No...God gave us the ability to choose, He didn't create us to sin. If we choose Him, ultimately we will get Him. If we choose ourselves, then we will spend eternity living with that choice as well.
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What happens to non-Christians when they die?
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God is all-knowing and He never makes mistakes. So, if we are sinful, that's exactly what God wanted. If that is not what God wanted, then He made a mistake. If He makes mistakes, why call him God?
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no one is in the position to say who will go to hell
whether a christian or any other religion
it is all up to god and oneself
we shall never conclude who will go to hell
for it is possible for a hindu or a buddhist to go to heaven then a christian
whether a christian or any other religion
it is all up to god and oneself
we shall never conclude who will go to hell
for it is possible for a hindu or a buddhist to go to heaven then a christian
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jrmorganjr
Paladin
niwde,
On what absolute authority and divine revelation are you basing your claims? Are you stating that all religions are equally valid and have equal claims to truth?
I mean, I sort of agree, do to the nebulousness of your statements, with the first 3 lines, but I think a meaningful discussion over the 4th & 5th could be had. Since you do grant there's a hell in your statements, I think anyone who actively denies God will end up there. One could be fairly confident of this, to a human level of precision.
I have it on divine authority that you must go through Christ to get to heaven. Can a Hindu or Buddhist do that? I kinda doubt it, I suppose there could be exceptions. I mean, Buddhism is really more of a philosophy more than a religion, so I suppose you could believe and be involved in both Buddhism & Christianity at some level, if you didn't feel a need for consistency. I think it would be very difficult to reconcile Hindu with Christianity at all, though, and so from a Christian standpoint, they are on extremely shaky ground.
On what absolute authority and divine revelation are you basing your claims? Are you stating that all religions are equally valid and have equal claims to truth?
I mean, I sort of agree, do to the nebulousness of your statements, with the first 3 lines, but I think a meaningful discussion over the 4th & 5th could be had. Since you do grant there's a hell in your statements, I think anyone who actively denies God will end up there. One could be fairly confident of this, to a human level of precision.
I have it on divine authority that you must go through Christ to get to heaven. Can a Hindu or Buddhist do that? I kinda doubt it, I suppose there could be exceptions. I mean, Buddhism is really more of a philosophy more than a religion, so I suppose you could believe and be involved in both Buddhism & Christianity at some level, if you didn't feel a need for consistency. I think it would be very difficult to reconcile Hindu with Christianity at all, though, and so from a Christian standpoint, they are on extremely shaky ground.
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u said that people who actively deny god go to hell
but i do not think that hindus and buddhist deny the exsistence of god
if u say that all non christian go to hell
tell me if i was a native american or a japanese in the 5th century
will i go to hell
most possibly i do not even know a guy named jesus
does this mean i go to hell
come on be logical
it is not u r me to say who will go to hell
a buddhist or a muslim can be more worthier to go to heaven then certain christians
those who go to hell r those people who stand in front of god and say "i do not want u god"
they openly reject god's love,those r the ones who will go there
there is no point of quoting verses from the bible
for the knowledge of god r far more greater then the bible
the bible contains only a little bit of accounts
that include the four gospels
i believe that the bible is true but it is not all the knowledge of god
it is just a tiny bit
it is impossible to put what christ said on earth or the knowledge of god into books
it doesn't have the capacity
the bible can be a dangerous weapon also
for example, take a book and face it straigth at u(the surface)and ask a friend to stand on the other side
ask them what u see and what they see
that goes the same for the bible
for example the verse about "when u hand causes u to sin,cut it off" i see it in a different way
but some people may see it in a different perspective
that is y u need the same interpretation
which is very rare in certain denomination
u cannot make someone to accept ur views because it is the "human rights" age
i am free to do anyhing
that is y there is so many denominations
but i do not think that hindus and buddhist deny the exsistence of god
if u say that all non christian go to hell
tell me if i was a native american or a japanese in the 5th century
will i go to hell
most possibly i do not even know a guy named jesus
does this mean i go to hell
come on be logical
it is not u r me to say who will go to hell
a buddhist or a muslim can be more worthier to go to heaven then certain christians
those who go to hell r those people who stand in front of god and say "i do not want u god"
they openly reject god's love,those r the ones who will go there
there is no point of quoting verses from the bible
for the knowledge of god r far more greater then the bible
the bible contains only a little bit of accounts
that include the four gospels
i believe that the bible is true but it is not all the knowledge of god
it is just a tiny bit
it is impossible to put what christ said on earth or the knowledge of god into books
it doesn't have the capacity
the bible can be a dangerous weapon also
for example, take a book and face it straigth at u(the surface)and ask a friend to stand on the other side
ask them what u see and what they see
that goes the same for the bible
for example the verse about "when u hand causes u to sin,cut it off" i see it in a different way
but some people may see it in a different perspective
that is y u need the same interpretation
which is very rare in certain denomination
u cannot make someone to accept ur views because it is the "human rights" age
i am free to do anyhing
that is y there is so many denominations
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jrmorganjr
Paladin
I don't know what happens to people who have never heard of Jesus. I do know they're reponsible for the light God does give them, and I also know they have to go through Christ in some fashion to get into heaven. The details aren't given. Your idea that someone is "worthier" to go into heaven is a human idea. God has revealed in the Bible that noone is worthy enough for heaven save Christ, so relative worthiness doesn't get you anywhere. You have to be covered in Christ's blood to be worthy.
