What I don't understand about the arguement for Abortion.

[mathetes123]

As I have said before; it is not yet fully a child. It is a fetus. If you had read some detailed scientific research on abortion (not human biology), then you would realise this. A fetus does not even have a body. It is nothing but a fertalised egg. Is sperm human? No. It is unfertalised, but by your standards, considering that it is a part of the makeup of human biology, then wasting that through masturbation would disgraceful, too. Anyway, I digress. A woman has the right to rid her womb of a fertalised egg. It is not yet a child. Please, have a look at some proper scientific research.

Calling the unborn baby a fetus does not make it any less human.

 

[SaraJarvis]

Calling the unborn baby a fetus does not make it any less human.

It does. It is a fetus. It is not a baby. I’m not saying that it isn’t made up of human cells; but it is NOT a baby. It is an egg. I do wish that you would try and look at more of my argument, instead of simply nit-picking. Is an egg a chicken? No.

 

[mathetes123]

It does. It is a fetus. It is not a baby. I’m not saying that it isn’t made up of human cells; but it is NOT a baby. It is an egg. I do wish that you would try and look at more of my argument, instead of simply nit-picking. Is an egg a chicken? No.

You do understand that a fetus is not just an egg, don't you? The fetus develops after conception and has all the genetic makeup at conception as at birth. It is fully human. If you want to make distinctions in development, you will have to concede that a child up to adulthood, who would not be fully developed, is also fair game for termination.

 

[SaraJarvis]

You do understand that a fetus is not just an egg, don't you? The fetus develops after conception and has all the genetic makeup at conception as at birth. It is fully human. If you want to make distinctions in development, you will have to concede that a child up to adulthood, who would not be fully developed, is also fair game for termination.

Of course I do; this is why I said it has been fertilised. I am not saying that it does not have human qualities; I keep expressing this. However, it is not formed in even the shape of a child. It is a tiny thing; about as big as a British 50p. Sorry, but I’m not giving up my life for something the size of a 50p. Why is it impossible for you to recognise the difference between a fetus and a child? Your argument is invalid. A fetus cannot think. It does not even have nerve endings enough to feel pain. It is undeveloped. Any scientific, medical article on abortion would state this. You have obviously not done your research.

 

[SharonL]

This glob of tissue has a heartbeat after 9 days.

 

[SaraJarvis]

This glob of tissue has a heartbeat after 9 days.

Yes, obviously. This is why the first pill administered is to stop the heart humanely. It doesn’t make it any more child-like. It is still a fetus.
By the way; you’re the one who keeps calling it a “glob of tissue”, as though anyone else has said that.

 

[mathetes123]

Of course I do; this is why I said it has been fertilised. I am not saying that it does not have human qualities; I keep expressing this. However, it is not formed in even the shape of a child. It is a tiny thing; about as big as a British 50p. Sorry, but I’m not giving up my life for something the size of a 50p. Why is it impossible for you to recognise the difference between a fetus and a child? Your argument is invalid. A fetus cannot think. It does not even have nerve endings enough to feel pain. It is undeveloped. Any scientific, medical article on abortion would state this. You have obviously not done your research.

So if I do not agree with abortion, it is only because I have not done the scientific research. Science answers the question of "how?", but does not answer the question of "should we?". For that you must rely on a moral standard to answer the question. If there is no God, your opinion on matters of morality is no more valid than mine, because morality would then be subjective. If there is a God, however, then there are moral laws by which we are expected to live, which apply equally to each of us regardless of belief and which, if violated, have consequences.

 

[SaraJarvis]

So if I do not agree with abortion, it is only because I have not done the scientific research. Science answers the question of "how?", but does not answer the question of "should we?". For that you must rely on a moral standard to answer the question. If there is no God, your opinion on matters of morality is no more valid than mine, because morality would then be subjective. If there is a God, however, then there are moral laws by which we are expected to live, which apply equally to each of us regardless of belief and which, if violated, have consequences.

That is not what I said. What I said is that your opinions on abortion are blurred, because you have no evidence of facts. The typical right-wing fundamentalist belief, is that abortion is barbaric. Not true. It is far more humane than the death penalty. It is done when the fetus is at an age where pain is non-existent. Anything later is done with very good reason. I’m pretty sure that the mother goes through more pain of a 6 hour induced labour, than a pill that stops the fetus’ heart (speaking hypothetically, as the fetus CANNOT feel pain, but you catch my drift.).

The question of “should we” is subjective. It is not a “should we” question; it is a “should I” question. It is entirely up to the woman. If any man had said “no you’re not” to me, then I’d have laughed in his face and hurried along to the clinic. Why should someone else have any say in someone else’s personal decision?

 

[Trogool]

This glob of tissue has a heartbeat after 9 days.

So?

