What I appreciate about Lutheranism

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I haven't decided to become Lutheran but I have come to appreciate some of their distinctives. Here are a few:

1. Justification.

It's universal. The forgiveness of sins (a new life) is made real by the life, death and Resurrection of Christ. This Gospel is apprehended through the means of grace and through the preaching of the word when it is received by faith. In other words, Christ didn't just make forgiveness possible.

2. Baptism, Confession, Eucharist

I know where to go to receive forgiveness. It's clear and not difficult. I just get up out of my pew and walk about 20 feet. I don't have to wonder how to have faith or charity or how to respond when the Pastor says, 'Cling to Jesus'. The Pastor points to the Eucharist; Jesus is right there. Faith is real not an intellectual assent or feeling.

3. Asceticism and Theological Sobriety

This may sound like a strange one. Afterall, didn't Luther eschew pietism? Well, yes, but pietism is not what I mean. Lutherans seem to have inherited both the university and the monastery, but in a way that foregoes any pretence of intellectualism and elitist ideals.

As a Penitent, I don't employ methods of self-discipline. I don't harm myself with ropes, whips, fasting, or labour. It is God himself who chastises and disciplines me everyday through his Law, while comforting me and sustaining me through the Gospel. I experience sin as a state, with penitence and punishment, all three are a way of life. One in which my soul is continually plunged into the darkness, pruned, sawed, twisted, and pulled by God himself.

4. Paradox and Mystery
Holding all things together, Lutherans believe in the Virgin Birth, God becoming Man, simultaneously just and sinner (new and old), Providence elects but doesn't damn, bread and wine & Body and Blood, Wrath and Love, ect.
All others that I have encountered seek to 'make sense' of these things. Whether it's someone trying to explain the scientific method by which a virgin could conceive, to stating that if God elects some to salvation, he must elect others to condemnation, to if the Eucharist is truly Christ, then it can't be bread and wine, or a justified sinner is legal fiction,he must actually appear righteous. In Lutheranism the Faith is simply asserted.

5. A Rejection of Enthusiasm and Mysticism

I appreciate that the Faith is not proven or boistered by the extra biblical stories of supernatural experiences, apparitions, 'gifts' like speaking in tongues, prophesies, stirring emotions and revivalism.

The End

 

[Till Schilling]

This is a good, thoughtful list.

may I suggest another point for your consideration:

The Lutheran theological system is more inline with Scriptures than any other system. It breathes the Scriptures through and through.

At the same time Lutheran practices are simply those of the Western catholic church of the 16th century. Minus what obviously contradicted Scriptures.

So, to my mind Lutheranism is quite humble in two ways or two directions. It does - unlike the Romans and the Orthodox, or also unlike the Calvinists - not go beyond Scriptures, nor does it ignore or even throw away everything that was passed on through the centuries and tries to “recreate” Christianity. As the Baptists/Evangelicals etc do.

 

[Tigger45]

Well said @Thatgirloncfforums, and to your item #3 (Sanctification) Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

This is a good, thoughtful list.

may I suggest another point for your consideration:

The Lutheran theological system is more inline with Scriptures than any other system. It breathes the Scriptures through and through.

At the same time Lutheran practices are simply those of the Western catholic church of the 16th century. Minus what obviously contradicted Scriptures.

So, to my mind Lutheranism is quite humble in two ways or two directions. It does - unlike the Romans and the Orthodox, or also unlike the Calvinists - not go beyond Scriptures, nor does it ignore or even throw away everything that was passed on through the centuries and tries to “recreate” Christianity. As the Baptists/Evangelicals etc do.

I have discovered as a Penitent, that holding fast to what Christ alone says is vital when confronted with the darkness in which it is only he and I. I can bring my suit before him based on what he said. I can hold him to his promises and question his words. But what am I to do with what he has clearly not said? There is so much theological noise between the various denominations. Am I to make him busy with all of that? I have done so before and the answer I receive in return is himself. I am so aware that all things are passing, that we will be in heaven soon enough and that this world exist for repentance sake. Even if I don't see him for another 41 years, I feel as though I will see him tomorrow. It's just a matter of praying for a stronger back in the meantime, but I am beginning to love my cross. Only Lutheranism has taught me to really die to myself and to suffer.