I agree with you that those who say they do not want God will get their wish. I made that point before, I believe.
Your argument about God being bigger than the Bible doesn't mean that the Bible itself isn't 100% accurate. You seem to be saying that since God is bigger, we should look at other sources or authorities. Like what? Our faulty selves?
The Bible is indeed a sharp sword, cutting the hearts of men. There is always the problem of interpretation, I agree, but most things are fairly well agreed upon between denominations. We just stridently highlight the differences, hopefully recognizing that our salvation, in most cases, isn't dependent on them and that we are all brothers in Christ.
You never could, nor does Christ ask us to. He asks us to invite others to come taste for themselves, whether He is good or not. And that one should reckon the costs before committing to God. It is voluntary. I do not seek to force anyone to my views. I point them to God, and do my best to be God's prophet, as the spirit leads, with gentleness and kindness, but with Truth.
It is truth that those without Christ have no hope of salvation. We may not agree on what "being without Christ" means, but this truth is directly from God's word to our ears.
I agree with you that those who say they do not want God will get their wish. I made that point before, I believe.
Your argument about God being bigger than the Bible doesn't mean that the Bible itself isn't 100% accurate. You seem to be saying that since God is bigger, we should look at other sources or authorities. Like what? Our faulty selves?
The Bible is indeed a sharp sword, cutting the hearts of men. There is always the problem of interpretation, I agree, but most things are fairly well agreed upon between denominations. We just stridently highlight the differences, hopefully recognizing that our salvation, in most cases, isn't dependent on them and that we are all brothers in Christ.
You never could, nor does Christ ask us to. He asks us to invite others to come taste for themselves, whether He is good or not. And that one should reckon the costs before committing to God. It is voluntary. I do not seek to force anyone to my views. I point them to God, and do my best to be God's prophet, as the spirit leads, with gentleness and kindness, but with Truth.
It is truth that those without Christ have no hope of salvation. We may not agree on what "being without Christ" means, but this truth is directly from God's word to our ears.
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supermagdalena
The Shrubs and the Flan.
niwde: Jesus said, "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE light." Not, "I am one of the ways, one of the truths and one of the lights."
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Neo, I would say it was we who made the mistake in abusing the freedom God gave us. Would God truly have loved us had he not given us perfect freedom, even though it meant we could reject Him? I think not.
Allowing us the freedom to reject even the very source of our life was a great gift. Did God know it would happen? Yes. So why did He allow it? Because He loved us.
In a manner of speaking, Hell only exists for us because we want it to. There would be no need for it had we not wanted to reject God. He is only giving us what we ask for.
Neal
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Well, need to remember that the existance of hell is not for us human, but for the fallen angels and Lucifier (the devil). We are not mend to be there but as we follow the way of the devil by sinning against God again and again, then, we become the followers of the devil and as we follow the devil's way, we go to where the devil will be.
jp-I don't want to be there
jp-I don't want to be there
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I could not but to agree. Christian and the rest has no right to said who will go to hell. It is God alone. I definitely agree on that.
But - the real question is that, do you know which is the true GOD that will gives that judgement?
