• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

Sophrosyne

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Jun 21, 2007
163,215
64,198
In God's Amazing Grace
✟910,522.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
I get frustrated with the wanna be theologians.
I get more frustrated with those that buy into some single persons theology so much that they totally REFUSE to even try to be their own theologian always differing to what that persons wrong theology says instead of seeking the truth for themselves in the Bible. The wanna be theologians do at times get it wrong but more often get it MORE right than those who ignore the Holy Spirit within them for some messed up prophet or prophetess.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,169
1,377
75
Atlanta
✟109,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Listen friend, a teacher reiterates the words in scripture but the spirit teaches, that's what it means.

Is that what you think a teacher does? A teacher who is himself anointed and educated and prepared, will expound and teach the Scriptures to *explain* what is being said in a manner you can relate to today. Otherwise, what you described? Is a teacher takes the written Word and is no better than an audio book.

Hearing simply the words read that are written from a teacher? If that were the case? All we would need is our own Bibles to read for ourselves.

Paul was an intensely deep and gifted Apostle. His words need at times to be slowly explained, a piece at a time. Even the Apostle Peter had difficulty with some of the thoughts Paul penned.

Look!

2 Peter 3:15-17​
Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother
Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way
in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things
that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort,
as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that
you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your
secure position.



Don't become one of those who lead others away from the teachings of Paul. It requires an excellent Pastor-Teacher to rightly explain Paul. First of all, it requires a pastor who is well trained in the Hebrew and Greek texts to be able to grasp the depth of Paul's thinking. That's where Paul's teaching ultimately lead to if you truly want to understand what it is God gave Paul for the Church!

Peter warned about the problem with Paul's letters..


His letters contain some things that are hard to understand,
which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the
other Scriptures, to their own destruction.



John is saying dont listen to these folks who are trying to lead you astray, instead listen to Jesus words and his apostles (who were given the authority to teach Jesus commands.). How can John "teach" us that we don't need a teacher? Hes just saying abide in Christs words and the spirit will teach you.
If you are not taught the Written Word with accuracy and understanding? You will be only following the fantasy and speculation of some man who knows how to say words that will appeal the the arrogance and self righteousness of believers who choose not to get themselves on the strait and narrow road.

The word is "strait", not straight. Its an old English word that means "strict." For anyone who knows with certainty that he is going to be judged by God for what he teaches, knows that he better be a full time student and to study hard to show himself approved. Not like the lazy pastors who read articles on how to create a sermon.. or have a collection of books on sermons to give. Or, listen to their favorite preacher to become his clone behind the pulpit. Or, worse yet. Become like a native shaman by working themselves up to be carried along with what they call the Spirit, and improvise subjective nonsense while throwing in Scripture that gets his congregation all worked up in their emotions, too.

Paul also warned about those who teach and are taught by means of their emotional impulses and claim its the Spirit. We have Holy Rollers amongst us for that reason.

Philippians 3:17-19

Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as
you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do.


For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears,
many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction,
their god is their emotions, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind
is set on earthly things.



The church today is filled with spiritual idiots -YES! The blind leading (and sometimes dragging) the blind. When told the truth about what they need in order to understand God's Word? They put up self righteous fronts and then gather like minded believers with them to help each other cover their eyes and ears.


So be it!

Jesus did warn that only a few will find the life He came to give us.

Get in line with the many. Its you're choice. But, not mine.

In Christ.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

MJohn7

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2013
1,989
63
✟2,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Is that what you think a teacher does? A teacher who is himself anointed and educated and prepared, will expound and teach the Scriptures to *explain* what is being said in a manner you can relate to today. Otherwise, what you described? Is a teacher takes the written Word and is no better than an audio book.

Hearing simply the words read that are written from a teacher? If that were the case? All we would need is our own Bibles to read for ourselves.

Paul was an intensely deep and gifted Apostle. His words need at times to be slowly explained, a piece at a time. Even the Apostle Peter had difficulty with some of the thoughts Paul penned.

Look!
2 Peter 3:15-17​
Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother
Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way
in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things
that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort,
as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that
you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your
secure position.