There are things that I am still unsure of. For instance, I know that the church fathers in certain instances taught 'faith alone', but I don't know if by 'faith' they have the Lutheran concept in mind, the Catholic/Orthodox, or something else entirely.

There is also the question of the invocation of the saints. I am totally on board with the idea that they ought not be invoked as persons possessing a special sort of merit. Practically speaking, that is a distraction from Christ for me. Meaning, it's a distraction I actually have experienced.

However, I am uncomfortable relating to the saints through their example because I am sensitive to moralism and to overt intellectualism. I'm more interested in having a grace-filled relationship with them. On that score, it is important to me to believe that the saints and my relatives are in fact aware of me, personally and that I may (not that I have to) seek their assistance. For me, this is part of the promise that I have in Christ that he has overcome death for and in them. In other words, such an acknowledgement is the way in which I experience and live out my belief in the Resurrection and it's implication for Christians. When I have denied the possibility of invocation, I have found that my appreciation of Christ's Resurrection falters closer to something more like intellectual assent and faith in something future, as barriers are erected.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Well said @Thatgirloncfforums, and to your item #3 (Sanctification) Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

Yes. It may be wrong to say but I hope my life doesn't last too much longer. I have always existed for someone else and I exist for Christ. Now, I exist to take care of my sister. Beyond that, I am preparing myself to go, even if I am still here for awhile. I recognize that my idea of ready may not be the same as my Lord's and that he may keep me here for many more years while he purges me of sin. I rest in him and take one day at a time therefore. With all this said, the reason why I am still discerning is because I want to take communion. If Pastor lets me, despite the few issues that I have with the Book of Concord, I might just stay in the Lutheran church for awhile. I can't say where I will be on my deathbed, only God knows, since my life is his story. All I know at present is that I wish to always remain on a journey toward him. I am concerned that my beliefs may be in error, that I may be diverting down a wayward path, but I place my hope and trust and love in him.

 

[Albion]

Yes. It may be wrong to say but I hope my life doesn't last too much longer. I have always existed for someone else and I exist for Christ. Now, I exist to take care of my sister. Beyond that, I am preparing myself to go, even if I am still here for awhile.

I recognize that my idea of ready may not be the same as my Lord's and that he may keep me here for many more years while he purges me of sin.

You've attempted to strike a balance and that's good, IMHO. However, it's highly doubtful that God is keeping you here long enough to purge you of sin.

There's a stronger argument to be made for seeing this life as an opportunity for you (and I) to advance God's work. That includes your care for your sister. It is godly service, and thank you for doing it.

 

[Till Schilling]

I am so aware that all things are passing, that we will be in heaven soon enough and that this world exist for repentance sake.

What do you mean by the world exists for repentance sake?

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Whatever God wills

You've attempted to strike a balance and that's good, IMHO. However, it's highly doubtful that God is keeping you here long enough to purge you of sin.

There's a stronger argument to be made for seeing this life as an opportunity for you (and I) to advance God's work. That includes your care for your sister. It is godly service, and thank you for doing it.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

What do you mean by the world exists for repentance sake?

We were removed from the garden. This world is dying and will be consumed by fire. The only thing left for us is to die too (ie, live in repentance) in the hope of the Resurrection.

 

[Till Schilling]

We were removed from the garden. This world is dying and will be consumed by fire. The only thing left for us is to die too (ie, live in repentance) in the hope of the Resurrection.

Sounds a bit dark and - excuse me - dramatic.

To die is surely NOT the only thing left for us. God created matter, he created the world, created humans. Yes, this world is impacted by the fall but there is still much beauty. And much human love and caring. Like your caring for your sister.

You speak/write of repentance a lot. Now there is nothing wrong with awareness of sin - I know I could do with more of it - nothing wrong with repenting. But there is something wrong with focusing on sin rather than on forgiveness and the forgiven life. Maybe your life is very dreary and painful at the moment. I do not know. If so I wish you well and maybe chances for enjoying this life more. Death will come inevitably. But maybe not just yet. In this sense I wish you a good 2022.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Thank you. But my life isn't dreary at all! I didn't mean the earth, which was created by God and is very good. I meant the world in contrast to the world to come. Dying isn't dark or dramatic because Jesus is there beside me in the tomb! There is peace with God in death because I am no longer at enmity with him.
But death to this world in anticipation of the world to come puts things in perspective for me. I don't try to save myself, my reputation, or society, I don't get stuck worrying about politics or millennialism/manifest destiny.