All the postings here are not from Christians themselves but solemnly according to the written BIBLE which has existed 2000 years ago. WORD which Christian's faith is on and faith to believe it is from GOD.
Hinduism and Buddism asked people to do good... but, the fact is, can the goodness redeems the badness that we have commited? A question, we need to answer ourselves...
jp
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I KNOW THA T THE BIBLE IS THE WHOLE TRUTH BUT IT DOESN'T CONTAIN ALL THAT IS KNOWLEDGE OF GOD
I KNOW THAT JESUS IS ONLY THE WAY TO SALVATION
DOES THIS MEANS THAT GOOD TIBETAN MONKS DO NOT GET SALVATION
IF U SAY THEY DO NOT
WHO R WE TO SAY THEY DO NOT
SO WE SHALL NEVER CONCLUDE WHO CAN GO TO HEAVEN AND WHO CANNOT GO TO HEAVEN
for it is surprising for some people of the religion can go to heaven
I KNOW THAT JESUS IS ONLY THE WAY TO SALVATION
DOES THIS MEANS THAT GOOD TIBETAN MONKS DO NOT GET SALVATION
IF U SAY THEY DO NOT
WHO R WE TO SAY THEY DO NOT
SO WE SHALL NEVER CONCLUDE WHO CAN GO TO HEAVEN AND WHO CANNOT GO TO HEAVEN
for it is surprising for some people of the religion can go to heaven
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SO WE SHALL NEVER CONCLUDE WHO CAN GO TO HEAVEN AND WHO CANNOT GO TO HEAVEN
I'm with you, niwide. I don't even like referring to people as 'saved' or 'unsaved'. To me that puts a determination on their soul that I feel I am under-qualified to make...to say the least.
And even if a person is lost at one point in their life.. doesn't mean they will always be.
Michelle
I'm with you, niwide. I don't even like referring to people as 'saved' or 'unsaved'. To me that puts a determination on their soul that I feel I am under-qualified to make...to say the least.
And even if a person is lost at one point in their life.. doesn't mean they will always be.
Michelle
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I don't believe that I can absolutely know whether a person will go to Heaven or Hell. But I believe I can develop a reasonable certainty as to who is saved by the indicators that God gives as to who He has elected for salvation and who He has chosen for reprobation. "You will know them by their fruit."
I also say that if God regenerates a person, and if that person hears the Gospel, they WILL react positively, because God has put a new heart and a new nature in that person, making him able to be receptive to His Word through the Holy Spirit.
I also say that if God regenerates a person, and if that person hears the Gospel, they WILL react positively, because God has put a new heart and a new nature in that person, making him able to be receptive to His Word through the Holy Spirit.
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jrmorganjr
Paladin
I'm with Humble Joe on this. As I posted earler, we can know to a human precision who is very likely to be saved and who is not, we have to be wise enough to say there's a gray area where we shouldn't comment, and wise enough to say that it's subject to change.
"Judge not lest ye be judged" is probably the most misunderstood and taken out of context scripture today. Compare that with Lv 19:17 : "Rebuke your neighbor, lest ye share in his guilt." We shouldn't be given to being judgemental, but we are to judge/discern fruit, with gentleness and compassion, and with a heart for doing God's will.
"Judge not lest ye be judged" is probably the most misunderstood and taken out of context scripture today. Compare that with Lv 19:17 : "Rebuke your neighbor, lest ye share in his guilt." We shouldn't be given to being judgemental, but we are to judge/discern fruit, with gentleness and compassion, and with a heart for doing God's will.
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VOW
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I think God is going to be much more compassionate, much more loving, much more understanding that we could ever comprehend. It isn't our place to sit in judgment, even PAUL said that he wasn't capable of judging.
We have no concept, and we have no capacity to know the plans of God. He is not responsible for the evil in our world, but He has the ability to salvage good from any evil. And He also has an overpowering love to comfort the victims of evil, as well.
The arguments of "How can God do this?" or "Why did God create that?" are meaningless, because we cannot grasp His omnipotence. Think of an ant trying to explain space travel.
There IS an Eternity waiting for all of us, of that I have no doubt. You cannot destroy matter, you cannot destroy energy, so the "whatever" we have within us which makes us ALIVE won't be destroyed either. It goes SOMEPLACE.
