What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

squint · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
You don't know Adventistism an never did. Do you agree or disagree that we as Christians should worship God only? Answer: Yes.

You're barking up the wrong tree with me. I too believe that every jot and tittle of the LAW is in full effect with every believer, with the conclusion being the fact that we are all....OH wait for it...

SINNERS.

Did you know it is actually possible to HOLD UP THE LAW and come to a TRUTHFUL CONCLUSION?

Wow, what A concept?! Imagine that?

You absolutely refuse speak the truth. Who said they is a difference being a SDA sinner or else? You said that if you keep the Sabbath you score points with God? The claim is in your head. Do you not steal to score points with God? So why would you think that other people obey God just to score points? Again, you just don't know Adventist.

True or NOT?

In SDA land, if anyone does not show up for Saturday Sabbath they are SINNING?

I'd just like you to say when exactly it was that you ceased being A SINNER? Or any of the rest of them for that matter.

I'm not aware of any ritualistic practice that makes one sinless.

Perhaps you can point me to that scripture set????

s

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

VictorC said:
You don't know what Adventism's source of doctrine wrote in her writings.

Redemption in Christ means to cease the transgression of the law of God and to be free from every sin. (Faith and Works, p. 95)

There is no safety nor repose nor justification in transgression of the law. Man cannot hope to stand innocent before God, and at peace with Him through the merits of Christ, while he continues in sin. (1 Selected Messages, p. 213)

In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning. (Signs of the Times, March 3, 1888).

Christ died to evidence to the sinner that there was no hope for him while he continued in sin. Obedience to all God's requirements is his only hope for pardon through the blood of Christ. (The Upward Look, p. 189)
This vein of thought continues into modern Adventism as an integral part of your eschatology written into the Sanctuary Doctrine (where you get your Investigative Judgment):

In the last generation God gives the final demonstration that men can keep the law of God and that they can live without sinning. God leaves nothing undone to make the demonstration complete. The only limitation He puts on Satan is that he may not kill the saints of God. He may tempt them, he may harass and threaten them; and he does his best. But he fails. He cannot make them sin. They stand the test, and God puts His seal on them. Through the last generation of saints God stands fully vindicated. (M.L. Andreasen The Sanctuary Service, Review and Herald, 1969 printing, pp. 318-19)
You've seen this last quote before. It is evident that you misrepresent the lunacy codified by Ellen White and the 'church' dependent on her teachings.

So it is your contention that we can have Christ dwelling in our hearts and recieve salvation while still sinning? Is it also your contention that after accepting Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that we can never by the same Holy Spirit live holy lives?
1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Mat 5:
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

VictorC · Dec 25, 2013

VictorC said:
Elder 111 said:

You don't know Seventh Day Adventistism. If you did you would know that they do not conclude and never concluded that one was sinless even if one was completely obedient to God,s holy law. You would also know that they do not believe that salvation is not by the law either. So desist from telling lies on the people.

Click to expand...

You don't know what Adventism's source of doctrine wrote in her writings.

Redemption in Christ means to cease the transgression of the law of God and to be free from every sin. (Faith and Works, p. 95)

There is no safety nor repose nor justification in transgression of the law. Man cannot hope to stand innocent before God, and at peace with Him through the merits of Christ, while he continues in sin. (1 Selected Messages, p. 213)

In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning. (Signs of the Times, March 3, 1888).

Christ died to evidence to the sinner that there was no hope for him while he continued in sin. Obedience to all God's requirements is his only hope for pardon through the blood of Christ. (The Upward Look, p. 189)

This vein of thought continues into modern Adventism as an integral part of your eschatology written into the Sanctuary Doctrine (where you get your Investigative Judgment):

In the last generation God gives the final demonstration that men can keep the law of God and that they can live without sinning. God leaves nothing undone to make the demonstration complete. The only limitation He puts on Satan is that he may not kill the saints of God. He may tempt them, he may harass and threaten them; and he does his best. But he fails. He cannot make them sin. They stand the test, and God puts His seal on them. Through the last generation of saints God stands fully vindicated. (M.L. Andreasen The Sanctuary Service, Review and Herald, 1969 printing, pp. 318-19)

You've seen this last quote before. It is evident that you misrepresent the lunacy codified by Ellen White and the 'church' dependent on her teachings.

Elder 111 said:
So it is your contention that we can have Christ dwelling in our hearts and recieve salvation while still sinning? Is it also your contention that after accepting Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that we can never by the same Holy Spirit live holy lives?
1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Mat 5:
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It is my contention that you lied with every intention to deceive others who might not be familiar with the nature of the seventh-day Adventist 'church'.