Don't become one of those who lead others away from the teachings of Paul. It requires an excellent Pastor-Teacher to rightly explain Paul. First of all, it requires a pastor who is well trained in the Hebrew and Greek texts to be able to grasp the depth of Paul's thinking. That's where Paul's teaching ultimately lead to if you truly want to understand what it is God gave Paul for the Church!

Peter warned about the problem with Paul's letters..

His letters contain some things that are hard to understand,
which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the
other Scriptures, to their own destruction.



If you are not taught the Written Word with accuracy and understanding? You will be only following the fantasy and speculation of some man who knows how to say words that will appeal the the arrogance and self righteousness of believers who choose not to get themselves on the strait and narrow road.

The word is "strait", not straight. Its an old English word that means "strict." For anyone who knows with certainty that he is going to be judged by God for what he teaches, knows that he better be a full time student and to study hard to show himself approved. Not like the lazy pastors who read articles on how to create a sermon.. or have a collection of books on sermons to give. Or, listen to their favorite preacher to become his clone behind the pulpit. Or, worse yet. Become like a native shaman by working themselves up to be carried along with what they call the Spirit, and improvise subjective nonsense while throwing in Scripture that gets his congregation all worked up in their emotions, too.

Paul also warned about those who teach and are taught by means of their emotional impulses and claim its the Spirit. We have Holy Rollers amongst us for that reason.
Philippians 3:17-19

Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as
you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do.


For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears,
many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction,
their god is their emotions, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind
is set on earthly things.



The church today is filled with spiritual idiots -YES! The blind leading (and sometimes dragging) the blind. When told the truth about what they need in order to understand God's Word? They put up self righteous fronts and then gather like minded believers with them to help each other cover their eyes and ears.


So be it!

Jesus did warn that only a few will find the life He came to give us.

Get in line with the many. Its you're choice. But, not mine.

In Christ.


No teacher is infallible in my opinion, that's my point. Don't worry, im not wanting to lead anyone anywhere.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,169
1,377
75
Atlanta
✟109,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You are not teaching me anything i don't already know, i agree we should avoid teachers and study the NT ourself. Not that we cannot learn from others but we dont need to have a man teach us, that's dangerous.

Dangerous? I admit most teachers could be. But.. we have a problem here. The Bible states that God gave us pastor-teachers for teaching and building us up in the Word. You have the gift? Then speak for yourself only. People go in a thousand different directions and become influenced by demons acting like a counterfeit Holy Spirit because they refuse to find a shepherd who's authority they will respect. Or, they want to be an authority onto themselves,,, and leap into the counterfeit anointing with a deeply religious sense.

Tell me.. How do you understand this?


Titus 2:11-12

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness
and worldly passions, and to
live self-controlled, upright
and godly lives in this present age.


Now if you want the KJV?



For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live
soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;



Looks simple enough in the English, even the King James.

Tells us what it means, please.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,169
1,377
75
Atlanta
✟109,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
No teacher is infallible in my opinion, that's my point. Don't worry, im not wanting to lead anyone anywhere.


But, you were teaching him, that he needs no one to teach him!

Are we tip toeing around that point?


:preach: I am here to tell you, that you do not need to hear me tell you!
 
Upvote 0
F

from scratch

Guest
I get more frustrated with those that buy into some single persons theology so much that they totally REFUSE to even try to be their own theologian always differing to what that persons wrong theology says instead of seeking the truth for themselves in the Bible. The wanna be theologians do at times get it wrong but more often get it MORE right than those who ignore the Holy Spirit within them for some messed up prophet or prophetess.
:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

MJohn7

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2013
1,989
63
✟2,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Dangerous? I admit most teachers could be. But.. we have a problem here. The Bible states that God gave us pastor-teachers for teaching and building us up in the Word. You have the gift? Then speak for yourself only. People go in a thousand different directions and become influenced by demons acting like a counterfeit Holy Spirit because they refuse to find a shepherd who's authority they will respect. Or, they want to be an authority onto themselves,,, and leap into the counterfeit anointing with a deeply religious sense.

Tell me.. How do you understand this?


Titus 2:11-12

For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness
and worldly passions, and to
live self-controlled, upright
and godly lives in this present age.


Now if you want the KJV?



For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


Looks simple enough in the English, even the King James.

Tells us what it means, please.


