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How can God forgive when you confess your sins to him (1 John 1:9) if what you say is truth? That would also have to mean that Jesus paid for the devil's sins, since you claim all sins are a team effort.
I think we've examined this subject enough to find the facts of same
or not.
Satan is against the LAW.
So the Biblical definition is faulty?Sin is falling short of the Glory of God..
Do you notice what you are saying here? Your position is that because you are going to break the rules there should be no rules. Is that really how God is? Should you not give your children rules because they will break them anyway? Continuing with your example, there should be no speed limit because people will exceed it anyway. God gave the Ten Commandments, if that was just the problem Jesus had no need to die, all God had to do was to remove the law. As a matter of fact since He is the all knowing God he did not need to put it there in the first place hen to have to remove it. God made a mistake and then He had to correct it with His life? Think again!For God is love and those who know God have His love in them. For one who does not love does not know God.. Pretty simple. It is not breaking a rule that sin abides it is in doing things that does not show the Love Christ has shown us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us... Rules will be broken. Have been broken and will always be broken. It is human nature. Even speed limit rules are broken. Even rules to be quiet in a library are broken. This is why we are to walk in His Love and not in rules that cannot be abided by.. So many try to walk,, and put on believers rules that they themselves cannot even keep..
My precious sisiter, it is God that gave the rules. You feed that he did not know what he was doing?It is called pharasee and hypocrites in scripture. Jesus speaks plainly about this.. I follow Christ. Not rules and regulations that keep one thinking they are better than because they try to keep the rules. I follow a living and Loving God who proved to the world that only one could keep the rules..
We are not set free from God requirements, not to steal or lie or commetting adutery. Your set free from the penalty of death after you have done such. Knowing that we have sinned we trun in repentance to God and recieves His forgiveness and golry Halelu, He saves us. My sister, don't you thing love has something to do with a wife not committing adutery? Don't you thing that love has something to do with worshipiing God an dHm alone? Don't you thing that Love has something to do with Honoring you parents? The Ten commandments is about love. That was always the case. Deut 6: 5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.He did. He fulfilled them. It is finished. We are in Him forgiven and set free from rules and regulations.. For now we have Him that indwells us and causes us to love as we should.. But when we sin, and not love as He has does He is just and faithful to forgive us of our sin and cleanse us from all unrightousness.. Two rules.. Love and Love.. He even gives us His love in our hearts to walk in these rules so it is a win win situation..
More than a thousand years has passed since the Cross. You have a problem here.One small little problem, ie, Satan is in hell at this moment, and has been since the Cross (Rev.12:7, etc.; Rev.20:2). At the Cross the 1,000 years began. He is forced to work through his agancies, ie, the beast and antichrist until loosed soon at Rev.20:7, ie, Nowism.
Jack - we are in the end time of the Jesuit "Millennial" where most looking forward to it, ie, astonishing to say the least, eg, IIThess.2:10b occuring this very moment.
I want to address what I bolded in your response.So the Biblical definition is faulty?
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. To take away sins not the law!
i Do you notice what you are saying here? Your position is that because you are going to break the rules there should be no rules. Is that really how God is? Should you not give your children rules because they will break them anyway? Continuing with your example, there should be no speed limit because people will exceed it anyway. God gave the Ten Commandments, if that was just the problem Jesus had no need to die, all God had to do was to remove the law. As a matter of fact since He is the all knowing God he did not need to put it there in the first place hen to have to remove it. God made a mistake and then He had to correct it with His life? Think again!
My precious sisiter, it is God that gave the rules. You feed that he did not know what he was doing?
We are not set free from God requirements, not to steal or lie or commetting adutery. Your set free from the penalty of death after you have done such. Knowing that we have sinned we trun in repentance to God and recieves His forgiveness and golry Halelu, He saves us. My sister, don't you thing love has something to do with a wife not committing adutery? Don't you thing that love has something to do with worshipiing God an dHm alone? Don't you thing that Love has something to do with Honoring you parents? The Ten commandments is about love. That was always the case. Deut 6: 5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Mat. 22: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Look above. Jesus spoke the same message in Deuteronomy with the Ten commandments so why do you thing that because He repeated it again that it suddenly replaces the Ten Commandments?
It is a theology that we have developed not one that Jesus gave. Look at the passage in Mathew carefully and see that Jesus was answering a question and that the lawyer knew the answer. It was a test by the Lawyer to trap Jesus and not a Statement that Jesus was making of a new position.
This ignores what imputes sin via transgression (see Romans 5:13).So the Biblical definition is faulty?
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. To take away sins not the law!