No one has to agree with me, but I do find Lutheranism beneficial in this regard.

Sounds a bit dark and - excuse me - dramatic.

To die is surely NOT the only thing left for us. God created matter, he created the world, created humans. Yes, this world is impacted by the fall but there is still much beauty. And much human love and caring. Like your caring for your sister.

You speak/write of repentance a lot. Now there is nothing wrong with awareness of sin - I know I could do with more of it - nothing wrong with repenting. But there is something wrong with focusing on sin rather than on forgiveness and the forgiven life. Maybe your life is very dreary and painful at the moment. I do not know. If so I wish you well and maybe chances for enjoying this life more. Death will come inevitably. But maybe not just yet. In this sense I wish you a good 2022.

 

[Till Schilling]

Thank you. But my life isn't dreary at all! I didn't mean the earth, which was created by God and is very good. I meant the world in contrast to the world to come. Dying isn't dark or dramatic because Jesus is there beside me in the tomb! There is peace with God in death because I am no longer at enmity with him.
But death to this world in anticipation of the world to come puts things in perspective for me. I don't try to save myself, my reputation, or society, I don't get stuck worrying about politics or millennialism/manifest destiny.

No one has to agree with me, but I do find Lutheranism beneficial in this regard.

Now, I might get this completely wrong and if so will hopefully be corrected. But to my mind believing in Christ in a Lutheran way frees us to live and do things. Precisely because we do not need to save ourselves. I dare say we do not need to worry about sins and our sinfulness. That has bern taken care of. The enmity between us and God HAS BEEN overcome in the death of Jesus. We are - in Christ - beloved adopted children of God. Even though we are still messed up and still evil.

And as the problem of sin has been taken care of, we are free to live and be there for others. Doing what little good we can do. And that might indeed mean doing politics! Why not? Or it might just mean doing our job well. Or raise children. Or look after elders or siblings. You are Christ to your sister.

Luther is quoted to have said that, knew he that the world will come to an end tomorrow, he would still plant an apple tree today. I find that remarkable.

Regarding our Lord Jesus himself we see him constantly meeting with people, eating with them, teaching them and healing them. Yes, Jesus went into solitude. But only for a moment and then he would again be there for the people. No hint of a monastic life there. He was completely in the present. Focused on the people and their needs.

 

[Daniel9v9]

I think a lot here is good, true, and commendable! The Lutheran system emphasises purity of both life and doctrine. And to live for God — to be on the way of life, to live a life of daily repentance and faith, a life of sanctification — means to love our neighbours in our various vocations or stations in life, as Till Schilling rightly points out. It's the fruit the Holy Spirit brings about in us, through God's means of grace.

Essentially, if you ask people of different church traditions to answer the question of "Why am I here?", you're likely to get somewhat different answers. The Lutheran answer would be something like: "To receive God's gifts of Law and Gospel, that we may be fully equipped to love Him and our neighbour wherever we are." So our focus is always on God's grace and love. Whatever is good is always received from God, and love is not some abstract ideal, but tangible and shaped by the Commandments, so that, wherever we are, we always have both a command and a gift to love. And though we fail in loving God and our neighbour as we should, we take comfort in that God's love for us is sufficient for our salvation.

God's blessings on your new year!

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

What about death--Isn't the fact that we still suffer and die proof that we still have a punishment or at the very least, the consequences of a punishment to bear?

Perhaps I am wrong about Lutheranism.

For me, the enmity with God is overcome by Christ associating with me in said enmity (which I still experience insomuch as I am a sinner). So Law and Gospel are working simultaneously.

Now, I might get this completely wrong and if so will hopefully be corrected. But to my mind believing in Christ in a Lutheran way frees us to live and do things. Precisely because we do not need to save ourselves. I dare say we do not need to worry about sins and our sinfulness. That has bern taken care of. The enmity between us and God HAS BEEN overcome in the death of Jesus. We are - in Christ - beloved adopted children of God. Even though we are still messed up and still evil.

And as the problem of sin has been taken care of, we are free to live and be there for others. Doing what little good we can do. And that might indeed mean doing politics! Why not? Or it might just mean doing our job well. Or raise children. Or look after elders or siblings. You are Christ to your sister.