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

VictorC said:
Compare this to Elder111's post dated November 22, 2013:

What we have on display is a soteriology based on 'keeping' the old covenant, and a denial of God's redemption. If we were to remove the mention of Jesus we would have the basic tenets of Judaism. I don't see any difference, and this continued rejection of the essential tenets of Christianity is the reason I can't accept the seventh-day Adventist 'church' as anything other than a cult.

I mentions Jesus, you removes Him and then calls Adventist a cult. Marvelous. Just marvelous.

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
The SDA is pretty clear that us other believers who don't show up in the pew on SATURDAY are sinning against GODS LAW/SABBATH and they apparently are not.

So that makes them what then? BETTER SINNERS than other SINNERS?

lol with that angle.

You do realize that it is you that is producing that angle, not a soul else.

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
You're barking up the wrong tree with me. I too believe that every jot and tittle of the LAW is in full effect with every believer, with the conclusion being the fact that we are all....OH wait for it...

SINNERS.

Did you know it is actually possible to HOLD UP THE LAW and come to a TRUTHFUL CONCLUSION?

Wow, what A concept?! Imagine that?

True or NOT?

In SDA land, if anyone does not show up for Saturday Sabbath they are SINNING?

I'd just like you to say when exactly it was that you ceased being A SINNER? Or any of the rest of them for that matter.

I'm not aware of any ritualistic practice that makes one sinless.

Perhaps you can point me to that scripture set????

s

You just don't get it! you are barking up a tree that I am not in! I have never made any of your claims and have never heard of them in Adventism.

VictorC · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
I mentions Jesus, you removes Him and then calls Adventist a cult. Marvelous. Just marvelous.

Mormons mention Jesus.
Jehovah's Witnesses mention Jesus.
Several new-age cults mention Jesus.
But like the seventh-day Adventists, they have no use for Jesus having rejected His redemption. And it is not only your source documents that condemn Adventism, but your posts that align with them as well.

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

Are we discussing the SDA church or the biblical teachings on God's Holy law? I mean If the teachings of the SDA church fully representative of the biblical teachings I suppose that might be OK.

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

VictorC said:
Mormons mention Jesus.
Jehovah's Witnesses mention Jesus.
Several new-age cults mention Jesus.
But like the seventh-day Adventists, they have no use for Jesus having rejected His redemption. And it is not only your source documents that condemn Adventism, but your posts that align with them as well.

I spoke of what you did. Blatantly so to make an unsustainable point.

squint · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
You just don't get it! you are barking up a tree that I am not in! I have never made any of your claims and have never heard of them in Adventism.

They are on record here for this:

That if anyone claims to be a believer and doesn't do Saturday Sabbath such believers are in fact breaking that command and are therefore sinning and standing in the way of possible eternal death.

You are certainly welcome to address this matter. Anyone should be well able to see the nonsense that implies, as if they changed their status as factual sinners by 'obeying the Law?'

uh, that would be a NO.

s

GenemZ · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
Go back and tell me how many times I've cited 1 John 3:8 to establish the link between sin and the DEVIL.

The fact is they are linked. I understand that conclusion is not well received, but again, the words are not going away anytime soon.

That is simply your conclusion. You CHOSEN conclusion. A very literally skewed one. There is nothing in that verse that states the devil joins us in experiencing our sin. Nothing like that at all. It just means we belong to the devil's club.

1 John 3:8

the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

First of all., Its not speaking simply of sin. Its speaks of a believer who practices (chain sins) ...

You wouldn't be the first person to reject that linkage.

Your linkage that you impose upon what it does not teach.

How many times do you need to hear that Paul had evil present with him? Romans 7:21. How many times do you need to read 2 Cor. 12:7 to see that Paul himself had a 'messenger of SATAN' in his own flesh?

You have no idea what that passage teaches if you can draw that conclusion. God sent Paul a thorn in his flesh so that Paul could remain humble after being shown unspeakable glories he was granted to see in heaven. Paul said that he could have become arrogantly elated if God did not do something to bring Paul back down to earth..

How many times do you need to hear that Paul had temptation in his own flesh? Galatians 4:14.

You're smarter than that. It says no such thing.

Galatians 4:14

And even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn.
Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.

How many times would Paul have to tell you that the sin that indwelt him was NOT him. Romans 7:17-20.

YES! That is because the sin was indwelling his FLESH! It was not him, because our flesh was crucified with Christ! We should count our flesh as dead! Its no longer us that sin, but sin that indwells our flesh via the sin nature we inherited from the fall of Adam! Come on now! You're not stupid.

How many times do you have to read Romans 7 in general to understand that when the LAW came to Paul that every manner of concupiscence transpired within his MIND? How many times will Paul have to say that he was the chief of sinners after salvation? 1 Tim. 1:15.

