LDS What happens to ex-Mormon men?

[RoseCrystal]

And if this verse were talking about the Catholic Church and the Catholic priesthood, you would agree with it? (Note: we're talking about a big infraction here, not something like ditching church).

Obviously I'm not a mind reader, but I think the answer to that question is "yes". (Please correct me if I'm wrong). Hence this disagreement isn't really about the verse itself, but your belief that Catholic priesthood is Christ's priesthood and not the LDS one. And that's fine for you to think --- I honestly respect such a perspective.

NO this disagreement has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Catholic Church, the LDS view of what a priest is is totally different to the Catholic view of what a priest is. I'm certainly not going to entertain a hypothetical question about an LDS Scripture on the assumption that the Catholic Church would agree or even entertain such a viewpoint - I find that completely ridiculous and won't have anything to do with it.

Again, this is about the LDS view of men who turn their back on the LDS priesthood, not Christianity altogether but simply the LDS priesthood. NOTHING to do with Catholicism AT ALL.

I'm not going to engage any further in this with you, I really don't see the point.

Doctrine and Covenants 84
40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84?lang=eng

 

[Jane_Doe]

NO this disagreement has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Catholic Church, the LDS view of what a priest is is totally different to the Catholic view of what a priest is. I'm certainly not going to entertain a hypothetical question about an LDS Scripture on the assumption that the Catholic Church would agree or even entertain such a viewpoint - I find that completely ridiculous and won't have anything to do with it.

Again, this is about the LDS view of men who turn their back on the LDS priesthood, not Christianity altogether but simply the LDS priesthood. NOTHING to do with Catholicism AT ALL.

I'm not going to engage any further in this with you, I really don't see the point.

Doctrine and Covenants 84
40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84?lang=eng

I am asking an question honestly trying to understand your perspective. If you're not interested in such a conversation, that's your choice.

 

[RoseCrystal]

I am asking an question honestly trying to understand your perspective. If you're not interested in such a conversation, that's your choice.

I've been EXTREMELY CLEAR about my perspective, again, I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Rescued One]

Does your Bible not read:
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. ( Matthew 12:31)

To be clear: what is being talked about here is abandoning Christ and blasphemy against God's witness, like in Matthew 12:31. We're not talking about just ditching church.

Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is not going from one Christian church to another.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I've been EXTREMELY CLEAR about my perspective, again, I'm done with this conversation.

Ok. Have a nice day

 

[Rescued One]

The much larger barrier for ex-LDS persons becoming Nicene Christians is a past negative history with Nicene Christians behaving certain un-Christ-like ways towards LDS folks. It leaves a VERY negative impression that lingers and repels folks from those groups.

Oh, now you're attacking people instead of addressing Mormonism. Do you have a negative impression of Nicene Christians? That doesn't mean that all ex-Mormons do.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Oh, now you're attacking people instead of addressing Mormonism. Do you have a negative impression of Nicene Christians? That doesn't mean that all ex-Mormons do.

I'm not attacking anyone, just stating an observation. Seesh.

That's not what the scripture says. My late husband left your church and priesthood and went back to being a Protestant.
<Jane snip for length>

You don't officially speak for the Mormon church. You accuse people of providing misinformation, but aren't willing to prove it.

More misinformation I have already addressed in this very thread.

 

[He is the way]

That's not what the scripture says. My late husband left your church and priesthood and went back to being a Protestant.

Granted, Mormonism teaches that anyone who rejects Mormonism rejects Christ.

Doctrine and Covenants 84
35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;

36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;

37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;


https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84?lang=eng



You don't officially speak for the Mormon church. You accuse people of providing misinformation, but aren't willing to prove it.

(New Testament | Matthew 10:40)

40 ¶ He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[He is the way]

That's not what the scripture says. My late husband left your church and priesthood and went back to being a Protestant.

Granted, Mormonism teaches that anyone who rejects Mormonism rejects Christ.

Doctrine and Covenants 84


39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.

