I am actually wondering...
Set your troubled heart at rest, and quit wondering!
All dimensions of the heavens, earth & underworld are destined to be IN/EN Him.
The all and all of ta panta !
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I am actually wondering...
Because they aren't relevant to how many people will be saved. I could ask the same if just a select group was saved: why did God let sin reign from this time in history bla bla bla...?
Set your troubled heart at rest, and quit wondering! All dimensions of the heavens, earth & underworld are destined to be IN/EN Him.
The all and all of ta panta !
That is the problem. It is not biblical which is a problem for those who believe this wayBy the hardcore universalists in this forum then, they are saved.
LoveGodsWord, have read thr., the many post on this thread. You have done a great job by posting all those texts in support, that the wicked shall be destroyed at christ coming. You and I understand too, that they shall be raised again at the end of the thousand years/sabbath millenium to be present at the great white throne judgement. (Rev.20:11-15)
What is your understanding of God's purpose for this judgement?
P.S. Were you affected by the dreadful fires last year?
Hi Tim, nice to see you again.
The fires were down in the southern states of Australia I am in the north so God kept us safe where we are living. Thanks for asking. That said Australia has never experienced anything like this in the past. It was devastating. The worst on record. I found this quite amazing because Most of the world look to Australian tech and help in being able to control bushfires as we have them most years and are able to control them very well. This one however only went to show us how helpless we are even with our so called technologies. The only way these fires subsided was when the weather changed and God decided to put them out. Not long after we have COVID-19 which is still devastating the world. If these are not wake up calls from our God I do not know what else is.
Judgment is happening now in the heavenly Sanctuary according to the scriptures where the cases of all the dead and eventually the living will pass before God. Those found in the lambs book of life (those who have accepted Christ is their personal Lord and Savior and believe and follow His Word) will receive eternal life while those found not written in the lambs book of life (unrepentant wicked) will receive the second death in the lake of fire. Happy to discuss the detail Tim if you like. I just did not want to make this one too long.
In my view of the scriptures, God is a God of love and mercy as well as a God of justice and judgment. It is Universalism that limits God and does not understand the love of God by denying the justice and judgment of God for sin. If there was no justice and judgment for sin then Jesus did not have to die for the sins of the World. Those teaching of those who do not accept that God is also a God of justice and judgment make a mockery of the cross of Christ which is where God's justice and judgment for sin reveals God's great love and mercy for all mankind. If you do away with God's justice and judgment for sin you do away with the love of God which is the only place where Gods' great love for mankind is revealed. For God's great love is revealed in his justice and judgment for sin in sending his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlating life. It is the cross of Jesus in God sending his only begotten son into our world to die for the sins of the whole world where Gods' love is seen.
Gods' love is revealed in his justice and judgment but universalism says no... God is not a God of justice and judgement but love and mercy but it is only in the cross of JESUS and his spilt blood for all mankind and his sacrifice for sin in receiveing God's justice and judgment so that we can be reconcilled to God where Gods' great love is revealed to all mankind. I have only come across the teachings of Universalism recently but now see it as the same teachings of the sepent in the Garden of lies saying to Eve you can deny God's Word and will not surely die when God says in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die.
What is your understanding of God's purpose for this judgement?
Hi Tim, I did not say there was only one book (book of life). I only stated that it is those written in the lambs book of life that receive eternal life so (e.g. Revelation 21:15) perhaps there is a misunderstanding in regards to what I wrote earlier. Sorry if that was the case. I do agree that there is more than one book (e.g. book of life, book of rememberance, book of deeds).LoveGodsWord, be happy to share my understanding, however, before I do, I would like better to understand you understanding of the GWT judgement. So I have a few more specific questions.
1) The saints sit with Christ in judgement during the thousand years, (Rev.20:4) what is this about? Note in this passage, that they were not judged from the book of Life as you have stated, but from the books (plural). According to (Rev. 20:11-12) All of the wicked who have ever lived will be standing before God's throne. It states the books (plural) were opened first, then the book of life was opened. It says the wicked were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books (plural). I understand these would be the books of deeds that recording angles have recorded of each sinner, and it is these books that Jesus viewed during the pre-advent judgement to decide if individuals received eternal life or not, prior to His return.
As posted earlier, I beleive according to the scriptures that "the book of life" is the record of God's saints that have passed from death to life who have overcome sin and the world and have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb *Revelation 12:11; Revelation 21:7-8 and believe and follow God's Word *John 10:26-27; John 3:16 and keep his commandments *Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4.2) Based on a, "thus saith the Lord" What then, do you think is the purpose of the Book of Life?
I have not heard before that the book of the seven seals are the lambs book of life. Out of it proceeds the seven seals and the judgments of God (death). For me I am not sure if the seven seals are a part of the lambs "book of life" or a separate book as it is not clear that it is or is not in my view.3) Do you believe this is the same book the Father gave the Lamb in (Rev. 5) sealed with seven seals, and is the same book John latter refers to as, "the Lamb's book of Life, (Rev.13:8; 21:27)?
Have not heard of the campfires Tim. Sounds like it was a bad one though. I pray God will keep you safe. Are you safe from COVID-19? Seems bad in the US at the moment.P.S. I live in N California, lots of fires every year. Have you heard of the Camp Fire, which burned nearly two years ago, claimed 85 individuals, and 4,000 structures? I'm 75 miles south of there.
