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What I don't understand about the arguement for Abortion.

SaraJarvis

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You didn't directly answer my question. Do you believe that you have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body?

No one is asking you to authoritise the taking of a "life". You don't have to have any involvement in it. However, you don't have the right to authoritise what another person does with her own body.

A fetus is not scientifically recognised as a human being, just for the record. Hence why, in scientific terms, it is not classed as a baby until later months of pregnancy. Of course, you haven't read these scientific articles. Either that or you're just choosing to ignore them.
 
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mathetes123

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Trogool said:
Precisely. Your authority is neither required nor desired in women's health issues. :)

the Song of Eärendil (multi-lingo subtitles) - YouTube


I just love how pro-abortion people use innocent sounding words to describe what they are advocating. Abortion is not an issue of taking a life, but a woman's health issue. What percentage of abortions are due to health and what percentage for convenience? Another is calling an unborn baby a "fetus", as if dehumanizing the unborn makes the practice acceptable.

It is for the unborn child's health issues. Someone needs to advocate for the most innocent among us who cannot speak up for themselves.
 
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Trogool

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It is for the unborn child's health issues. Someone needs to advocate for the most innocent among us who cannot speak up for themselves.

*roll eyes*

Such a petty excuse for intruding legislation to control female sexuality and bothering in other people's business. Conservatives always claim they are for small government. This is a blatant example of how untrue that is.

[High Quality] Journey OST - Apotheosis - YouTube
 
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SaraJarvis

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I just love how pro-abortion people use innocent sounding words to describe what they are advocating. Abortion is not an issue of taking a life, but a woman's health issue. What percentage of abortions are due to health and what percentage for convenience? Another is calling an unborn baby a "fetus", as if dehumanizing the unborn makes the practice acceptable.

It is for the unborn child's health issues. Someone needs to advocate for the most innocent among us who cannot speak up for themselves.
Shouldn't the Mother be the one doing that? ;) It's her "child". Let her decide what needs to be done in terms of the "child's health issues". Her body, her womb, her life; her choice.

It isn't "innocent sounding words", treacle; it's the truth. It is a fetus. Read up on it. You might be shocked at just how much there is about pregnancy you don't know! It is a woman's health issue. There's morning sickness, the pregnancy itself, cravings, labour, birth, tearing, scarring, stretch-marks...shall I go on?
 
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SaraJarvis

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*roll eyes*

Such a petty excuse for intruding legislation to control female sexuality and bothering in other people's business. Conservatives always claim they are for small government. This is a blatant example of how untrue that is.
Exactly, I 100% agree with you. Conservatives are only just starting to get their heads around the fact that women actually ENJOY sex!
 
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TomZzyzx

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SaraJarvis said:
It isn't a human being though. It is a fetus. I really think you need to educate yourself in greater detail, before you go about using words like "killing" and "murder". ;)

"Abortion is defined as the termination of pregnancy, by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a fetus or embryo, prior to viability". Note the wording.

You don't agree with it, fine. But you have no right to stop someone who isn't a Christian (or is just pro-abortion) from going ahead with the process. I don't believe in God, so why would I abide by his laws?

It is you who needs the education. Nobody argues that the unborn is not a human being any more. Science has already determined that the unborn is a human being. If it's not a human being, then what kind of being is it? Dog, monkey, elephant, maybe a fish? No! Human beings only produce other human beings.

I know exactly what an abortion is. It is the killing of an innocent human being.

I have every right in trying to save the lives of innocent human beings.

I didn't say anything about God or having to believe in God. You don't have believe in God to know that an abortion kills an innocent human being.
 
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SaraJarvis

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And that's BAD! They must be punished for it! :mad:
Oh, absolutely! Clap a scarlet letter on me, and send me to the pillory!

@TomZzyzx:
It is you who needs the education. Nobody argues that the unborn is not a human being any more. Science has already determined that the unborn is a human being. If it's not a human being, then what kind of being is it? Dog, monkey, elephant, maybe a fish? No! Human beings only produce other human beings.

I know exactly what an abortion is. It is the killing of an innocent human being.

I have every right in trying to save the lives of innocent human beings.

I didn't say anything about God or having to believe in God. You don't have believe in God to know that an abortion kills an innocent human being.
No, love; I have an education. However, there is a difference between a living, breathing baby with fingernails, eyes, etc. and a tiny little fetus no bigger than a 50 pence piece. Just ain't the same, I'm afraid!