40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall nothave forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 24:5)

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

(Old Testament | Ezekiel 18:26 - 28)

26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

 

[Rescued One]

(New Testament | Matthew 10:40)

40 ¶ He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Christians already know and believe the words of our Triune God. Joseph Smith made a habit of including phrases and sentences from the Bible.

What Jesus didn't say is, "If you reject Mormonism, you reject me."

Nor did He say, "Joseph Smith is my prophet."

 

[Rescued One]

(Old Testament | Isaiah 24:5)

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

(Old Testament | Ezekiel 18:26 - 28)

26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

What have those verses in common with Jane_Doe's claim that most ex-Mormons become atheists?

 

[Rescued One]

I'm not attacking anyone, just stating an observation. Seesh.
More misinformation I have already addressed in this very thread.

You have not met nor observed all ex-Mormons.

 

[He is the way]

Christians already know and believe the words of our Triune God. Joseph Smith made a habit of including phrases and sentences from the Bible.

What Jesus didn't say is, "If you reject Mormonism, you reject me."

Nor did He say, "Joseph Smith is my prophet."

Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.
(New Testament | Matthew 10:40)

40 ¶ He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[He is the way]

What have those verses in common with Jane_Doe's claim that most ex-Mormons become atheists?

I was answering your quote, not her's.
(Book of Mormon | Jacob 6:5 - 9)

5 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I beseech of you in words of soberness that ye would repent, and come with full purpose of heart, and cleave unto God as he cleaveth unto you. And while his arm of mercy is extended towards you in the light of the day, harden not your hearts.
6 Yea, today, if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts; for why will ye die?
7 For behold, after ye have been nourished by the good word of God all the day long, will ye bring forth evil fruit, that ye must be hewn down and cast into the fire?
8 Behold, will ye reject these words? Will ye reject the words of the prophets; and will ye reject all the words which have been spoken concerning Christ, after so many have spoken concerning him; and deny the good word of Christ, and the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and quench the Holy Spirit, and make a mock of the great plan of redemption, which hath been laid for you?
9 Know ye not that if ye will do these things, that the power of the redemption and the resurrection, which is in Christ, will bring you to stand with shame and awful guilt before the bar of God?

 

[dzheremi]

Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.
(New Testament | Matthew 10:40)

40 ¶ He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

That verse is Jesus Christ talking to His Apostles.

 

[He is the way]

That verse is Jesus Christ talking to His Apostles.

Joseph Smith was not on the earth when the Bible was written. However he is a prophet of God in these latter days.

 

[dzheremi]

Joseph Smith was not on the earth when the Bible was written.

In other words, it is literally impossible -- by your own admission -- that this verse be a reference to Joseph Smith.

Thank you.

However he is a prophet of God in these latter days.

Completely false. Baloney.

 

[Rescued One]

That verse is Jesus Christ talking to His Apostles.

Amen!

 

[Rescued One]

(Old Testament | Isaiah 24:5)

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

(Old Testament | Ezekiel 18:26 - 28)

26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

If you think Ezekiel 18:26-28 refers to my husband's wisdom and honesty in choosing Christ over Joseph Smith, you are wrong.

 

[Ironhold]

I never sensed that ex-Mormons I've known had a persecution complex or animus towards non-Mormons, nor did they ever describe significant persecution as Mormons. It was more like simple religious indifference and suspicion of religion in general. Most seemed very burnt out.

In this day and age, one doesn't have to look too hard to find Mormons who had very bad experiences at the hands of mainline Christians.

At one point, we actually had a poster here on the debate board who tried to defend the calls for our deaths by saying that we'd somehow "declared war" on mainline Christianity and so we "deserved" whatever happened to us, up to and including death.

That's right - in this day and age, here in the US, there are people who think that we Mormons should all be killed for our beliefs.

The cottage industry that is the production of anti-Mormon material, material that is largely comprised of bald-faced lies, isn't helping matters any.

I think you can understand, then, why so many Mormons are soured on mainline Christianity: there are that many mainline Christians looking to stab us in the back, sometimes literally.

The hate is so deep that you'll even see people walk away from charitable efforts once they know that Mormon groups are looking to assist.

Does any of this sound like it paints an attractive picture of mainline Christianity?