What exactly is a God experience?

[razeontherock]

And what is it that you think I am not telling all about?

I'm not sure, but how and why do you connect those things which are not with false prophets?

 

[razeontherock]

I left it open as an option. Maybe I am oblivious. I am fine with that as a possibility.

Welcome him? Embrace him? Based on everything that I know. Yes. But I will refer you to Psalm 17:1. Do you know what deceitful lips are?

KJV puts that as "feigned." Often different versions help bring clarity, and this is enough IMHO. The only thing you are expressing is complacency wrt life vs death. Jesus speaks of this here:

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."

All of this is available today! I would go so far as to say that the entire contents of this book are available to the believer, w/ understanding.

 

[razeontherock]

I have to ask you a question.. it really has nothing to do with your conversation.. why do you put G-d.. I understand you don't want to take God's name in vein.. but you understand G-d is his title and by no means his name right?

Sure. Even His title is something we can't fully fathom or appreciate, especially when taking it upon ourselves to engage in discussion at the level here ...

 

[Mud Hole]

KJV puts that as "feigned." Often different versions help bring clarity, and this is enough IMHO. The only thing you are expressing is complacency wrt life vs death. Jesus speaks of this here:.

I am so pleased to see you caught that. This shows me we can agree on a translation. And it is truly sad how many people ask what feigned is and then follow it up with how much they hate the KJV. Feigned meaning "pretend". Deceitful is to intentionally mislead someone. While they are similiar, what is the difference? Pretending or feigning places the blame for the act on the actor. Pretending doesn't suggest that the listener is falling for the act. Deceit suggests that someone must be able to be misled. Can God be misled? Anyhow that was just something to think on. I used the scripture to make an obvious comparisson. Based on yours, I see that you saw a bit where I was headed with it.

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.".

That is all part of pretending. If you have to pretend to believe, it only works on man. Why would someone who does not believe need to pretend with any god? I love how people are quick to say "pray for...wisdom, experience, guidance,...." but they fail to understand that belief is required prior to prayer.

All of this is available today! I would go so far as to say that the entire contents of this book are available to the believer, w/ understanding.

The contents of the book is available to the believer with understanding today? Meaning that you believe God is unchanged through time and that everything once offered is still offered?

 

[Mud Hole]

I'm not sure, but how and why do you connect those things which are not with false prophets?

I will do my best to turn thought into text. Bear with me here.

I was not making a connection of false prophets to being things which are not. I was giving a comparisson. False prophets are among the "not" to camoflauge themselves. It makes sense though. Look at all of the evangelists. They have the fame and the money and even the staunchest of unbelievers know who they are. I see them as more of a distraction from the real false prophets. The real false prophets are the ones that people actually believe. The ones in the churches, maybe even on this board. The ones that are hard to detect. The lowly ones in that scripture would be the congregations who are generally followers and not leaders who have to expose them. I hope that makes sense. Sometimes I can transfer thought into words. My wife says that my mouth is disconnected from my brain. lol

 

[elman]

No, I have never had an identical experience in a hospital. I have seen many people praying, chaplains, and people reading bibles to loved ones. This is all something I saw as part of the dying or healing process that gave these people comfort. I didn't consider it anything spectacular to myself. Maybe I am more of one of those get in my face kind of guys. If it doesn't slap me in the face then maybe it gets overlooked. That or I am just harder to convince. Coincidences have seemed to be very minimal in my life. Maybe some have passed that I didn't pay attention to or my view is too black and white. I do agree that based on your particular experiences and understanding of the coincidences that you have had, it would be reasonable for you to come to that conclusion.

A chaplin or someone reading from the bible or praying would not have gotten my attention. This did. Again, to me, reading from the bible or praying is not uncommon. A nurse belting out a hymn while cleaning the room is just not something I ever heard of happening or ever observed before or since. But I agree with your view that it was not perhaps spectacular and could happen without a Creator being involved.

 

[Mud Hole]

A chaplin or someone reading from the bible or praying would not have gotten my attention. This did. Again, to me, reading from the bible or praying is not uncommon. A nurse belting out a hymn while cleaing the room is just not something I ever heard of happening or ever observed before or since. But I agree with your view that it was not perhaps spectacular and could happen without a Creator being involved.

