What exactly is a liberal Christian?

[Warrior Poet]

Liberal is a frame of mind, its not part of a religion or doctrine. I consider myself a liberal thinking christian. I believe in the basics of christianity, and the core message of the bible, and see it as a resource to use, historically, and spirtually, but i like to think outside the box. To the definition at the present time Jesus was a liberal thinking "christian". Being liberal means you question something if it seems wrong or not fair, but you keep and open mind and in most cases and open heart and yet still have that love inside, that sense of blind love. Just like in polotics you can disagree with Bush and his laws and ideas, but when something like 9/11 happens you rally behind him in a patriotic love for our country and fellow people.

Warrior Poet

 

[secretdawn]

Ummm...about how to read the bible, literally and figuratively. I think He makes it pretty clear. Jesus told stories as lessons. Jesus did things, I think if you read it carefully, and watch the wording you can see that if it is a story, they tell you it is a story, if it is a metaphore, they say in one way or another that it is, and if it is literal...well they say it is.

 

[La Bonita Zorilla]

Hi wow, I just came to ask, what do you define "judgemental" as?

One watchword we are using a lot lately is 'look in the mirror before you look out the window.'

 

[NotTroy]

I would describe myself as a very conservative Christian. I disagree with Liberals on many issues, but I do believe that as long as they hold to the basic beliefs in Christianity (namely that Christ was the only begotten Son of God, He lived a sinless life, died on the cross, was ressurected after three days, and salvation is by grace through faith) that they are indeed Christians. I don't agree with liberals on the typical liberal vs. conservative issues (I don't agree with gay marriage, I don't agree with openly homosexual preist, bishops, ect., I am a YEC and believe that Noah's flood was a literal worldwide flood and did occur, ect.) and I believe that some of these liberal beliefs are sinful in nature. However, I don't believe that opinions on these subjects effect whether your a Christian or not, and I feel insulted when I see liberals talk bad about people like Tim Lahaye and Pat Robertson, men whom I respect and agree with on many issues. I see the same hateful attitude from liberals in regards to conservatives that conservatives are accused of having so much.

The point is no one has a monopoly on what is right and wrong in Christianity and as long as we agree on the basics then we shouldn't put each other down so much. Whether we are right or wrong on issues like YEC or not is something we will certainly figure out once we reach the goal we are all aiming for.

 

[Fideist]

I would describe myself as a very conservative Christian. I disagree with Liberals on many issues, but I do believe that as long as they hold to the basic beliefs in Christianity (namely that Christ was the only begotten Son of God, He lived a sinless life, died on the cross, was ressurected after three days, and salvation is by grace through faith) that they are indeed Christians.

Do you include Catholics and Orthodox in the Christian category?

I don't agree with liberals on the typical liberal vs. conservative issues (I don't agree with gay marriage, I don't agree with openly homosexual preist, bishops, ect., I am a YEC and believe that Noah's flood was a literal worldwide flood and did occur, ect.) and I believe that some of these liberal beliefs are sinful in nature. However, I don't believe that opinions on these subjects effect whether your a Christian or not, and I feel insulted when I see liberals talk bad about people like Tim Lahaye and Pat Robertson, men whom I respect and agree with on many issues. I see the same hateful attitude from liberals in regards to conservatives that conservatives are accused of having so much.

Yep! Two wrongs never make a right.

The point is no one has a monopoly on what is right and wrong in Christianity and as long as we agree on the basics then we shouldn't put each other down so much. Whether we are right or wrong on issues like YEC or not is something we will certainly figure out once we reach the goal we are all aiming for.

The basics being those things included in the Nicene Creed? I'm not able to recite that without feeling like a hypocrite. I also don't focus on a heavenly reward My beliefs are in place because they work right now. So, I wonder where that leaves me in your universe of Christians?