 

[TomZzyzx]

That is not what I said. What I said is that your opinions on abortion are blurred, because you have no evidence of facts. The typical right-wing fundamentalist belief, is that abortion is barbaric. Not true. It is far more humane than the death penalty. It is done when the fetus is at an age where pain is non-existent. Anything later is done with very good reason. I’m pretty sure that the mother goes through more pain of a 6 hour induced labour, than a pill that stops the fetus’ heart (speaking hypothetically, as the fetus CANNOT feel pain, but you catch my drift.).

The question of “should we” is subjective. It is not a “should we” question; it is a “should I” question. It is entirely up to the woman. If any man had said “no you’re not” to me, then I’d have laughed in his face and hurried along to the clinic. Why should someone else have any say in someone else’s personal decision?

It's not a matter of "pain", it's a matter of killing an innocent human being.

 

[SaraJarvis]

It isn't a human being though. It is a fetus. I really think you need to educate yourself in greater detail, before you go about using words like "killing" and "murder".

"Abortion is defined as the termination of pregnancy, by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus or embryo, prior to viability". Note the wording.


You don't agree with it, fine. But you have no right to stop someone who isn't a Christian (or is just pro-abortion) from going ahead with the process. I don't believe in God, so why would I abide by his laws?

 

[mathetes123]

It isn't a human being though. It is a fetus. I really think you need to educate yourself in greater detail, before you go about using words like "killing" and "murder".

"Abortion is defined as the termination of pregnancy, by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus or embryo, prior to viability". Note the wording.

You don't agree with it, fine. But you have no right to stop someone who isn't a Christian (or is just pro-abortion) from going ahead with the process. I don't believe in God, so why would I abide by his laws?

The bible says though shalt not steal. Because prohibitions against theft are biblical, should people who don't believe in God be exempt from laws prohibiting theft?

 

[SaraJarvis]

Again, that is utterly ridiculous. Theft affects other people. Abortion only affects a fetus. Do you honestly believe that you have any right at all to tell me, or any other woman, what to do with her own body? Oh, the joys of a patriarchal society. It even succeeds in brainwashing some of the female population.

The Bible also says don't eat shrimp, and advertises slavery. Do you avoid seafood, and keep a slave? Don't think so, sweetie. Selective reading.

 

[Trogool]

The bible says though shalt not steal. Because prohibitions against theft are biblical, should people who don't believe in God be exempt from laws prohibiting theft?

Yay!

 

[mathetes123]

Yay!

There is another commandment which says that thou shalt not commit murder.

 

[SaraJarvis]

Yes, of a human being. I think I've established, on countless occasions, that a fetus isn't a living, breathing, thinking human. I really love how you avoid the main points I make in my posts, and just keep repeating the same thing! It's like speaking to a brick wall. I'd expect more of someone with such staunch beliefs! More eloquent opinions, at least!

Oh, and you've totally ignored my questions, yet again.

 

[mathetes123]

Yes, of a human being. I think I've established, on countless occasions, that a fetus isn't a living, breathing, thinking human. I really love how you avoid the main points I make in my posts, and just keep repeating the same thing! It's like speaking to a brick wall. I'd expect more of someone with such staunch beliefs! More eloquent opinions, at least!

Oh, and you've totally ignored my questions, yet again.

The only thing you have established is that a "fetus" (unborn baby) is not fully developed, not that it isn't human. Our DNA establishes our humanity and a fetus has the same genetic makeup as the fully developed adult. As I have stated before, if development is the standard, then you will have to concede that any child under 21 is fair game for termination by the parent for whatever reason, including the convenience of the parent.

Once again, what question are you trying to create the perception that I am avoiding?

 

[SaraJarvis]

You keep telling me that. However, it is just regurgitating the same thing; I have established that, although it is made of human DNA, it is a fetus, an embryo. It is TINY. It does not even bear resemblance to a baby. Don't be so foolish to try to compare the aborting of a fetus to the murder of a child.

The question that you did not answer was this: Do you honestly believe that you have any right at all to tell me, or any other woman, what to do with her own body?

 

[mathetes123]

You keep telling me that. However, it is just regurgitating the same thing; I have established that, although it is made of human DNA, it is a fetus, an embryo. It is TINY. It does not even bear resemblance to a baby. Don't be so foolish to try to compare the aborting of a fetus to the murder of a child.

The question that you did not answer was this: Do you honestly believe that you have any right at all to tell me, or any other woman, what to do with her own body?

I don't believe I have the right to authorize the taking of an innocent life, especially the weakest among us who cannot defend themselves. If that means denying a woman the right to take a life, then, yes I believe I have the right to support any legislation which would bring an end to this genocide that has killed 10s of millions of the unborn.

 

[Trogool]

I don't believe I have the right to authorize the taking of an innocent life, especially the weakest among us who cannot defend themselves.

Precisely. Your authority is neither required nor desired in women's health issues.

the Song of Eärendil (multi-lingo subtitles) - YouTube