My very first contribution on this thread observed that you have taken it on yourself that the Law wasn't Holy, as soon as you posted questions that reduce the Ten Commandments to a list of 'principles' six times. That mindset continues unabated, and you would rather blame God for the mistake that you made.Do you notice what you are saying here? Your position is that because you are going to break the rules there should be no rules. Is that really how God is? Should you not give your children rules because they will break them anyway? Continuing with your example, there should be no speed limit because people will exceed it anyway. God gave the Ten Commandments, if that was just the problem Jesus had no need to die, all God had to do was to remove the law. As a matter of fact since He is the all knowing God he did not need to put it there in the first place hen to have to remove it. God made a mistake and then He had to correct it with His life? Think again!
I think that's far enough. The Ten Commandments wasn't a list of 'rules', and you have never provided any evidence that shows that the Gentiles in Barbados were ever given the old covenant from Mount Sinai - which is what the Ten Commandments really was. Yet this demand of yours that 'we are not set free from' the old covenant reveals the true nature of Adventism: a soteriology of works according to the Law. The quote above from Andreasen shows this error continues in modern Adventist theology.My precious sisiter, it is God that gave the rules. You feed that he did not know what he was doing?
We are not set free from God requirements
God says keep the Sabbath.
Neither one of these is true. If you cannot support them, you need to retract them in concession to Scripture's testimony that these ideas are foreign to the Gospel.The Sabbath is the test. The tree in the mist of the Garden. That person have to decide on.
I agree with you!For only by Grace through Faith can any man be saved and it is not by works of the law..
Adventism teaches sinless perfection, rather than the Gospel's message of Christ's redemption of our transgressions under the Law, as Hebrews 9:15 affirms. This mutilation is apparent in the doctrines they came up with, which even include their sinless perfection necessary to attain before the second advent can even happen.In the last generation God gives the final demonstration that men can keep the law of God and that they can live without sinning. God leaves nothing undone to make the demonstration complete. The only limitation He puts on Satan is that he may not kill the saints of God. He may tempt them, he may harass and threaten them; and he does his best. But he fails. He cannot make them sin. They stand the test, and God puts His seal on them. Through the last generation of saints God stands fully vindicated. (M.L. Andreasen The Sanctuary Service, Review and Herald, 1969 printing, pp. 318-19)I think that's far enough. The Ten Commandments wasn't a list of 'rules', and you have never provided any evidence that shows that the Gentiles in Barbados was ever given the old covenant from Mount Sinai - which is what the Ten Commandments really was. Yet this demand of yours that 'we are not set free from' the old covenant reveals the true nature of Adventism: a soteriology of works according to the Law. The quote above from Andreasen shows this error continues in modern Adventist theology.
Ahhh the Great Sabbath Test. The very one and only command that really decides if your headed for heaven or hell to be annihilated. Can't quite find the Gospel in there now can we?This ignores what imputes sin via transgression (see Romans 5:13).
We have already seen that your definition of sin is faulty, not even taking into account the tense of the verbs John uses in his first epistle, and dismissing his own proclamation that "All unrighteousness is sin" in v.5:17 of the same epistle. It is a Adventism's misapplication of one verse that argues against the Law's testimony of the limited tenure and scope of the Law's jurisdiction, demanding that the Law existed when and where it didn't exist.
Adventism teaches sinless perfection, rather than the Gospel's message of Christ's redemption of our transgressions under the Law, as Hebrews 9:15 affirms. This mutilation is apparent in the doctrines they came up with, which even include their sinless perfection necessary to attain before the second advent can even happen.
In the last generation God gives the final demonstration that men can keep the law of God and that they can live without sinning. God leaves nothing undone to make the demonstration complete. The only limitation He puts on Satan is that he may not kill the saints of God. He may tempt them, he may harass and threaten them; and he does his best. But he fails. He cannot make them sin. They stand the test, and God puts His seal on them. Through the last generation of saints God stands fully vindicated. (M.L. Andreasen The Sanctuary Service, Review and Herald, 1969 printing, pp. 318-19)The Gospel shows that God saves man.
Adventism has replaced this with a message of man vindicating God.
And that is according to this prominent SDA theologian. Bio--> ML Andreasen
My very first contribution on this thread observed that you have taken it on yourself that the Law wasn't Holy, as soon as you posted questions that reduce the Ten Commandments to a list of 'principles' six times. That mindset continues unabated, and you would rather blame God for the mistake that you made.
I think that's far enough. The Ten Commandments wasn't a list of 'rules', and you have never provided any evidence that shows that the Gentiles in Barbados was ever given the old covenant from Mount Sinai - which is what the Ten Commandments really was. Yet this demand of yours that 'we are not set free from' the old covenant reveals the true nature of Adventism: a soteriology of works according to the Law. The quote above from Andreasen shows this error continues in modern Adventist theology.