Please don't think that I was discounting your experience. That was not the intent. I was just answering your question about what I have experienced, and maybe adding a bit to why I am considered so....hard headed? lol That might be the word. My wife is nodding YES!

 

[oi_antz]

Please don't think that I was discounting your experience. That was not the intent. I was just answering your question about what I have experienced, and maybe adding a bit to why I am considered so....hard headed? lol That might be the word. My wife is nodding YES!

Hi Mud Hole, I don't want to speak on behalf of Elman because he can speak for himself, but I can confirm that sometimes when God speaks to us He uses coincidence to get our attention, and then acknowledging that God has caused it to happen what could God be possibly trying to tell us? Of course if you are atheist and you want to consider it purely coincidental then you have that option. God has always provided the ability to deny Him, because that is crucial to constructing faith. If one day though you get the necessary nudge to believe in God then you will be able to start learning from God by thinking about what message He has for you in everything that happens. Everything is designed by God, it is not just coincidence. I'll give you an example:

I was riding on my motorbike after getting some groceries. I saw some teens walking on the path ahead and as I approached one of them reached down into the grass verge to pick something up. I was watching to see what it was, it was a gun! He pointed it at me, the thought went through my head "here comes the bullet" and then nothing. Hmmm, gave me something to think about though especially since I had only dedicated my life to Jesus a few days earlier. Now, if I had not have been a believer I might have called the police, but being a believer I thought about why someone might want to shoot me. So God can speak to us through any experience, even the random song playlist. So although you have the knowledge that God is real because plenty of us know it and can testify of it, you are wise not ready to believe because you have not yet found the narrow Gate. So don't sell yourself too cheap, your soul is worth much more than the world and as an atheist you've made that commitment that you won't believe in God until you are convinced beyond a doubt that it is Him.

I'd like to pray with you, and I hope you can agree with the words I say.

Dear heavenly Father, we know you are wise and that your ways are sometimes peculiar to our feeble human wisdom, yet your ways are perfect. We commend Mud Hole to your holy watch that you will synchronize the world around him to teach him and guard him, and that you will speak to his heart that as he experiences life with his mind pursuing a greater understanding of thee, that you will lead him to the narrow gate and show him what he needs to do to obtain the promise that you have offered us through the message of your dear son Jesus. Lord, we know the world is a confusing place with many people who only seem to add to the confusion. We pray for clarity of sight, Lord give Mud Hole blinders that he will focus only on the message of truth in everything he does. Father we pray that you'll bring Mud Hole safely to know your son Jesus Christ and to learn how to love Him for all that He has done for us. We pray for Mud Hole's deliverance from the valley of death's shadow into the light of eternal life in Jesus, and we pray to you Father God, the God Most High, because we know there is no other god before you. We pray to you most humbly Lord acknowledging that only because your son Jesus has given us this right that we may approach the reverent being you are. Thank you Lord, may we always praise your name.

Mud Hole, I do appreciate having you roaming these forums, I hope you will be able to help us keep the proud one's in check I know that I'm one of those people who need to repent from time to time for having been proud and said something wrong. Well, we are human afterall, even though it is true that God sometimes uses us to get His message across

 

[Mud Hole]

Hi Mud Hole, I don't want to speak on behalf of Elman because he can speak for himself, but I can confirm that sometimes when God speaks to us He uses coincidence to get our attention, and then acknowledging that God has caused it to happen what could God be possibly trying to tell us? Of course if you are atheist and you want to consider it purely coincidental then you have that option. God has always provided the ability to deny Him, because that is crucial to constructing faith. If one day though you get the necessary nudge to believe in God then you will be able to start learning from God by thinking about what message He has for you in everything that happens. Everything is designed by God, it is not just coincidence. I'll give you an example:

Do you think all coincidences are from God and if not, how do you tell the difference? Do you just consider the really big ones from God and the small ones as coincidence?

