What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by genez

Good point!

This is all that was ever commanded of the Gentiles by Law abiding believer Jews.

Acts 15:19-20

“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.


​

No mention of them keeping the Sabbath. SDA's are primarily Gentiles, who believed.
​

A belief in violating the Law in order to promote the law begs the question of where their belief is placed. Decoder rings to the Pen of Liability are necessary at this juncture.

genez's argument is flawed isn't it? There is no mention of even worshiping God alone, nor coveting etc. does that mean we are free to do those things? Get rid of the stupid arguments and face the facts.

 

[VictorC]

So what do I quote below?

What is Paul taking about? 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
Is this not of the Ten Commandments? Does paul object to the teaching of the Ten commandments to be kept by the gentle?

What Law?
Ten Commandments!
Who keeping it?
The gentles!
Does Paul object?
NO!
Rather He points out that it serves as a condemnation to the Jews!

Let's add v.27:
And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?

Your selection shows those who don't keep the Law putting those who make their boast in the Law to shame. This is consistent with Paul's determination found in Galatians 6:13 where he wrote "For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh."

If nothing else, I am convinced that you can't read a narrative for what it says. This has happened so many times that you remain in shame for opinions you can't reconcile with the Law you make your boast in.

Oh! If only we will take the scriptures for what they say.

To remind you of your claims you can't find support for:

Let me try to put things in perpective as I know and as I accept as a Seventh Day Adventist.

God says keep the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is the test. The tree in the mist of the Garden. That person have to decide on.

Sabbath should be a day of rest and worship as God requires not as SDA's say.

In your contentions you violate the Law you make your boast in, by speaking directly contrary to its own testimony from God speaking to Moses. As a seventh-day Adventist you have torn Exodus 31 from your copy of the Bible, and you argue that others should do the same and violate the Law as you do.
Isaiah spoke well of such darkness we are to avoid.

 

[VictorC]

genez's argument is flawed isn't it? There is no mention of even worshiping God alone, nor coveting etc. does that mean we are free to do those things? Get rid of the stupid arguments and face the facts.

No, genez doesn't postulate the basic flaw that you do. Nowhere does God command or ask the Gentiles to keep the sabbath. You didn't even address what genez posted.

Your questions show that your nature tends toward evil deeds, and is the same argument Paul condemns in Romans 3:8 - and you've repeated the same argument to your detriment many times.

Those are the facts. You can't deal with content, and so you appeal to the logical fallacy of argumentum ad hominem.

 

[MJohn7]

Nowhere does God command or ask the Gentiles to keep the sabbath.

Nor Sunday, lent, good friday, ash Wednesday or any day.

 

[VictorC]

Nor Sunday, lent, good friday, ash Wednesday or any day.

I agree. I find that those who postulate a Sunday variant of sabbatarianism are equally guilty of the same errors sabbatarians make.

Galatians 4
9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

We have left the periodic shadows to enter into the permanent reality of God's rest that has never ended since His completed work of creation documented in the Genesis record. The matters of when we meet on a periodic basis are non-essential traditions that have no impact on our obedience to God's unction to assemble with like-minded believers. In that tradition made meeting on Sunday a common practice only opens discussions such as these to help us determine the depth of God's redemption from the former shadows that don't provide His rest.

 

[maco]

Originally Posted by VictorC

Nowhere does God command or ask the Gentiles to keep the sabbath.​

The seventh day was created as part of creation itself and is for all creation. This includes all mankind including all Jews, all Gentiles even all working animals.

Mark 2:27 And Jesus said unto them, “The Sabbath was made for mankind, and not mankind for the Sabbath.

Isaiah 56:6 And the Lord says to those foreigners who become part of his people, who love him and serve him, who observe the Sabbath and faithfully keep his covenant.

Exodus 20:8-11 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.

 

[VictorC]

The seventh day was created as part of creation itself and is for all creation.

And you found my last post made allusion to the seventh day recorded in Genesis 2 as God's rest. That is the promise that remained to be attained, that the Law didn't provide, referenced and quoted directly in Hebrews 4:1-10.

Mark 2:27 And Jesus said unto them, “The Sabbath was made for mankind, and not mankind for the Sabbath.

Jesus differentiates the sabbath apart from God's rest we have entered into. Mark 2:27 nullifies your previous contention that misapplies the singular seventh day to the periodic shadow.

Isaiah 56:6 And the Lord says to those foreigners who become part of his people, who love him and serve him, who observe the Sabbath and faithfully keep his covenant.

That would be the old covenant that contained the sabbath. As Hebrews 8:13 contends, "In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." And vanish it did by the Hand of God, as Hebrews 10:9 concludes "He takes away the first that He may establish the second."