You have made two distinctive claims in this thread that you need to address.
Neither one of these is true. If you cannot support them, you need to retract them in concession to Scripture's testimony that these ideas are foreign to the Gospel.
If one could be truly righteous? The Law would be no issue. Only Jesus fulfilled the Law. In contrast, sinful men had their sinfulness exposed by trying to fulfill the Law. The Law showed man that he needed a Savior.
Uh, because Satan and devils resist God? Do you think Satan is termed the adversary for no cause?So, how can Satan be against the Law?
The law was not made to save THEM, but to CONVICT and to DAMN THEM.Why should he be? No fallen man can fulfill it anyway! If they could? There would be no need for salvation.
Why is it you can't seem to get the fact that Satan/devils and mankind overlap on matters of sin? Does it offend you, the fact of our sin being linked to Satanic slaveship?The Law is not a goal to be reached by man. Its there to show man that they need outside help if they are ever to be found righteous in God's sight. It exposes their unrighteousness.
Seriously? Do you even understand this subject matter? IT's one of the most basic foundational christian theological principles there is.One good thing that comes out from the Law... Its the means to condemn all who reject God's grace.
1 Timothy 1:9
We also know that the law is made not for the righteousThe Law is not for the righteous! So? How can Satan be against the Law???
but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful,
the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers
or mothers, for murderers...
Where do you get the idea I ever promoted that? Never have. Have always said the exact opposite. Who are you reading? Someone else?And.. How can a fallen man be made righteous by following the Law? How!? The Law is NOT for the righteous!
No argument from me. My main point in these matters is that under either LAW or GRACE that the tempter is not justified under either flag and all of us are subject to temptation after salvation.The way to righteousness is the Filling of the Spirit! We are to be filled with the Spirit and continuously growing in grace and knowledge of Christ - who is the Word!
Few people -including most SDA members- understand how their own Sanctuary Doctrine permeates their theological perspective. Their dependence on a non-event in 1844 goes so far that it introduced a dispensation that mandates sabbath-keeping after this date.Ahhh the Great Sabbath Test. The very one and only command that really decides if your headed for heaven or hell to be annihilated. Can't quite find the Gospel in there now can we?
(satire)Gotta love this pet sin we need to save those silly people from. Don't worry about the Gospel cause it just get's in the way of saving these silly people from their papal Sunday sin. (satire)
More than a thousand years has passed since the Cross. You have a problem here.
The fact that transgression of the law is a sin is beyond question. It is a fact of many scriptures. The fact that sin is of the devil is also beyond question and is a fact of many scriptures.
Satan/devils and LAW are just as intimately linked as man is.
Uh, because Satan and devils resist God? Do you think Satan is termed the adversary for no cause?
I've cited to you several times now to read 'our' Gospels. Matt. 13, Mark 4, Luke 8 and many other scriptures show that Satan automatically resists Gods Words where they are sown.
Satan reacts adversely to LAW, does so primarily through the thought realm via TEMPTATIONs and every sin is connected to Satan.
How much more linkage do you want?
The law was not made to save THEM, but to CONVICT and to DAMN THEM.
Why is it you can't seem to get the fact that Satan/devils and mankind overlap on matters of sin? Does it offend you, the fact of our sin being linked to Satanic slaveship?
Scriptures leave all of us who claim to be 'christians' only ONE PATH out of the MESS of Satanic slaveship. It is found (among other places) in Romans 13:8-10, which is the spiritual fulfillment of the LAW by/in everyone who does that. When believers do this they prove that Christ is in them, LOVING.
Satan and devils assuredly can not perform that. That is one way to determine who is a slave and who is a free man.
Seriously? Do you even understand this subject matter? IT's one of the most basic foundational christian theological principles there is.
Satan is the enemy of God.
Where do you get the idea I ever promoted that? Never have. Have always said the exact opposite. Who are you reading? Someone else?
Stay on cue.
No argument from me. My main point in these matters is that under either LAW or GRACE that the tempter is not justified under either flag and all of us are subject to temptation after salvation.
Therefore we can not claim the tempter is legal or the tempter is under grace. For any reason.
Your avenue out of that fact was to claim you are void of internal temptation of the tempter. That is where you fell off the viable conversation list.
s
There seems to be a deep chasm on both sides of the Law that people can fall into. Seems when you point to the good of the Law people confuse it with salvation coming from The Law. The Law is not bad. Seeking Salvation in the Law is bad.
I did not get the impression that you were promoting anything other than being truthful to ourselves.