Look around GT, what denomination is 100% correct? None. What TV preacher or internet preacher is infallible? None. and Please friend, my course isnt in a thousand different directions, thats exactly my point. I can follow paul.s words well enough to please God, i have faith in God. I dont want a teacher, the bible is full of them. Im not rebelious or proud, just careful.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,169
1,377
75
Atlanta
✟109,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I get more frustrated with those that buy into some single persons theology so much that they totally REFUSE to even try to be their own theologian always differing to what that persons wrong theology says instead of seeking the truth for themselves in the Bible. The wanna be theologians do at times get it wrong but more often get it MORE right than those who ignore the Holy Spirit within them for some messed up prophet or prophetess.


A good pastor will supply you with what you need to get you to think for yourself. Not to get you to think through him. A good pastor is not a puppet master. Though, that tendency is common enough by nature when people love their pastor. He must teach them not to be that way as a part of nurturing them. Like a parent who teaches his children to become independent thinkers.

A really good pastor is one who teaches his flock so well. That, having matured under his teaching. They will have been made able to even show him an area that he is missing. As long as they remain objective, it is a great way to have checks and balances.

Seen it done. Only an pastor doing his job well as unto the Lord, and not people, will be able to produce such ability in his students. My pastor always told us to become original thinkers. That his job was to supply us with the material to think with, that he was not to do our thinking for us.

Not surprisingly, while he was alive, he had many pastors from all over the country ordering his teachings. Some hated him because he exposed their false ideas, but they still took what they could and used it as a basis for forming of their messages...

Saw one pastor who's congregation saw him as a genius. Yet, it was this other pastor's teachings he was gleaning from. Then, to only turn around and condemn that pastor for certain teachings he did not agree with.. Yet? Kept using that pastors teachings as if they were his own. I found that both angering and confusing to watch. But, the people were getting fed good teaching as far as that goes. So, who was I to say otherwise. Paul rejoiced when he saw those opposing him preaching Christ.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,169
1,377
75
Atlanta
✟109,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
A teacher is always a student.

A good pastor-teacher is a continuous student. He should be a super student of God's Word.

My pastor (who is now with the Lord) used to study about eight hours a day. Get up from his study, and drive to church to teach us. He did not teach only Sunday and Wednesdays. He taught every evening of the week ... except Saturday, so he could catch a football game when in season!

The apostles used to teach DAILY. So, did Jesus. Jesus told us to pray for our daily bread.

When you attended secular school, did you go only two days a week? The education we receive from God's Word is infinitely more important for our souls than secular classes. Yet, most believers treat Bible classes as an obligation to be fulfilled, rather than a tremendous privileged we are being offered by God to prepare us for the Life we are to graduate into, both here in time, and for eternity.
Matthew 26:55​
In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading
a rebellion, that you have come out with swords
and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the
temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me.


Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were more open minded than those
in Thessalonica, for they received the message
with great
eagerness and examined the Scriptures every
day wanting
to see if what Paul said was true.


The Bereans thought what Paul was teaching daily was almost too good to be true. They were not searching the Scriptures as to find some way to prove him wrong. Rather, it was done to prove that what he said was right! They loved Paul's teaching!
 
Upvote 0

MJohn7

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2013
1,989
63
✟2,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And what about Theosis? (*everybody scrambles for their books or favorite search engine*)

God be gracious to me a sinner.


Im not sure what EO means by that term but Paul said follow his example and doctrine and the God of Peace will be with us,and Jesus said anyone who keeps His words are like wise men. Thats good enough for me, the B.i.b.l.e. :)
 
Upvote 0

OrthodoxyUSA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 6, 2004
25,292
2,868
61
Tupelo, MS
Visit site
✟187,274.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Im not sure what EO means by that term but Paul said follow his example and doctrine and the God of Peace will be with us,and Jesus said anyone who keeps His words are like wise men. Thats good enough for me, the B.i.b.l.e. :)

Theosis = salvation.

But we don't need to be taught.

God be gracious to me a sinner.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,532
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,330.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
And what about Theosis? (*everybody scrambles for their books or favorite search engine*)

God be gracious to me a sinner.
Is that the opposite of Osmosis?


.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,169
1,377
75
Atlanta
✟109,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And what about Theosis? (*everybody scrambles for their books or favorite search engine*)


2 Corinthians 3:18

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate
the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his
image with ever-increasing glory, which comes
from the Lord, who is the Spirit.