I was riding on my motorbike after getting some groceries. I saw some teens walking on the path ahead and as I approached one of them reached down into the grass verge to pick something up. I was watching to see what it was, it was a gun! He pointed it at me, the thought went through my head "here comes the bullet" and then nothing. Hmmm, gave me something to think about though especially since I had only dedicated my life to Jesus a few days earlier. Now, if I had not have been a believer I might have called the police, but being a believer I thought about why someone might want to shoot me. So God can speak to us through any experience, even the random song playlist. So although you have the knowledge that God is real because plenty of us know it and can testify of it, you are wise not ready to believe because you have not yet found the narrow Gate. So don't sell yourself too cheap, your soul is worth much more than the world and as an atheist you've made that commitment that you won't believe in God until you are convinced beyond a doubt that it is Him.

Intense. I still would have called the police. The next person may have not been as......hmm...lucky? Blessed?...,not sure what to use here, as you were. I don't know that I have made any commitment to not believing in a god. It just hasn't happened. It isn't something you choose to do. It is there or it isn't.

I'd like to pray with you, and I hope you can agree with the words I say.

Dear heavenly Father, we know you are wise and that your ways are sometimes peculiar to our feeble human wisdom, yet your ways are perfect. We commend Mud Hole to your holy watch that you will synchronize the world around him to teach him and guard him, and that you will speak to his heart that as he experiences life with his mind pursuing a greater understanding of thee, that you will lead him to the narrow gate and show him what he needs to do to obtain the promise that you have offered us through the message of your dear son Jesus. Lord, we know the world is a confusing place with many people who only seem to add to the confusion. We pray for clarity of sight, Lord give Mud Hole blinders that he will focus only on the message of truth in everything he does. Father we pray that you'll bring Mud Hole safely to know your son Jesus Christ and to learn how to love Him for all that He has done for us. We pray for Mud Hole's deliverance from the valley of death's shadow into the light of eternal life in Jesus, and we pray to you Father God, the God Most High, because we know there is no other god before you. We pray to you most humbly Lord acknowledging that only because your son Jesus has given us this right that we may approach the reverent being you are. Thank you Lord, may we always praise your name.

Thanks for the prayer. If anything happens I will let you know, but from what I see, I am oblivious to the obvious.

Mud Hole, I do appreciate having you roaming these forums, I hope you will be able to help us keep the proud one's in check I know that I'm one of those people who need to repent from time to time for having been proud and said something wrong. Well, we are human afterall, even though it is true that God sometimes uses us to get His message across

lol I will do my best. Most of the proud ones will not like me a bit. I have a very good outlook on life and I don't get bent out of shape over silly things. Life is way too short to be prideful or bitter. Some people take life for granted. I never will. If you say anything "wrong" to me then go ahead and forget it. It was forgiven before it happened. I am too lighthearted to be offended.

 

[BibleDave]

I guess you have heard of those stories where people are atheists/non-believers and they then, in a miraculous change, become a follower of Christ. When I was first starting to become serious about Christianity I was thinking I needed something like this to happen. It's all a long story but in the end i became a true believer by seeking God. I started reading the bible and applying it to everyday life. I would also take teachings from church and put them into everyday life too.

Instead of having my sport life, work life, school life, christian life etc, I was actually living my sport life as a Christian. My work and school life as a Christian. My faith got stronger as did many other attributes to my Christianity. Church use to just be sitting there and listening to people and then going home, as I imagine it might be like for you. For me it is now something different and somewhere where I can get inspiration.

I came to the lord slowly and it was because I went looking to become closer. He already wanted me to come to him so it was a pretty easy match.

What I'm saying is that if you are looking for a big turning where, for instance, god talks to you and you see heaven or something of that, then you might not get that. You might have a turning point but I can't say anything for certain because I'm not god. My turning point wasn't very distinct, as I said before that I slowly became a Christian.

My advise to you is read the bible and try and read it after a problem has occurred in your life. That is the easiest time to get something out of it for me. Try and seek the lord or at least try and get an understanding for what is spoken at church and what your family talks about.

I think that if you have gone on to this forum and have look for a solution to your problem that you have already started seeking. I feel the same way talking about my personal opinions on god to my direct family even as they are all strong Christians. That's just the way I am. Try to talk to them if you can but you can keep your atheism or christianity private if you wish. I'm sure they would, I so would I, want you to be a Christian, so keep that in mind.

Hope it works out for you =)
God bless,
Dave.