Good morning Squint.
Problem reconciled: Let's eyeball Rev.20:2, ie, "1,000 years." All Greek to me but let's begin, ie, the accusative xilia ete, "for a 1,000 years" simply expresses extent of time. Revelation is full, not only of symbolical numbers, but of symbols of all kinds. It would be strange, indeed, if "1,000 years" were here it occurs in so marked a way all of six times, to be understood in a literal sense.
Again the 1,000 years began with the binidng and the imprisonment of Satan in his person (person, using the limited English to convey thet sense); during the entire 1,000 years he is not to decieve (planesa, aorist) the nations as he once did; these years end when mikron xronon, "a little length of time, sets in," Satan loosed in his person at Rev.20:7 - soon!
One binding occurred, ie, Lk.11:21, 22 that interferred most decisively with his deceiving the nations (Isa.53:12; Col.2:15), ie, last temptation (Lk.4:1-13). This is the binding of Satan that is here symbolized. It is in part and for a different purpose (namely as regards the woman and the continuous existence of the church in spite of the devil) symbolized already in Rev.12:7-17.
It took place when Jesus cried triumphantly on the Cross: "It has been finished!" at the Cross.
Sorry, got carried away again,
Jack
Well good morning to you Randy.
I'm all for honest christians. I don't try to justify the tempter between my own 2 ears under either law or grace, that's for sure.
I often remind that bad actor what's coming for him. So in this way I use both LAW and DAMNATION texts firmly applied therein.
Many christians just don't understand the principle that where the Word is sown, Satan resists and does so in 'any' person, believer or unbeliever, in the predetermined role of THE TEMPTER.
Therefore the LAW is rightfully against that lawless one who happens to operate 'in man' as the scriptures clearly show us all.
It's one of the more interesting facts of christianity that seems to be overlooked by the bulk of theologians.
s
Placing Jesus back up on the Cross, ie, "It has been finished!", Satan in his person doesn't operate, however does through his agencies.
The reason for my response is you unknowingly here pinned the tail on the donkey, ie, the Antichrist reveals himself as the Antichrist by this pagan act of seating himself in the true God's own Sanctuary (not "Temple") - within us where the Holy Spirit is suppose to be, now, this moment (IIThess.2:10b).
One of the more facts of christianity is unveiling the dark, horrid pall of forever doom overhead most oblivious to where the dupes unknowingly are worshipping the effigy.
btw I wonder how many times I actually posted the Truth, and wasn't aware of it?
So who are you talking about if it isn't the Christian? And why do you say the Christian is bound to the law? Are you implying we're not Christians? Is the Christian righteous in God's eyes?The fact that transgression of the law is a sin is beyond question. It is a fact of many scriptures. The fact that sin is of the devil is also beyond question and is a fact of many scriptures.
Satan/devils and LAW are just as intimately linked as man is.
Uh, because Satan and devils resist God? Do you think Satan is termed the adversary for no cause?
I've cited to you several times now to read 'our' Gospels. Matt. 13, Mark 4, Luke 8 and many other scriptures show that Satan automatically resists Gods Words where they are sown.
Satan reacts adversely to LAW, does so primarily through the thought realm via TEMPTATIONs and every sin is connected to Satan.
How much more linkage do you want?
The law was not made to save THEM, but to CONVICT and to DAMN THEM.
Why is it you can't seem to get the fact that Satan/devils and mankind overlap on matters of sin? Does it offend you, the fact of our sin being linked to Satanic slaveship?
Scriptures leave all of us who claim to be 'christians' only ONE PATH out of the MESS of Satanic slaveship. It is found (among other places) in Romans 13:8-10, which is the spiritual fulfillment of the LAW by/in everyone who does that. When believers do this they prove that Christ is in them, LOVING.
Satan and devils assuredly can not perform that. That is one way to determine who is a slave and who is a free man.
Seriously? Do you even understand this subject matter? IT's one of the most basic foundational christian theological principles there is.
Satan is the enemy of God.
Where do you get the idea I ever promoted that? Never have. Have always said the exact opposite. Who are you reading? Someone else?
Stay on cue.
No argument from me. My main point in these matters is that under either LAW or GRACE that the tempter is not justified under either flag and all of us are subject to temptation after salvation.
Therefore we can not claim the tempter is legal or the tempter is under grace. For any reason.
Your avenue out of that fact was to claim you are void of internal temptation of the tempter. That is where you fell off the viable conversation list.
s
So who are you talking about if it isn't the Christian? ->And why do you say the Christian is bound to the law? ->Are you implying we're not Christians? ->Is the Christian righteous in God's eyes?
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