 

[elanor]

I would describe myself as a very conservative Christian. I disagree with Liberals on many issues, but I do believe that as long as they hold to the basic beliefs in Christianity (namely that Christ was the only begotten Son of God, He lived a sinless life, died on the cross, was ressurected after three days, and salvation is by grace through faith) that they are indeed Christians. I don't agree with liberals on the typical liberal vs. conservative issues (I don't agree with gay marriage, I don't agree with openly homosexual preist, bishops, ect., I am a YEC and believe that Noah's flood was a literal worldwide flood and did occur, ect.) and I believe that some of these liberal beliefs are sinful in nature. However, I don't believe that opinions on these subjects effect whether your a Christian or not, and I feel insulted when I see liberals talk bad about people like Tim Lahaye and Pat Robertson, men whom I respect and agree with on many issues. I see the same hateful attitude from liberals in regards to conservatives that conservatives are accused of having so much.

The point is no one has a monopoly on what is right and wrong in Christianity and as long as we agree on the basics then we shouldn't put each other down so much. Whether we are right or wrong on issues like YEC or not is something we will certainly figure out once we reach the goal we are all aiming for.

Thank you, NotTroy! I agree with much of what you say. It is our relationship with God through Christ that makes us Christians, not our stance of peripheral issues. You're right in that some liberals do badmouth conservative Christian leaders. I've certainly been guilty of that where Jerry Falwell is concerned, mostly because his politics gall me so. :o I do have to say, though, that I don't often hear a liberal Christian tell a conservative one that he or she is not a Christian. I've heard conservative believers say that plenty of times about their liberal brethren.



This thread encourages me, and I want to thank the people here who are liberal Christians for being willing to share their thoughts and experiences. I've been a Christian for more than 30 years, and - at least since the rise of the Moral Majority and the move of the mainline church to the right - I've felt like a square peg in a round hole. My political views, my inability to accept that every part of scripture must be literal, and my growing conviction that homosexuality is not a choice and not a sin have all put me at odds with the teachings of the church I was attending. I finally decided that as much as I love this church ( and I really do!), that I had to be around other people who understood what it was to wrestle with the same issues and questions that I do. So a few months ago I left, and have recently joined a small United Methodist Church. I sat and wept through the services for the first month at least because it was so good to be somewhere where people read the scripture, talked about God with wonder and love, and yet said so many of the things I feel about other issues, too. It was like always feeling that there's something wrong with you and then having someone come alongside and and put an arm around you and say that you're okay. I don't think some of our more hardline, conservative brethren understand that their judgemental, condemning words can crush a spirit. I know there are many who don't think it's possible to be liberal and a Christian. No words of mine will convince them otherwise. I will just trust that as I follow God in the best way I know how, that my life will bear the kind of fruit that shows I really do belong to Him, even if my opinions may be different from my conservative brothers and sisters.

 

[seebs]

I'm glad you found a place where you can get a little closer to God. Church should be an open door, leading to God, not a closed door, barring the way.

 

[Shekinahs]

It was like always feeling that there's something wrong with you and then having someone come alongside and and put an arm around you and say that you're okay. I don't think some of our more hardline, conservative brethren understand that their judgemental, condemning words can crush a spirit. I know there are many who don't think it's possible to be liberal and a Christian. No words of mine will convince them otherwise. I will just trust that as I follow God in the best way I know how, that my life will bear the kind of fruit that shows I really do belong to Him, even if my opinions may be different from my conservative brothers and sisters.

Blessings,

I totally agree with what you just said. Being around like minds is very important otherwise you will get drained quickly being around others who disagree with you. I like CF mainly because of the many different view points on many different topics and it allows me to think about things in a way I've never thought of before and I get to read the thoughts of people who think very differently than me which is always healthy BUT in the end one needs the encouragement and support of others who see Christianity as yourself. The re-enforcement is always welcomed. I'm a message board surfer and I enjoy posting on many different boards and the boards for people who think like myself are always "my homes on the web". I know I can go there, relax, learn, and just simply know here are others as myself.

I think everybody enjoys that feeling no matter what their opinions, beliefs or ideas may be.