I believe in God. To me, there is too much evidence to DISBELEIVE. I believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, and of the sacrifice Jesus made for our sins. I'll share my faith with anyone. But I intend on leaving the judgment up to God. That's part of His job duty description, not mine.
Peace be with you,
~VOW
We have no concept, and we have no capacity to know the plans of God. He is not responsible for the evil in our world, but He has the ability to salvage good from any evil. And He also has an overpowering love to comfort the victims of evil, as well.
The arguments of "How can God do this?" or "Why did God create that?" are meaningless, because we cannot grasp His omnipotence. Think of an ant trying to explain space travel.
There IS an Eternity waiting for all of us, of that I have no doubt. You cannot destroy matter, you cannot destroy energy, so the "whatever" we have within us which makes us ALIVE won't be destroyed either. It goes SOMEPLACE.
I believe in God. To me, there is too much evidence to DISBELEIVE. I believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, and of the sacrifice Jesus made for our sins. I'll share my faith with anyone. But I intend on leaving the judgment up to God. That's part of His job duty description, not mine.
Peace be with you,
~VOW
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jrmorganjr
Paladin
How do you reconcile that general approach with the Levitical commandment? Obviously, we can't rebuke without judging. Are you confusing The Judgement with judging in general?
I'm certainly not talking about judging the state of someone's soul, I'm talking about what we do with our kids: "What you did was wrong, son, and here's why." Or at work: "You're gossiping is hurting this person, please stop." Or with friends: "Please stop cursing God, you're only hurting yourself and it bothers me."
These are all judgements. We should refrain from this sort of activity?
No. There's a clear dividing line between judging the state of the soul and judging the fruits/results of what we discern through observation in people around us, guided by the Spirit & His Word.
I'm certainly not talking about judging the state of someone's soul, I'm talking about what we do with our kids: "What you did was wrong, son, and here's why." Or at work: "You're gossiping is hurting this person, please stop." Or with friends: "Please stop cursing God, you're only hurting yourself and it bothers me."
These are all judgements. We should refrain from this sort of activity?
No. There's a clear dividing line between judging the state of the soul and judging the fruits/results of what we discern through observation in people around us, guided by the Spirit & His Word.
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VOW
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To Jr:
We are to correct our children, because that is the job of parents. As for "correcting" your friends, it depends upon the type of friendship you have. I would phrase it differently than you did, something like, "I'm uncomfortable with someone cursing God. Can we express our unhappiness another way, please?"
I have a problem with "supposed" good Christians who sit in sanctimonious judgment and say, "I saw him coming out of a strip club, he's going to Hell," or "She bought a case of Scotch at the market, she can't be saved." Or even, "If Hitler had truly accepted Jesus into his heart, he wouldn't have killed all those Jews."
I don't feel we have any business making judgments like that.
Peace be with you,
~VOW
We are to correct our children, because that is the job of parents. As for "correcting" your friends, it depends upon the type of friendship you have. I would phrase it differently than you did, something like, "I'm uncomfortable with someone cursing God. Can we express our unhappiness another way, please?"
I have a problem with "supposed" good Christians who sit in sanctimonious judgment and say, "I saw him coming out of a strip club, he's going to Hell," or "She bought a case of Scotch at the market, she can't be saved." Or even, "If Hitler had truly accepted Jesus into his heart, he wouldn't have killed all those Jews."
I don't feel we have any business making judgments like that.
Peace be with you,
~VOW
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jrmorganjr
Paladin
Then we're pretty much in agreement, VOW, but we're kinda speaking different languages. I agree that we shouldn't categorically judge the state of someone's soul. But we can judge actions and results, and we shouldn't ever tie that to the state of their soul.
And sanctimoniousness is way out. Kill that stuff, lock it up, throw it out, restock on humility & grace.
Grace & Peace to you in Christ,
And sanctimoniousness is way out. Kill that stuff, lock it up, throw it out, restock on humility & grace.
Grace & Peace to you in Christ,
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. I agree that we shouldn't categorically judge the state of someone's soul.
When we refer to people as 'saved' or 'unsaved' are we categorically judging the state of someone's soul?
Michelle
When we refer to people as 'saved' or 'unsaved' are we categorically judging the state of someone's soul?
Michelle
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