Exodus 20:8-11 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. [/COLOR]For in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.

Notice that in quoting the old covenant exclusive to the children of Israel, the impetus to ordain the periodic is linked to a singular historical event, in the same way that Deuteronomy 5:15 draws on the exodus from Egyptian bondage. Nowhere does this convey the sabbath outside the limited jurisdiction the old covenant had, and it was never given to either the Gentiles nor to God's adopted children who are no longer accounted as the children of Israel.

Galatians 4 summarizes the Gospel in just a few succinct verses.

4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

The Law's retention until the fulness of time determined by God is presented in the past tense. Are you accounted as a slave the Law was given to, or as an adopted child of the Living God?
Notice what I posted, that you quoted from me:

Nowhere does God command or ask the Gentiles to keep the sabbath.

The verbs are in the present tense. What I posted remains uncontested. Elder111 has contradicted the Law Spoken in Exodus 31:13, and you're repeating his mistake.

 

[from scratch]

The seventh day was created as part of creation itself and is for all creation. This includes all mankind including all Jews, all Gentiles even all working animals.

Mark 2:27 And Jesus said unto them, “The Sabbath was made for mankind, and not mankind for the Sabbath.

Isaiah 56:6 And the Lord says to those foreigners who become part of his people, who love him and serve him, who observe the Sabbath and faithfully keep his covenant.

Exodus 20:8-11 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.

Not so fast there maco.


Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.

Both of these passages show exclusivism to Israel.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Not so fast there maco.


Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.

Both of these passages show exclusivism to Israel.

You know I'm getting kind of tired of the Law promoters putting the Blinders on to scripture that blatantly shows the Law was the property of Israel ALONE, scripture that shows one must be circumcised to partake of it and proof Gentiles are not required to become circumcised AT ALL.
How obvious can the logic be that the Law isn't for but the Jews and wannabe Jews. I would equate the more spiritual Jews treat the Law akin to a tradition more than an obligation as they are in the Spirit they need not the Law to feel close to God is is nothing compared to being in the spirit.

 

[GenemZ]

Originally Posted by genez

Good point!

This is all that was ever commanded of the Gentiles by Law abiding believer Jews.

Acts 15:19-20

“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.


​

No mention of them keeping the Sabbath. SDA's are primarily Gentiles, who believed.
​

genez's argument is flawed isn't it? There is no mention of even worshiping God alone, nor coveting etc. does that mean we are free to do those things? Get rid of the stupid arguments and face the facts.

You want to get rid of both common sense and the Bible...

I had enough of you. Send it back to the kitchen. Its spoiled.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You want to get rid of both common sense and the Bible...

I had enough of you. Send it back to the kitchen. Its spoiled.

You are arguing with a pseudo-Jew.... not a Gentiles that is the problem in that the SDA church doesn't really know what they truly are they have subscribed to a sort of upgraded Old Covenant that isn't quite the New nor the Old either leading to them being nowhere in a covenant in the end.

 

[GenemZ]

You are arguing with a pseudo-Jew.... not a Gentiles that is the problem in that the SDA church doesn't really know what they truly are they have subscribed to a sort of upgraded Old Covenant that isn't quite the New nor the Old either leading to them being nowhere in a covenant in the end.

He is not even close to a Jew. I was born and raised Jewish. People like that used to make me think religion is nonsense when I was growing up. So proud of the acts they do in the name of God, but one look at their soul it made me wonder what kind of world they live in. I am glad when I got saved that the Holy Spirit opened my eyes that life with Christ is beyond religion. Religious people are self deluded. All forms of religion is Satan's cheap substitute.

This is the only religion the Bible approves of..

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows

in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.





​

What can you say to someone who has no ears to hear? He's not my problem. His problem will take place when he appears before the Lord who has a great disdain for Pharisaical souls.

 

[Sophrosyne]

He is not even close to a Jew. I was born and raised Jewish. People like that used to make me think religion is nonsense when I was growing up. So proud of the acts they do in the name of God, but one look at their soul it made me wonder what kind of world they live in. I am glad when I got saved that the Holy Spirit opened my eyes that life with Christ is beyond religion. Religious people are self deluded. All forms of religion is Satan's cheap substitute.

This is the only religion the Bible approves of..

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows

in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.





​

What can you say to someone who has no ears to hear? He's not my problem. His problem will take place when he appears before the Lord who has a great disdain for Pharisaical souls.

