What I appreciate about Lutheranism

[Till Schilling]

Well this article is arguing in my favour, so I'm not sure why you posted it. Did you actually read it? Hear is the conclusion.

Have you not seen that I already copied that conclusion in my post? Why did you post it again? Most likely because you did not bother to read my post.

I posted the link to the article as an example of where you are coming from. Not because I agree with it. And why shouldn’t I post that link? We are not afraid of your arguments. Only: you are asking the wrong question! The question is not whether the Formula of Concord agrees with Martin Luther but whether it agrees with Holy Scriptures. We cannot be certain about Luther’s opinion but - and you have been told this several times by now - Lutheran theology is NOT the theology of Martin Luther but of the confessional writings of the Book of Concord. They are the norm of Lutheran theology not Luther’s books. Not even the bondage of the will.

So your point that the Lutheran confessions do not agree with Luther are moot. Luther wrote a lot and he also changed his mind. It is impossible that everything in Luther would agree with Lutheran theology. Only those works of Luther which are part of the book of Concord must agree with the other books in the book of Concord written by Melanchthon, Chemnitz and Andreä. And they do, these works do agree with each other. Now your job is to show us that they do not agree with Scriptures!! Have fun trying. My guess is that, should you really try, you will end up a Confessional Lutheran.

 

[All Glory To God]

Have you not seen that I already copied that conclusion in my post? Why did you post it again? Most likely because you did not bother to read my post.

I posted the link to the article as an example of where you are coming from. Not because I agree with it. And why shouldn’t I post that link? We are not afraid of your arguments. Only: you are asking the wrong question! The question is not whether the Formula of Concord agrees with Martin Luther but whether it agrees with Holy Scriptures. We cannot be certain about Luther’s opinion but - and you have been told this several times by now - Lutheran theology is NOT the theology of Martin Luther but of the confessional writings of the Book of Concord. They are the norm of Lutheran theology not Luther’s books. Not even the bondage of the will.

So your point that the Lutheran confessions do not agree with Luther are moot. Luther wrote a lot and he also changed his mind. It is impossible that everything in Luther would agree with Lutheran theology. Only those works of Luther which are part of the book of Concord must agree with the other books in the book of Concord written by Melanchthon, Chemnitz and Andreä. And they do, these works do agree with each other. Now your job is to show us that they do not agree with Scriptures!! Have fun trying. My guess is that, should you really try, you will end up a Confessional Lutheran.

Bro why are you so miserable? I was only asking a sincere question. The reason I was asking is because the link you supplied lead on to an article that seemed to undermine the point you were making. So I wasn't sure if you are understanding the article. Or, you are understanding it and are offering it as some evidence to what you think reformed views are.

It was a simple question. At least I thought it was......

It's not a big deal though.

 

[Till Schilling]

Bro why are you so miserable? I was only asking a sincere question. The reason I was asking is because the link you supplied lead on to an article that seemed to undermine the point you were making. So I wasn't sure if you are understanding the article. Or, you are understanding it and are offering it as some evidence to what you think reformed views are.

It was a simple question. At least I thought it was......

It's not a big deal though.

I have a feeling we are talking past each other and this is not fruitful for either one. Let’s end it.

 

[JM]

I haven't decided to become Lutheran but I have come to appreciate some of their distinctives. Here are a few:

1. Justification.

It's universal. The forgiveness of sins (a new life) is made real by the life, death and Resurrection of Christ. This Gospel is apprehended through the means of grace and through the preaching of the word when it is received by faith. In other words, Christ didn't just make forgiveness possible.

2. Baptism, Confession, Eucharist

I know where to go to receive forgiveness. It's clear and not difficult. I just get up out of my pew and walk about 20 feet. I don't have to wonder how to have faith or charity or how to respond when the Pastor says, 'Cling to Jesus'. The Pastor points to the Eucharist; Jesus is right there. Faith is real not an intellectual assent or feeling.

3. Asceticism and Theological Sobriety

This may sound like a strange one. Afterall, didn't Luther eschew pietism? Well, yes, but pietism is not what I mean. Lutherans seem to have inherited both the university and the monastery, but in a way that foregoes any pretence of intellectualism and elitist ideals.

As a Penitent, I don't employ methods of self-discipline. I don't harm myself with ropes, whips, fasting, or labour. It is God himself who chastises and disciplines me everyday through his Law, while comforting me and sustaining me through the Gospel. I experience sin as a state, with penitence and punishment, all three are a way of life. One in which my soul is continually plunged into the darkness, pruned, sawed, twisted, and pulled by God himself.

4. Paradox and Mystery
Holding all things together, Lutherans believe in the Virgin Birth, God becoming Man, simultaneously just and sinner (new and old), Providence elects but doesn't damn, bread and wine & Body and Blood, Wrath and Love, ect.
All others that I have encountered seek to 'make sense' of these things. Whether it's someone trying to explain the scientific method by which a virgin could conceive, to stating that if God elects some to salvation, he must elect others to condemnation, to if the Eucharist is truly Christ, then it can't be bread and wine, or a justified sinner is legal fiction,he must actually appear righteous. In Lutheranism the Faith is simply asserted.

5. A Rejection of Enthusiasm and Mysticism

I appreciate that the Faith is not proven or boistered by the extra biblical stories of supernatural experiences, apparitions, 'gifts' like speaking in tongues, prophesies, stirring emotions and revivalism.

The End

This^

 

[JM]

I haven't decided to become Lutheran but I have come to appreciate some of their distinctives. Here are a few:

1. Justification.

It's universal. The forgiveness of sins (a new life) is made real by the life, death and Resurrection of Christ. This Gospel is apprehended through the means of grace and through the preaching of the word when it is received by faith. In other words, Christ didn't just make forgiveness possible.

2. Baptism, Confession, Eucharist

I know where to go to receive forgiveness. It's clear and not difficult. I just get up out of my pew and walk about 20 feet. I don't have to wonder how to have faith or charity or how to respond when the Pastor says, 'Cling to Jesus'. The Pastor points to the Eucharist; Jesus is right there. Faith is real not an intellectual assent or feeling.

3. Asceticism and Theological Sobriety

This may sound like a strange one. Afterall, didn't Luther eschew pietism? Well, yes, but pietism is not what I mean. Lutherans seem to have inherited both the university and the monastery, but in a way that foregoes any pretence of intellectualism and elitist ideals.

As a Penitent, I don't employ methods of self-discipline. I don't harm myself with ropes, whips, fasting, or labour. It is God himself who chastises and disciplines me everyday through his Law, while comforting me and sustaining me through the Gospel. I experience sin as a state, with penitence and punishment, all three are a way of life. One in which my soul is continually plunged into the darkness, pruned, sawed, twisted, and pulled by God himself.

4. Paradox and Mystery
Holding all things together, Lutherans believe in the Virgin Birth, God becoming Man, simultaneously just and sinner (new and old), Providence elects but doesn't damn, bread and wine & Body and Blood, Wrath and Love, ect.
All others that I have encountered seek to 'make sense' of these things. Whether it's someone trying to explain the scientific method by which a virgin could conceive, to stating that if God elects some to salvation, he must elect others to condemnation, to if the Eucharist is truly Christ, then it can't be bread and wine, or a justified sinner is legal fiction,he must actually appear righteous. In Lutheranism the Faith is simply asserted.

5. A Rejection of Enthusiasm and Mysticism

I appreciate that the Faith is not proven or boistered by the extra biblical stories of supernatural experiences, apparitions, 'gifts' like speaking in tongues, prophesies, stirring emotions and revivalism.

The End

Excellent.