~ShekinahMoon~

 

[Buck72]

There are several aspects of liberalism and not every liberal has every one of them just like every conservative does not have every aspect of conservatism. But some of these other aspects are:

I must appeal to the Word here.

1. A non-literal interpretation of scripture and wisdom

Who decides what is literal/non-literal?

2. Tolerance for social diversity; in some case celebration of it

This is invalidated through scripture...that means it is a LIE. What do you mean by tolerance Zorilla? Is Christ now tolerant of sin despite His holiness? I see a break in sound doctrine coming...

3. A tendency toward Universalism

Where?...show us in scripture.

4. Concern for the poor, opprressed (Matthew 5:4)

YES...this is right. See below:

Jam 1:25-27 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does. If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

5. Opposition to state-imposed religion and support for religious freedom

Yes, but "state-imposed religion" is undefined here. And religious freedom that violates the Law is not freedom, but bondage.

6. Respect for the individual believer over a church hierarchy

Respect for the believer...not their sin (ie: love the sinner, hate the sin).

7. Opposition to ritual in general among traditionalistic believers like Catholics and Episcopals; however, in some cases, the opposite may be true to churches with less structure to worship. Kind of a weird conundrum--I mean "contemporary services" are loved by more fundamentalist sorts but loathed by liberals often. Someone once said on this board Pentecostals were 'liberals"-not in my experience, but, compared to Baptists, maybe.

Ritual, religion is hodge-podge...RELATIONSHIP is what distibuishes Christinanity from the heathen religions.

8. Acceptance of others despite their sins---a major cultural divide was evident over President Clinton's adulterous actions-a lot of liberals shrugged but conservatives like D. James Kennedy wanted him to resign.
There's probably more but that's it for now.

Careful here...liberalism falls on its face when it accepts sin as being alright insomuch as the sinner "didn't mean it". Sin is sin, and Clinton is a ****, dirty LIAR, who, thus far has failed to REPENT. That makes him a lawbreaker, and not a man worthy of any "acceptance".

Mat 18:16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

Mat 18:17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

 

[seebs]

You say he failed to repent. I say we don't know.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Quote:

2. Tolerance for social diversity; in some case celebration of it

This is invalidated through scripture...that means it is a LIE. What do you mean by tolerance Zorilla? Is Christ now tolerant of sin despite His holiness? I see a break in sound doctrine coming...

Buck - why do you equate social diversity with sin?

 

[Buck72]

Buck - why do you equate social diversity with sin?

Please define all the types of social diversity referred to here, and we'll examine them together through the lens of scripture. If there is any mention of that which is abominable to the LORD, then there is a problem.

I suspect there is already a problem, but no one wants to look at it Biblically, which is why liberals talk a lot about "feelings, acceptance, tolerance, love, etc" - all great things when under the control of the Spririt of God, not when under the control of the subjective, relative, idealistic enterprise of degenerate thinking that claims God says what He, in fact, did NOT say.

The Bible NEVER speaks of diversity as a good thing. Not once, not anywhere, ever. Diversity is a bad thing. Unity, on the other hand, is a good thing...rather, unity in Christ is a good thing.

According to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary:

Diversity - 1. the condition of being different or having differences 2. an instance or a point of difference.

What possible good can come about celebrating differences if they are in disagreement about what is right and what is wrong?

The Word of God is TRUTH. To the believer, that is a critical, deadly serious element of the faith. What distinguishes itself as different from this truth is an untruth (read: LIE) and is not worth celebrating in Christian circles.

Please straighten my definitions if I'm off key. (NOTE: I'm not talking about ethnic diversity, just what people CHOOSE to align themselves with on a purely social, moral plane....BIG difference).

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Some of the types of diversity that liberal Christians rejoice in are diversity of interests, diversity of tastes, diversity of racial background, diversity of culture. That's what I read by toleration of diversity. It means that you accept the fact that I'm a white long haired rocker with interests in RPGs and fellwalking, and that you are not. If you're not.

