but if you go round those seven churches now: Ephesus, Thyatira, Smyrna, Laodociea etc you will find that tribulation came to them and all the believers in those churches converted to Islam in a short space of time. Tribulation cracked them like a peanut. You wont find a church or a believer in Thyatira today. The power that raised Jesus from the dead didnt stop them denying Christ!! Why was the power not enough to keep those believers?

Sometimes persecution and tribulation melts the church like a chocolate teapot. I heard one speaker from Africa share about parents who had denied Christ when muslims threatened to put their baby in the microwave to kill it.

What the bible talks about is violence, earthquakes etc in the tribulation, but also economic and social pressure. Get the mark or you cant buy or sell. If the church did go through the tribulation, which I dont believe it would, few believers would be coming out the other side as believers. The Chinese church perhaps grows under persecution because the enemy is so obvious, what when the enemy is more subtle? Deception will come in the tribulation!! An angel of light. Look at the medieval church. How many believers swallowed indulgences for so many years? Yes, a similar deception could be swallowed today. If God wants heaven empty he will put the church through the great tribulation.

How many folks can spot a subtle deception? What if the ungodly leaders during the tribulation hour are gasp Christian leaders. Big pastors or popes teaching deception. How much of the church will stand for righteousness? I'll tell you, two or three, like today. Not many at all. Heaven would be echoingly empty. Just like the muslims could convert the Christians of Asia Minor quickly through a combination of pressure, threats and deception, so would the vast majority of today's church fall if put through the tribulation.


Besides you didnt answer the earlier question about Lot. The angels couldnt bring judgement on Soddom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were evacuated. So whats changed? How can God strike down a third of the population in the great tribulation with the church still in the population?

God Bless You!

Sorry you are taking what I say as arrogance, but that is not my problem and I will spend no time trying to convince you otherwise.

We apparently are not on the same page with the rapture, and that is cool. The issue is too much to even get into now, which I honestly have no desire to even discuss in detail of this rapture issue. I don't believe in it, it is a Escapism doctrine.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to escape life, don't we all want out of here every now and then?...this is so far from that, and like I said not even going there.

I did not see any question about Lot btw..I don't even remember seeing a post from you..I don't read every single post, lately I am skimming through here.

I will say this about judgement. Judgement begins in the house of the Lord.

Have a good day dear..

 

[Faulty]

I know at least one believer, the thought of an imminent rapture is the only thing keeping him alive. I mean that literally, he told me more than once he could just lay down and die. His load has been very heavy indeed. A person with a light(er) load cannot understand someone with a heavier load.

That guy needs a new perspective. Sounds very selfish indeed as he has no business carrying his own burden around.

The rapture is not now, nor ever has been about escaping life or escaping persecutions. In fact, we as Christians were promised we would encounter persecutions.

The rapture is about being spared from enduring the judgements of God, not the judgements of men. Even Isaiah 57:1 illustrates this is the way God works.

 

[lismore]

That guy needs a new perspective. Sounds very selfish indeed as he has no business carrying his own burden around.

The rapture is not now, nor ever has been about escaping life or escaping persecutions. In fact, we as Christians were promised we would encounter persecutions.

The rapture is about being spared from enduring the judgements of God, not the judgements of men. Even Isaiah 57:1 illustrates this is the way God works.

Hello There

Take my word on it my friend has had more in his life than he can bear. He has been mocked and bullied {even by believers} because of his appearance. I think he wanted to be married but because of his appearance no person would marry him. He is aged now and has no family and very few close friends. He has spent Christmas/ New Year alone for many years, two weeks alone at the festive period. The first year I met him he asked every single person in his church to take him in on Christmas day, all pleasantly said 'unable'. The last two years some unchurched Christians and myself have been befriending him. He has told me if he didnt have the thought of seeing the Lord's return he would no be able to carry on with his rejected life.

Some people carry a heavier load than others. We shouldnt judge them. Because of hte churches dysfunction, some people also carry that load alone for a time.

The bible says:

Psalm 34:19
A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all.

'From' them all. Not through them all.

People who have had it easy perhaps feel able to glide through tribulation. The Great Tribulation will be awful.

 

[lismore]

Sorry you are taking what I say as arrogance, but that is not my problem and I will spend no time trying to convince you otherwise.

We apparently are not on the same page with the rapture, and that is cool. The issue is too much to even get into now, which I honestly have no desire to even discuss in detail of this rapture issue. I don't believe in it, it is a Escapism doctrine.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to escape life, don't we all want out of here every now and then?...this is so far from that, and like I said not even going there.

I did not see any question about Lot btw..I don't even remember seeing a post from you..I don't read every single post, lately I am skimming through here.

I will say this about judgement. Judgement begins in the house of the Lord.

Have a good day dear..

Hello There

Here was my comment about Lot for your info:
Genesis 19:22
But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it." (That is why the town was called Zoar. )

The angel could not pour out judgement on Soddom until the believers were safe away.

Im sorry but maybe I did mis-read what you said. If the seven churches of Asia Minor all folded under Tribulation, I dont see whats so special about today's churches that they could merrily pass through much worse tribulation. Satan is a shrewd devil, subtle, unexpected attacks. When we think we can stand then we are vulnerable to fall.

God will not put believers through more than they can bear and the great tribulation by definition is more than can be borne. Thats the point of it.

We as believers have the wonderful opportunity to test and judge ourselves and repent from sins now! The Holy SPirit convicts us and makes us miserable when we sin. Catching the plague or being melted in the tribulation wont give us anything extra.

The bible says:
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. {Rev 3:10}

Its says 'from', not 'through'. In greek 'Ek' not 'dia'. We are being kept from the tribulation, not going through it.


Bless You

 

[ANM29]

Hello There

Here was my comment about Lot for your info:
Genesis 19:22
But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it." (That is why the town was called Zoar. )

The angel could not pour out judgement on Soddom until the believers were safe away.

Im sorry but maybe I did mis-read what you said. If the seven churches of Asia Minor all folded under Tribulation, I dont see whats so special about today's churches that they could merrily pass through much worse tribulation. Satan is a shrewd devil, subtle, unexpected attacks. When we think we can stand then we are vulnerable to fall.

God will not put believers through more than they can bear and the great tribulation by definition is more than can be borne. Thats the point of it.

We as believers have the wonderful opportunity to test and judge ourselves and repent from sins now! The Holy SPirit convicts us and makes us miserable when we sin. Catching the plague or being melted in the tribulation wont give us anything extra.

The bible says:
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. {Rev 3:10}

Its says 'from', not 'through'. In greek 'Ek' not 'dia'. We are being kept from the tribulation, not going through it.


Bless You

We shall see won't we....Yes, it says 'from' the hour of trial...not I am going to come and take you out of it...He can keep us from it, while we are actually still 'in' it. ..We are in the world, but not of it. Don't believe in the rapture theory at all...I use to, btw...

We will be here...For whatever is going to go down.