Hi Tim, I did not say there was more than one book. I only stated that it is those written in the lambs book of life that receive eternal life so (e.g. Revelation 21:15) perhaps there is a misunderstanding in regards to what I wrote earlier. Sorry of that was the case. I do agree that there is more than one book (e.g. book of life, book of rememberance book of deeds).
As posted earlier, I beleive according to the scriptures that "the book of life" is the record of God's saints that have passed from death to life who have overcome sin and the world and have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb *Revelation 12:11; Revelation 21:7-8 and believe and follow God's Word *John 10:26-27; John 3:16 and keep his commandments *Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4.
I have not heard before that the book of the seven seals are the lambs book of life. Out of it proceeds the seven seals and the judgments of God (death). For me I am not sure if the seven seals are a part of the lambs "book of life" or a separate book as it is not clear that it is or is not in my view.
Have not heard of the campfires Tim. Sounds like it was a bad one though. I pray God will keep you safe. Are you safe from COVID-19? Seems bad in the US at the moment.
God bless.
Hmm no takers for these questions?
Context to my post was me wondering about the teachings of Universalism, not the bible. I know what God's Word says. I am actually wondering as are others why "Universalists" think Satan and one third of heavens angles were cast out of heaven for their rebellion.
Why was Adam and Eve given a test of faith with regard to the forbidden tree?
And why God would allow six thousand years of sin with all of it's unimaginable suffering on His creation, and in the end save everyone, those with faith, and those without faith?
If Paul was convinced that all mankind would be saved, no matter what, even after death he spent an inordinate amount of time warning the Roman church just the opposite....
Well I think Paul gives us a good 'nutshell' summary:
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. (Rom 8:20-21)...
Before, I share what I believe on the GWT judgement, would you give your response on the first question of my earlier post. Got to run, riding out with friends for breakfast and a short ride before the tempts reach 100. Be in touch latter.
I see, so he has taken a break, sooo why is that I wonder?Better late than never, LGWSDA. Our brother Fine is taking a short break, but watch this space DV.
Your response here...LoveGodsWord wrote: I am actually wondering as are others why "Universalists" think Satan and one third of heavens angles were cast out of heaven for their rebellion. Why was Adam and Eve given a test of faith with regard to the forbidden tree? And why God would allow six thousand years of sin with all of it's unimaginable suffering on His creation, and in the end save everyone, those with faith, and those without faith? Why then is God allowing sin to rein from the time that He created the angles?
The answer is indeed 'for their rebellion'. Is that a trick question? But how glorious would it be to see those bad boys on their knees confessing before God and repenting in sackcloth and ashes? Or would you rather just see them all toasted?
Well I think Paul gives us a good 'nutshell' summary:
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. (Rom 8:20-21)
It's a lesson in hope, faith and love. It's for God's glory, that He can bring all to faith by the revelation of His righteous acts.
And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, "Great and marvelous are Your works, O Lord God, the Almighty; Righteous and true are Your ways, King of the nations! "Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED." (Rev 15:3-4)
Clear enough?
I see, so he has taken a break, sooo why is that I wonder?
Hmm so in your view everyone gets a free pass to Heaven regardless of believing and following God's Word or not believing and following God's Word.
Those who believe and follow Gods' Word need to suffer as much as the wicked and God (according to the teachings of Universalism) makes all suffer until they repent and those who do not repent he forces into repentance after the second coming in the lake of fire until God forces them into following him through torture?
I agree with what you have said, but for more clarity I would add, this is a judgement to determine the time that each sinner must serve in hell, based on the wrongs they committed against their neighbors and God.Well to be honest this one is possibly best for another thread. Why not open one send me the link and we can discuss it in detail to do the topic some justice? But briefly here, of course this is in reference to the 1000 years of peace at the second coming, where the Saints will take part in the judgment of the wicked before the second resurrection where the wicked will be destroyed in the lake of fire. Hope your bike ride was a good one!
God bless
Many are going to be toasted, whatever you may think, for a longer or shorter time but toasted in the lake of fire. I wonder how they are going to repent in sack cloth and ashes. Will someone be giving that away in the LOF?....
The answer is indeed 'for their rebellion'. Is that a trick question? But how glorious would it be to see those bad boys on their knees confessing before God and repenting in sackcloth and ashes? Or would you rather just see them all toasted?
"In hope that the creation itself also will be set free..." NOT in certainty!Well I think Paul gives us a good 'nutshell' summary:
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. (Rom 8:20-21)It's a lesson in hope, faith and love. It's for God's glory, that He can bring all to faith by the revelation of His righteous acts.
And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, "Great and marvelous are Your works, O Lord God, the Almighty; Righteous and true are Your ways, King of the nations! "Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For. ALL THE NATIONS .WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED."
There are no, zero, none nations in the grave/hell/lake of fire. Rev 15:3-4 can only refer to nations which will exist at that time. This does not refer to the dead in the grave./hell/the lake of fire.(Rev 15:3-4)
Clear enough?
LoveGodsWord, having shared with you in my last post on how I understand the sentencing portion of the judgement of the lost during the 1000 years, I will now move on to what I understand about the Great White Throne Judgement (Rev. 20:11-15).
I will start first by posting the attached link, sharing insights into the trinity that I think you will find, amazingly insightful! These insights lays the foundation of why the GWTJ has been predetermined.
Untold Story of Jesus - Three Roles of the Godhead Decided - Chapter 3
LoveGodsWord, what does TOC stand for?Hi Tim thanks for your thoughts. I am having trouble opening your link. All I get is like a TOC list. The website does not open up properly.
God bless.