Paul could write those words because he and others at that time were teaching with such a high quality that their teaching could bring their hearers to obtaining the fulness in Christ. It takes a pastor who has obtained, or on his way, to obtaining this fulness (pleroma) which he is to impart with knowledge and understanding which is needed in the hearts of the believers that listen to them.
 
Upvote 0

MJohn7

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2013
1,989
63
✟2,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Theosis = salvation.

But we don't need to be taught.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

We don't have a need to be taught that word, no. But thanks for sharing it all the same, it helps to understand someone when you speak their language.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,169
1,377
75
Atlanta
✟109,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Theosis = salvation.

But we don't need to be taught.

God be gracious to me a sinner.



Question: "What is theosis?"

Answer:
The term “theosis” has two meanings, the condition or the state of deity and the deification of man. Only God has the condition of deity in and of Himself. No man can ever attain true divinity. There is only one God and we are not Him. However, theosis is also the state of being divinized or God-infused, both in character and person (2 Peter 1:4). Peter describes Christians as being “partakers of the divine nature” (KJV). The Greek word koinōnos translated “partakers,” means a sharer, associate, companion. Christians, through the great promises of salvation, sanctification and the privilege of sonship through faith in Christ, become participants in the divine nature of God.

Through the process of theosis, man exhibits or reveals within himself the presence of God in his life. Theosis is also associated with another term called ”perichoresis” which is a Greek term describing the relationship between each person of the Trinity. Therefore, theosis is related to his ability for perichoresis, or interrelationship, in which God resides within His human creation. As a result of theosis, and this indwelling relationship of God, man is made alive, full, and complete.

It is only because God created man with the ability to experience theosis, i.e., God literally dwelling within us, that we become a reflection of Him. Another way to look at the idea of theosis is what Paul tells us in Romans 12:2: “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Theosis, that process of becoming like God, is the transformation that takes place within the believer. But it is really more than that. This transformation is made perfect through our partaking in His nature through the Holy Spirit which resides within us. As a result, there comes to the Christian a profound sense of unity with God. Though we know that the full realization of our oneness—our perfection with God—comes after death, this process of theosis or divinization grows in time, by degrees, throughout our lives.

One of the best ways to describe how we can become like God is found in the teachings of Jesus, especially in the Beatitudes as recorded in Matthew chapter 5. It is here that Jesus culminates his teachings with the command to be “perfect” as God is. Prior to this, He was setting a new standard, a new law that superseded that of the old law. The goal, to be perfect, to achieve spiritual excellence, is a constant process. The goal for the Christian is essentially to be different from the world, to be more like God.

Having said that, though, it is crucial to understand that we do not experience theosis by any amount of determination or fleshly effort of our own. It is only through the indwelling Holy Spirit, who empowers us and leads us to godly living by His work in our hearts that we can come closer to God and display the divine nature. For example, it is through this process of theosis, becoming one with God, experiencing His absolute, limitless love that we come to know how to love even our enemies. It is only through His Spirit residing within us that we as believers love and pray for those who seek to do us harm (Romans 12:14-21).

Read more: What is theosis?
 
Upvote 0

Elder 111

Member
Mar 12, 2010
5,104
110
where there is summer all year and sea all around
✟30,223.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
[FONT=&quot]Originally Posted by Elder 111[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT] [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thank God for scripture.[/FONT]
Agreed. So far I can't see where you have accepted Scripture's authority, so I don't know why you're thanking God for His inspired Word.
So what do I quote below?
[FONT=&quot]Originally Posted by Elder 111[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT] [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?


27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.[/FONT]


This is unrelated to my request for evidence that God ever asked/commanded either the Gentiles or His adopted children to observe the sabbath. Perhaps you should read Romans 2:23 more carefully in your own post. The quote from Isaiah 8:20 still applies to those who speak contrary to the Law.
What is Paul taking about? 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
Is this not of the Ten Commandments? Does paul object to the teaching of the Ten commandments to be kept by the gentle?
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
What Law?
Ten Commandments!
Who keeping it?
The gentles!
Does Paul object?
NO!
Rather He points out that it serves as a condemnation to the Jews!
Oh! If only we will take the scriptures for what they say.:unbelievable:
 
Upvote 0