Luther is quoted to have said that, knew he that the world will come to an end tomorrow, he would still plant an apple tree today. I find that remarkable.

Regarding our Lord Jesus himself we see him constantly meeting with people, eating with them, teaching them and healing them. Yes, Jesus went into solitude. But only for a moment and then he would again be there for the people. No hint of a monastic life there. He was completely in the present. Focused on the people and their needs.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

God uses the negative to accomplish his will

 

[Till Schilling]

God uses the negative to accomplish his will

I must admit that I am not a great fan of Bryan’s “talking while driving” videos. I appreciate him as an author when he puts thoughts to paper that have been thought through. The video is too spontaneous and improvised for me. Also it annoys me that he makes fun of how my native language sounds. And I do not understand what German word he uses as a translation for affliction. I tried but I don’t understand what word he means.

Anyway, it is an interesting and challenging topic. God uses afflictions and suffering. Most certainly true. But not to do penance.

I do not understand where this goes against the claim that God uses us to bless other people. And that this - serving God by serving others - is our raison d’être. I think Bryan says that as well.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Grief can be holy.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I haven't decided to become Lutheran but I have come to appreciate some of their distinctives. Here are a few:

1. Justification.

It's universal. The forgiveness of sins (a new life) is made real by the life, death and Resurrection of Christ. This Gospel is apprehended through the means of grace and through the preaching of the word when it is received by faith. In other words, Christ didn't just make forgiveness possible.

2. Baptism, Confession, Eucharist

I know where to go to receive forgiveness. It's clear and not difficult. I just get up out of my pew and walk about 20 feet. I don't have to wonder how to have faith or charity or how to respond when the Pastor says, 'Cling to Jesus'. The Pastor points to the Eucharist; Jesus is right there. Faith is real not an intellectual assent or feeling.

3. Asceticism and Theological Sobriety

This may sound like a strange one. Afterall, didn't Luther eschew pietism? Well, yes, but pietism is not what I mean. Lutherans seem to have inherited both the university and the monastery, but in a way that foregoes any pretence of intellectualism and elitist ideals.

As a Penitent, I don't employ methods of self-discipline. I don't harm myself with ropes, whips, fasting, or labour. It is God himself who chastises and disciplines me everyday through his Law, while comforting me and sustaining me through the Gospel. I experience sin as a state, with penitence and punishment, all three are a way of life. One in which my soul is continually plunged into the darkness, pruned, sawed, twisted, and pulled by God himself.

4. Paradox and Mystery
Holding all things together, Lutherans believe in the Virgin Birth, God becoming Man, simultaneously just and sinner (new and old), Providence elects but doesn't damn, bread and wine & Body and Blood, Wrath and Love, ect.
All others that I have encountered seek to 'make sense' of these things. Whether it's someone trying to explain the scientific method by which a virgin could conceive, to stating that if God elects some to salvation, he must elect others to condemnation, to if the Eucharist is truly Christ, then it can't be bread and wine, or a justified sinner is legal fiction,he must actually appear righteous. In Lutheranism the Faith is simply asserted.

5. A Rejection of Enthusiasm and Mysticism

I appreciate that the Faith is not proven or boistered by the extra biblical stories of supernatural experiences, apparitions, 'gifts' like speaking in tongues, prophesies, stirring emotions and revivalism.

The End

 

[Daniel9v9]

I must admit that I am not a great fan of Bryan’s “talking while driving” videos. I appreciate him as an author when he puts thoughts to paper that have been thought through. The video is too spontaneous and improvised for me. Also it annoys me that he makes fun of how my native language sounds. And I do not understand what German word he uses as a translation for affliction. I tried but I don’t understand what word he means.

Anyway, it is an interesting and challenging topic. God uses afflictions and suffering. Most certainly true. But not to do penance.

I do not understand where this goes against the claim that God uses us to bless other people. And that this - serving God by serving others - is our raison d’être. I think Bryan says that as well.

Sorry, I didn't watch the video, but could it be "Anfechtung"?

 

[Till Schilling]

Sorry, I didn't watch the video, but could it be "Anfechtung"?

Of course. What an idiot I am. Tentatio = Anfechtung.

But in a way it proves my point about this format, this type of unscripted video: for simpler minds like mine it is difficult to follow. I would prefer to have text.