 

[seebs]

The Bible does indeed speak of diversity as a good thing. It does so subtly. But, for instance, read the book of Ruth. Now think really carefully about what it says. What it says is that a good woman from an outsider tribe is better than a son. That's a pretty solid endorsement of diversity right there!

 

[BarbB]

The Bible does indeed speak of diversity as a good thing. It does so subtly. But, for instance, read the book of Ruth. Now think really carefully about what it says. What it says is that a good woman from an outsider tribe is better than a son. That's a pretty solid endorsement of diversity right there!

Only in the ancestry of Jesus are foreign women good things - like Ruth and Rahab. Otherwise the foreign women led the Israelite men down the path to pagan practices and eliminating God from their lives and worship!

 

[seebs]

Only in the ancestry of Jesus are foreign women good things - like Ruth and Rahab. Otherwise the foreign women led the Israelite men down the path to pagan practices and eliminating God from their lives and worship!

This is incredibly narrow, and frankly, just plain untrue.

Please go read the parable of the Good Samaritan again.

 

[Buck72]

Some of the types of diversity that liberal Christians rejoice in are diversity of interests, diversity of tastes, diversity of racial background, diversity of culture. That's what I read by toleration of diversity. It means that you accept the fact that I'm a white long haired rocker with interests in RPGs and fellwalking, and that you are not. If you're not.

Oh, in that case, COOL! (I'm a rocker too, been a drummer for 25 years!).

But I pointed to my reply so as to not trespass upon ethnic diversity - that IS encouraged (even created) by the LORD.

My issue with SOME liberal Christians is to populate the "diversity" letterhead with deviant sexual practice, foreign spirits, and general anti-christian postures within the ever-expanding umbrella of "christian tolerance", and then label my fundmental, Bible-believing, blood-redeemed self as: "intolerant" - like that's a bad thing in the Body of Christ.

Christ is EXTREMELY intolerant of anything that stands against His holiness which is clearly explained in scripture to the edification of the believing Christian.

 

[BarbB]

This is incredibly narrow, and frankly, just plain untrue.

Please go read the parable of the Good Samaritan again.

Ummm - where in the Good Samaritan does a woman appear? Are you speaking of the Woman at the Well? But she did not marry into the Jews either, so far as we know!

I'm speaking of foreign women marrying into the Jewish religion. In Exodus, God strictly forbids marrying Gentile women as they will bring their gods with them and alienate the men from God. That was why God ordered the Jews to kill all the inhabitants of Canaan. Rarely were the women spared for wives by God's order. The Jews instead sometimes did not do as God ordered and took them as wives anyway!

Please don't get all upset by what I said. I should have put a smilie in, I guess!

 

[seebs]

Ummm - where in the Good Samaritan does a woman appear? Are you speaking of the Woman at the Well? But she did not marry into the Jews either, so far as we know!

There's no woman in the Good Samaritan. The point of that story is that the people you hate the most, well, if one of them is a good person, then he is more your neighbor than members of the groups you "accept".

That's diversity. If you want to understand that story fully, imagine that it was told in Georgia shortly after the Civil war, and that it was called "the parable of the good Negro". That'll get you close to how much the audience hated and despised the Samaritans, but it still falls a bit short.

God wants diversity. We know this because He created diversity. He didn't stop after the first person; we're like potato chips that way.

I'm speaking of foreign women marrying into the Jewish religion. In Exodus, God strictly forbids marrying Gentile women as they will bring their gods with them and alienate the men from God. [/b]

Yes, and He also forbids the Jews from wearing mixed fabrics, or eating shellfish. We came past the holiness code. It is no longer part of our faith.

In the Old Testament, contact with unclean things made you unclean. In the New Testament, contact with unclean things purifies them.

 

[oworm]

We came past the holiness code. It is no longer part of our faith

1CO 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy,

Eph 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

HEB 12:14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy;

1Pet1:15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

Rom6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life

2CO 7:1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

Seems Holiness is very much a part of the new testament code!!