What if God just came out of Nothing ? Would that lessen his Authority ?

[perplexed]

I have many Christians talk about the concept of God's total moral Authority being related to fact that he was not caused by anything else.
This simply never makes sense to me. To help me understand can people try to answer the following question.

Obviously, If you see a physical object you are crazy to think it just appeared out of nothing a few days ago.
But suppose God appeared out of a total Godless void because that just a property of Godless total voids, A Godless total void does not have to follow the same rules as physical objects in our universe.
If God then created the physical universe and all good after springing out of nothing would he have to bother to change the nature of his origins to give himself total moral Authority?

 

[disciple Clint]

I have many Christians talk about the concept of God's total moral Authority being related to fact that he was not caused by anything else.
This simply never makes sense to me. To help me understand can people try to answer the following question.

Obviously, If you see a physical object you are crazy to think it just appeared out of nothing a few days ago.
But suppose God appeared out of a total Godless void because that just a property of Godless total voids, A Godless total void does not have to follow the same rules as physical objects in our universe.
If God then created the physical universe and all good after springing out of nothing would he have to bother to change the nature of his origins to give himself total moral Authority?

Who made that void, there is only one uncaused cause. God has always existed He did not spring out of anything.

 

[perplexed]

Who made that void, there is only one uncaused cause. God has always existed He did not spring out of anything.

What if God comes from a universe where there are uncaused causes ?

 

[disciple Clint]

What if God comes from a universe where there are uncaused causes ?

That is a logical contradiction.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I have many Christians talk about the concept of God's total moral Authority being related to fact that he was not caused by anything else.
This simply never makes sense to me. To help me understand can people try to answer the following question.

Obviously, If you see a physical object you are crazy to think it just appeared out of nothing a few days ago.
But suppose God appeared out of a total Godless void because that just a property of Godless total voids, A Godless total void does not have to follow the same rules as physical objects in our universe.
If God then created the physical universe and all good after springing out of nothing would he have to bother to change the nature of his origins to give himself total moral Authority?

In the beginning, there was only HaShem...there can not be a void without there being HaShem...Ein Sof

 

[Blade]

He GOD had no beginning He has always been. "From forever in the past to forever in the future, you are God.” The beginning God created the heaven and the earth. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

 

[perplexed]

That is a logical contradiction.

Suppose you got to heaven and God told you he did just come out of nothing and this is the only case were logic does not apply, Would this information alone change any of your beliefs about morality.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I have many Christians talk about the concept of God's total moral Authority being related to fact that he was not caused by anything else.
This simply never makes sense to me. To help me understand can people try to answer the following question.

Obviously, If you see a physical object you are crazy to think it just appeared out of nothing a few days ago.
But suppose God appeared out of a total Godless void because that just a property of Godless total voids, A Godless total void does not have to follow the same rules as physical objects in our universe.
If God then created the physical universe and all good after springing out of nothing would he have to bother to change the nature of his origins to give himself total moral Authority?

God is described as "without beginning or end". This is not something we can understand by trying to fit Him into a physical environment whether it be void or filled. "Nature of origins" are used to describe creation, not the Creator. But then He came as flesh, Jesus Christ of Nazareth , to reveal Himself fully to His creation and to proclaim all authority in heaven and on earth. So He did let us know.
Blessings

Matthew 28
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

I have [heard] many Christians talk about the concept of God's total moral authority being related to fact that he was not caused by anything else. This simply never makes sense to me.

God's moral authority resides in the fact that mankind was created in his image in covenantal relationship to him. This is the Creator–creature distinction so fundamental to Christian theology. God's knowledge is infinite, perfect, complete, original or archetypal. Since moral knowledge and understanding cannot be shared univocally (identically) between Creator and creature—for he is infinite and we are not—what humans know and understand must be ectypal, analogical, derivative, a copy of the original in God revealed to us by him, accommodated to our finite capacities. Our knowledge and understanding must always be finite, imperfect, and incomplete, forever dependent on God’s infinite, perfect, and complete knowledge. This is the basis of his moral authority. Whether or not you agree with this, surely it makes sense.

Suppose God appeared out of a total godless void because that's just a property of godless total voids.

But it would be crazy to think some physical object appeared out of nothing a few days ago?

Perhaps we're not talking about the same God. The God of Christian theology is eternal and sef-existent being. Having been birthed from a total void, the deity in your supposition is neither of those things.

The God of Christianity alone, the only true God, is our sovereign moral authority. That is the argument made by Christians (i.e., we don't defend strange gods).

 

[perplexed]

God's knowledge is infinite, perfect, complete, original or archetypal. Since moral knowledge and understanding cannot be shared univocally (identically) between Creator and creature—for he is infinite and we are not—what humans know and understand must be ectypal, analogical, derivative, a copy of the original in God revealed to us by him, accommodated to our finite capacities. Our knowledge and understanding must always be finite, imperfect, and incomplete, forever dependent on God’s infinite, perfect, and complete knowledge. This is the basis of his moral authority. Whether or not you agree with this, surely it makes sense.