You might want to think about that in better detail. Of course we produce other human beings. That's a very immature argument.
 
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TomZzyzx

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SaraJarvis said:
You didn't directly answer my question. Do you believe that you have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body?

No one is asking you to authoritise the taking of a "life". You don't have to have any involvement in it. However, you don't have the right to authoritise what another person does with her own body.

A fetus is not scientifically recognised as a human being, just for the record. Hence why, in scientific terms, it is not classed as a baby until later months of pregnancy. Of course, you haven't read these scientific articles. Either that or you're just choosing to ignore them.

If you think you have the right to kill an innocent human being, then I have the right to tell you what you are doing is wrong.

You don't know much about science. Like I have said before, science has already determined that the unborn is a 100 percent human being. Don't know what "record" your talking about.
 
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SaraJarvis

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Quick, lets reference the doctrine of original sin and do a check on whether fetuses are really "innocent human beings" :p

St. Augustine says no.
Hahaha, isn't it funny how that little bit of scripture always gets forgotten, when it comes to the abortion argument? ;)
 
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SaraJarvis

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If you think you have the right to kill an innocent human being, then I have the right to tell you what you are doing is wrong.

You don't know much about science. Like I have said before, science has already determined that the unborn is a 100 percent human being. Don't know what "record" your talking about.
Oh dear me. We're talking about different levels of development here, you see. Now, at conception (when the sperm and the egg come together), they create a fetus. It's a little thing that will grow into a baby. However, for the first three months or so, although it is of human DNA (that is, of a man and a woman), it actually bears no resemblance to a baby, and can't even feel, smell, see, touch, etc. This is a fetus.

:)

Anyway; I'm off to bed. I really look forward waking up and reading a science lecture from a male, who is not a doctor, and believes that a woman should give up her human rights because patriarchal society insists that it must be so!
 
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TomZzyzx

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SaraJarvis said:
Oh, absolutely! Clap a scarlet letter on me, and send me to the pillory!

@TomZzyzx:
No, love; I have an education. However, there is a difference between a living, breathing baby with fingernails, eyes, etc. and a tiny little fetus no bigger than a 50 pence piece. Just ain't the same, I'm afraid!

You might want to think about that in better detail. Of course we produce other human beings. That's a very immature argument.

Of corse there is a difference between the unborn and a baby. There is a difference between a baby and you. Does that mean that you're not a human being?

You say your educated and yet you don't know that the unborn is living?

That's why nobody argues that the unborn is not a human being, because it's immature.
 
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SaraJarvis

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Oh, God, I can't resist. One more before bed.

Of COURSE it is living, sweetie! It isn't a baby, though! What my point is, is that it hasn't reached full development, and it therefore is not inhumane to abort.

You keep repeating your opinion; it's ignorant. Abortion wouldn't be legal if it was murder.
 
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TomZzyzx

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SaraJarvis said:
Oh dear me. We're talking about different levels of development here, you see. Now, at conception (when the sperm and the egg come together), they create a fetus. It's a little thing that will grow into a baby. However, for the first three months or so, although it is of human DNA (that is, of a man and a woman), it actually bears no resemblance to a baby, and can't even feel, smell, see, touch, etc. This is a fetus.

:)

Anyway; I'm off to bed. I really look forward waking up and reading a science lecture from a male, who is not a doctor, and believes that a woman should give up her human rights because patriarchal society insists that it must be so!

I'm not arguing that there isn't a difference between a fetus and a baby. I am saying that the unborn is a human being at conception.

Development or lack of resemblance has nothing to do with whether the unborn is a human being or not.
 
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VolRaider

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Abstinence? Yes, of course it would! But as an atheist, why would I become celibate? Yes, of course there is adoption. But why should I put my body through torture to give my child to someone else?

I'm not saying that you have no opinion on women, what I'm saying is that you do not suffer pregnancy.

Nope, that's a load of rubbish, too. Their brains aren't sucked out. I had a medical abortion. It stops the fetus from functioning, and then it is expelled. Also; the fetus doesn’t HAVE skull at this point. I saw the fetus when it was expelled. It was a blob. That was it.

Nothing but a blob. Wow. 'Nuff said.:sigh:
 
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mathetes123

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SaraJarvis said:
Oh, God, I can't resist. One more before bed.