If there were no Law? There would be nothing to contrast men from one another. For all mankind universally sins by nature from birth. Without the Law sin would have been viewed as simply being a normal expression of being human. The Law was given so that our sin would be confronted at the point of a sword and defined. So that sin could be isolated and exposed for what it is.

As far as Paul?..

It would be like asking Paul about his salvation. Paul's response?

"You're looking at the Chief of Sinners that God has saved by grace!"

Now..

Stop playing cleverly dense. For, after the novelty of what you have to say, wears off? You become an annoying drag. And, its not annoying because you are telling us something we do not want to hear (as you love to claim.) But, for acting so stupid, while demanding we take you seriously. Personally, I think its only an act. For no one can be that stupid.

squint · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
So it is your contention that we can have Christ dwelling in our hearts and recieve salvation while still sinning?

I'd just like to know the formulas applied to make you sinless?

VictorC · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
Are we discussing the SDA church or the biblical teachings on God's Holy law? I mean If the teachings of the SDA church fully representative of the biblical teachings I suppose that might be OK.

We've watched you openly reject the commandments of God. We know you're a member of the SDA church. If this is what you want us to learn from your posts, I guess that's okay.

squint · Dec 25, 2013

genez said:
That is simply your conclusion. You CHOSEN conclusion.

I'd suggest that if you don't think that believers are tempted by the tempter and that temptation transpires within the MIND, we're probably reading different Bibles.

s

VictorC · Dec 25, 2013

What we have on display is a soteriology based on 'keeping' the old covenant, and a denial of God's redemption. If we were to remove the mention of Jesus we would have the basic tenets of Judaism. I don't see any difference, and this continued rejection of the essential tenets of Christianity is the reason I can't accept the seventh-day Adventist 'church' as anything other than a cult.

Elder 111 said:
I spoke of what you did. Blatantly so to make an unsustainable point.

This reaches to a delusion I don't recognize. Maybe it is the product of illiteracy borne by slapping the label 'Christianity' onto the practice of Judaism.

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
They are on record here for this:

That if anyone claims to be a believer and doesn't do Saturday Sabbath such believers are in fact breaking that command and are therefore sinning and standing in the way of possible eternal death.

You are certainly welcome to address this matter. Anyone should be well able to see the nonsense that implies, as if they changed their status as factual sinners by 'obeying the Law?'

uh, that would be a NO.

s

You are still doing it. Look at the highlighted portion. Who implied! You did not me.

squint · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
You are still doing it. Look at the highlighted portion. Who implied! You did not me.

Just go on record and clear it up then.

Saturday Sabbath attendance mandatory for all believers or they are sinning?

It's a yes or no question.

s

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

Originally Posted by Elder 111

My brother that is the first Commandment. Now am I ill willed in saying that all who break this commandment will be subject to death? Am I evil to say that that is a sin and that God will destroy all sinners?

Now the Sabbath. Just you did not know it forms part of the Ten Commandments and is a sin just as breaking the first. Sorry but SDA's did not write it there, God did. Will anyone who break the other 9 see heaven? NO!

Compare this to Elder111's post dated November 22, 2013:

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Salvation is by Jesus and His Ten commandments, if you have a problem with that take up with Jesus Himself.

VictorC said:
Compare this to Elder111's post dated November 22, 2013:

What we have on display is a soteriology based on 'keeping' the old covenant, and a denial of God's redemption. If we were to remove the mention of Jesus we would have the basic tenets of Judaism. I don't see any difference, and this continued rejection of the essential tenets of Christianity is the reason I can't accept the seventh-day Adventist 'church' as anything other than a cult.

Originally Posted by Elder 111

I spoke of what you did. Blatantly so to make an unsustainable point.

VictorC said:
This reaches to a delusion I don't recognize. Maybe it is the product of illiteracy.

If my illiteracy is in the way please show me, or maybe some one else can help. Did you or did you not seek to ignore the mention of Jesus, (or had to) in making your substantive point above (the red will help)?

GenemZ · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
I'd suggest that if you don't think that believers are tempted by the tempter and that temptation transpires within the MIND, we're probably reading different Bibles.

s

There is another open statement by the Squint that goes nowhere in a hurry. You leave too much up to the imagination... not the facts.

I think you are drawing near to the Ignore feature. For you do not think and analyze accurately. You are only like a pre-programmed sound bite machine set to say the same thing, no matter what the evidence may be.

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
Just go on record and clear it up then.

Saturday Sabbath attendance mandatory for all believers or they are sinning?

It's a yes or no question.

s

Sabbath should be a day of rest and worship as God requires not as SDA's say.

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