Exactly.... one doesn't consider a bunch of rules and a piece of paper a marriage but instead one aspires to make the best of things and love their spouse helping to make life better and hopefully help to improve both of them. Not commiting adultery doesn't save marriages it is NOT loving that destroys them. Not murdering people doesn't make them want you around it is loving them that does. The 10 commandments don't equate love but instead curb hatred to a manageable level if properly enforced.

 

[GenemZ]

The 10 commandments don't equate love but instead curb hatred to a manageable level if properly enforced.

The Ten Commandments were initiated by the Lord to establish the new nation, soon to become Israel, to condition them as to establish the means for liberty in the Land when they arrived.

While in the wilderness the Lord was weeding out all those who refused to abide by the Ten Commandments. It was the younger generation that made it into the Promised Land. The only adults who left Egypt to make it into the Land of Milk and Honey were families of Caleb and Joshua.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The Ten Commandments were initiated by the Lord to establish the new nation, soon to become Israel, to condition them as to establish the means for liberty in the Land when they arrived.

While in the wilderness the Lord was weeding out all those who refused to abide by the Ten Commandments. It was the younger generation that made it into the Promised Land. The only adults who left Egypt to make it into the Land of Milk and Honey were families of Caleb and Joshua.

I have a feeling it wasn't about the 10 commandments he was weeding but generically they didn't want anything to do with God.

 

[GenemZ]

I have a feeling it wasn't about the 10 commandments he was weeding but generically they didn't want anything to do with God.

The 10 Commandments was only a means. A means to expose that in them.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The 10 Commandments was only a means. A means to expose that in them.

The 10 were a means to preserve a nation until the Messiah would be born though it. If the people had been more like Abraham I don't believe the 10 commandments would have been necessary

 

[GenemZ]

The 10 were a means to preserve a nation until the Messiah would be born though it. If the people had been more like Abraham I don't believe the 10 commandments would have been necessary

I do understand what you were getting at. But, the Ten Commandments were only a small part of the Law.

The Law of Moses actually was given for that means. The 10 C's were not enough. There were no punishments mentioned in the 10's. Punishment is what was used in the Law to keep the people from self destructing.

Galatians 3:19a
​

Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.


​

Grace and peace.....

 

[Elder 111]

Let's add v.27:
And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?

Your selection shows those who don't keep the Law putting those who make their boast in the Law to shame. This is consistent with Paul's determination found in Galatians 6:13 where he wrote "For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh."

If nothing else, I am convinced that you can't read a narrative for what it says. This has happened so many times that you remain in shame for opinions you can't reconcile with the Law you make your boast in.

To remind you of your claims you can't find support for:




In your contentions you violate the Law you make your boast in, by speaking directly contrary to its own testimony from God speaking to Moses. As a seventh-day Adventist you have torn Exodus 31 from your copy of the Bible, and you argue that others should do the same and violate the Law as you do.
Isaiah spoke well of such darkness we are to avoid.

Do you know what fulfill means?
It means to do, to carry out, to comply with. So that in verse 27 it clearly states that the Gentles who complied or carried out the requirements of the Ten Commandments will judge the Jews.
Circumcision has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments!
God is just marvelous!

 

[VictorC]

Do you know what fulfill means?
It means to do, to carry out, to comply with. So that in verse 27 it clearly states that the Gentles who complied or carried out the requirements of the Ten Commandments will judge the Jews.
Circumcision has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments!
God is just marvelous!

Do you realize that you proved my observation to be correct?

If nothing else, I am convinced that you can't read a narrative for what it says. This has happened so many times that you remain in shame for opinions you can't reconcile with the Law you make your boast in.

There is no mention of "Ten Commandments" found anywhere in verse 27:
And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?

And what does the Law say?
Exodus 12
43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: No foreigner shall eat it. 44 But every man’s servant who is bought for money, when you have circumcised him, then he may eat it. 45 A sojourner and a hired servant shall not eat it. 46 In one house it shall be eaten; you shall not carry any of the flesh outside the house, nor shall you break one of its bones. 47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. 48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it.

Your burden of proof is for the sabbath, and you can't seem to remember this. When the High Sabbath comes around, you transgress the Law in order to fabricate a argument of feigned compliance. In the end, you threw away the sabbath and falsified your claims.

To remind you of your claims you can't find support for:

Let me try to put things in perpective as I know and as I accept as a Seventh Day Adventist.

God says keep the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is the test. The tree in the mist of the Garden. That person have to decide on.

Sabbath should be a day of rest and worship as God requires not as SDA's say.

In your contentions you violate the Law you make your boast in, by speaking directly contrary to its own testimony from God speaking to Moses. As a seventh-day Adventist you have torn Exodus 31 from your copy of the Bible, and you argue that others should do the same and violate the Law as you do.