Of COURSE it is living, sweetie! It isn't a baby, though! What my point is, is that it hasn't reached full development, and it therefore is not inhumane to abort.

You keep repeating your opinion; it's ignorant. Abortion wouldn't be legal if it was murder.

A baby fresh out of the womb has not reached full development, yet you don't dAre advocate terminating its life?
 
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TomZzyzx

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SaraJarvis said:
Oh dear me. We're talking about different levels of development here, you see. Now, at conception (when the sperm and the egg come together), they create a fetus. It's a little thing that will grow into a baby. However, for the first three months or so, although it is of human DNA (that is, of a man and a woman), it actually bears no resemblance to a baby, and can't even feel, smell, see, touch, etc. This is a fetus.

:)

Anyway; I'm off to bed. I really look forward waking up and reading a science lecture from a male, who is not a doctor, and believes that a woman should give up her human rights because patriarchal society insists that it must be so!

You don't have to be a doctor to read a science book. The question should be whether or not you have actually read a science book.

But you believe that the unborn should give up it's human rights so you can justify killing it, don't you?
 
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Trogool

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Hahaha, isn't it funny how that little bit of scripture always gets forgotten, when it comes to the abortion argument? ;)

Oh yeah, trolololol

Confessions said:
Chapter 7. He Shows by Example that Even Infancy is Prone to Sin.

11. Hearken, O God! Alas for the sins of men! Man says this, and You have compassion on him; for You created him, but did not create the sin that is in him. Who brings to my remembrance the sin of my infancy? For before You none is free from sin, not even the infant which has lived but a day upon the earth. Who brings this to my remembrance? Does not each little one, in whom I behold that which I do not remember of myself? In what, then, did I sin? Is it that I cried for the breast? If I should now so cry—not indeed for the breast, but for the food suitable to my years—I should be most justly laughed at and rebuked. What I then did deserved rebuke; but as I could not understand those who rebuked me, neither custom nor reason suffered me to be rebuked. For as we grow we root out and cast from us such habits. I have not seen any one who is wise, when purging John 15:2 anything cast away the good. Or was it good, even for a time, to strive to get by crying that which, if given, would be hurtful— to be bitterly indignant that those who were free and its elders, and those to whom it owed its being, besides many others wiser than it, who would not give way to the nod of its good pleasure, were not subject unto it— to endeavour to harm, by struggling as much as it could, because those commands were not obeyed which only could have been obeyed to its hurt? Then, in the weakness of the infant's limbs, and not in its will, lies its innocency. I myself have seen and known an infant to be jealous though it could not speak. It became pale, and cast bitter looks on its foster-brother. Who is ignorant of this? Mothers and nurses tell us that they appease these things by I know not what remedies; and may this be taken for innocence, that when the fountain of milk is flowing fresh and abundant, one who has need should not be allowed to share it, though needing that nourishment to sustain life? Yet we look leniently on these things, not because they are not faults, nor because the faults are small, but because they will vanish as age increases. For although you may allow these things now, you could not bear them with equanimity if found in an older person.

12. You, therefore, O Lord my God, who gavest life to the infant, and a frame which, as we see, You have endowed with senses, compacted with limbs, beautified with form, and, for its general good and safety, hast introduced all vital energies— You command me to praise You for these things, to give thanks unto the Lord, and to sing praise unto Your name, O Most High; for You are a God omnipotent and good, though You had done nought but these things, which none other can do but You, who alone made all things, O Thou most fair, who made all things fair, and orders all according to Your law. This period, then, of my life, O Lord, of which I have no remembrance, which I believe in the word of others, and which I guess from other infants, it chagrins me— true though the guess be— to reckon in this life of mine which I lead in this world; inasmuch as, in the darkness of my forgetfulness, it is like to that which I passed in my mother's womb. But if I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me, where, I pray you, O my God, where, Lord, or when was I, Your servant, innocent? But behold, I pass by that time, for what have I to do with that, the memories of which I cannot recall?
 
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Trogool

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You don't have to be a doctor to read a science book. The question should be whether or not you have actually read a science book.

You do realize that science is published in journals, not books, right?

But you believe that the unborn should give up it's human rights so you can justify killing it, don't you?

Fetuses and embryos don't have human rights.
 
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