I understand that , what I don't understand is why people talk about God being self existent, How are God's origins relevant ?

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

How are God's origins relevant?

It's sort of difficult to answer that question, for it presupposes something that is debatable or unacceptable to Christian orthodoxy—namely, that God has an origin—something to which I'd be committed if I gave a direct answer. Even if I answered that God's origins are not relevant, that would be a tacit admission that he had an origin—but he does not. God is necessary being, eternal and self-existent, thus he has no beginning (i.e., no origin).

I understand that. What I don't understand is why people talk about God being self-existent.

As suggested in my answer to you, it's probably because they're trying to articulate this fundamental Creator–creature distinction, tying God's moral authority to the fact that mankind was created in his image in covenantal relationship to him. I don't know who those people were nor what they said, so I can only guess. But there it is.

 

[perplexed]

People are not explaining what I want them to explain


I understand that Christians think an important question is
"Where do I come from and why am I here?"
and the important answer is
"
1) God is perfect,
2) Man is created in God's image .
"
I also understand that they think answer incomplete because it begs the additional question "but where does come from "so the improved better answer is
"
1) God is perfect,
2) Man is created in God's image .
3) God is self existent
"

What I don't understand is why Christians bring up the fact that God is self existent when discussing why God has
moral authority, for that question why don't they just say
"
1) God is perfect
2) Man is created in God's image .
"

 

[eleos1954]

I have many Christians talk about the concept of God's total moral Authority being related to fact that he was not caused by anything else.
This simply never makes sense to me. To help me understand can people try to answer the following question.

Obviously, If you see a physical object you are crazy to think it just appeared out of nothing a few days ago.
But suppose God appeared out of a total Godless void because that just a property of Godless total voids, A Godless total void does not have to follow the same rules as physical objects in our universe.
If God then created the physical universe and all good after springing out of nothing would he have to bother to change the nature of his origins to give himself total moral Authority?

God IS the creator of everything He does have total authority because He's the creator. He did create all His intelligent beings with freedom of choice to love Him or not ..... True love has to be a choice.

He came to earth in the form of a man .... and look what happened .... few believed who He was.

If God did appear many would not believe that He was in fact God. Just as those in days of old did."

God didn't "spring out of nothing ... He has always been.

 

[perplexed]

God IS the creator of everything He does have total authority because He's the creator. He did create all His intelligent beings with freedom of choice to love Him or not ..... True love has to be a choice.

As I always say, I don't understand this. Loving the source of love is clearly the correct choice, it still would be the correct choice if the source of love just appeared out of nothing.

 

[eleos1954]

As I always say, I don't understand this. Loving the source of love is clearly the correct choice, it still would be the correct choice if the source of love just appeared out of nothing.

True ... but am just saying not many would believe it was truly God no matter how He appeared. I wouldn't believe it because His word is quite clear how it takes place and what happens when it takes place.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

What I don't understand is why Christians bring up the fact that God is self existent when discussing why God has
moral authority

Because they are probably trying (but struggling) to tie "God's moral authority to the fact that mankind was created in his image in covenantal relationship to him." I'm sorry but that's the answer.

 

[dzheremi]

How would God just come out of nothing? Time itself is a created thing, so presupposing that there was nothing 'before' God, and then God 'just came out' of it is just as nonsensical as presupposing that there was always something. I don't see how this question is any more well-formed than the one you're trying to get away from, OP.

 

[IoanC]

There are ideas that God is subjective. Meaning God is a Living Supra- Existence that has what He likes, not what should be done. God cannot be forced to be an authority and help people. God values His freedom and happiness, first, just like any other person.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I have many Christians talk about the concept of God's total moral Authority being related to fact that he was not caused by anything else.
This simply never makes sense to me. To help me understand can people try to answer the following question.

Obviously, If you see a physical object you are crazy to think it just appeared out of nothing a few days ago.
But suppose God appeared out of a total Godless void because that just a property of Godless total voids, A Godless total void does not have to follow the same rules as physical objects in our universe.
If God then created the physical universe and all good after springing out of nothing would he have to bother to change the nature of his origins to give himself total moral Authority?

If God exists, and if He specifically exists in a way that is reflected in the Bible, then this excludes these questions you're posing. Otherwise, all you're doing is making up inquiries that don't 'get at' the metaphysical or theological problem(s). In other words, either God is Eternal, Almighty, All-knowing, and the Creator, or He isn't.

If He is, then His moral authority follows in that He is the Creator of our social makeup and thereby knows how it works best, and this will be the case whether or not we finite creatures also recognize this as the case.

 

[perplexed]

If He is, then His moral authority follows in that He is the Creator of our social makeup and thereby knows how it works best, and this will be the case whether or not we finite creatures also recognize this as the case.

??? You seem to be suggesting God learnt everything about humans while creating the humans. I would argue an eternal all knowing entity does not learn anything new from the act of creation