 

[Mud Hole]

I guess you have heard of those stories where people are atheists/non-believers and they then, in a miraculous change, become a follower of Christ. When I was first starting to become serious about Christianity I was thinking I needed something like this to happen. It's all a long story but in the end i became a true believer by seeking God. I started reading the bible and applying it to everyday life. I would also take teachings from church and put them into everyday life too.

Instead of having my sport life, work life, school life, christian life etc, I was actually living my sport life as a Christian. My work and school life as a Christian. My faith got stronger as did many other attributes to my Christianity. Church use to just be sitting there and listening to people and then going home, as I imagine it might be like for you. For me it is now something different and somewhere where I can get inspiration.

I came to the lord slowly and it was because I went looking to become closer. He already wanted me to come to him so it was a pretty easy match.

What I'm saying is that if you are looking for a big turning where, for instance, god talks to you and you see heaven or something of that, then you might not get that. You might have a turning point but I can't say anything for certain because I'm not god. My turning point wasn't very distinct, as I said before that I slowly became a Christian.

My advise to you is read the bible and try and read it after a problem has occurred in your life. That is the easiest time to get something out of it for me. Try and seek the lord or at least try and get an understanding for what is spoken at church and what your family talks about.

I think that if you have gone on to this forum and have look for a solution to your problem that you have already started seeking. I feel the same way talking about my personal opinions on god to my direct family even as they are all strong Christians. That's just the way I am. Try to talk to them if you can but you can keep your atheism or christianity private if you wish. I'm sure they would, I so would I, want you to be a Christian, so keep that in mind.

Hope it works out for you =)
God bless,
Dave.

I really appreciated this post. Thanks for sharing it. This is probably the first time I have seen or heard a conversion of this nature. It is interesting.

 

[BibleDave]

I really appreciated this post. Thanks for sharing it. This is probably the first time I have seen or heard a conversion of this nature. It is interesting.

Thanks. Please post something if anything comes up about the subject. That would be great =)

 

[Mud Hole]

Thanks. Please post something if anything comes up about the subject. That would be great =)

Maybe I am a bit thick tonight. Which subject would you like me to post on? There are so many in this thread that I can't keep any of it straight. lol. I was short on time with my last post to you. I don't want to appear inattentive to it though. What was your stance on God before you started applying Christian principles to your life? I see very few differences between the way I am now and mostly have always been, by way of my actions and attitude, versus living a Christian lifestyle, except for the belief part. Mmmm and obviously the spreading of the gospel part also. lol

 

[BibleDave]

If you started believing or had a transformation then I would be happy to hear it. That was what I was saying =)

And I would also reccommend you scroll through the 10 commandments and see if you do hold all the principles up. Just to check =)

Also you don't need to be a spreader of the gospel to be a perfect christian. If you can help others through your knowledge and experience, that's what you should do. But it doesn't mean you have to

 

[Mud Hole]

If you started believing or had a transformation then I would be happy to hear it. That was what I was saying =)

Will do. Everyone here would be first to know. Wait...Third. First my wife and then the EMT while I explain why my wife is needing to be sent to the hospital. lol

And I would also reccommend you scroll through the 10 commandments and see if you do hold all the principles up. Just to check =)

Well that gets tough. It depends who you ask. Some would say the whole idolatry thing is something that all atheists do.

Also you don't need to be a spreader of the gospel to be a perfect christian. If you can help others through your knowledge and experience, that's what you should do. But it doesn't mean you have to

Well I don't know. If you are big on Paul's ramblings then it seems to suggest otherwise.

 

[razeontherock]

The contents of the book is available to the believer with understanding today? Meaning that you believe God is unchanged through time and that everything once offered is still offered?

Well that's not what I was thinking of when I wrote that, but yes, this is true too. The acceptable year of the Lord and all that. I was referring to Revelation ... not too many read that book like that.

 

[joey_downunder]

lol true. I guess some things may not always have to be questioned. At least not more than once. I am sure I questioned my gender as a toddler and might do it once again if some medical ultrasound said I might have internal genitals hiding somewhere. lol I do question if my family loves me and I do question if the sun will come up tomorrow. I hope my family loves me and I hope the sun will come up tomorrow but hoping doesn't make it guaranteed to me. I guess it would be more to your benefit if I use some of the commonly used Christian phrases to answer those....we are not promised tomorrow- it's a cheesy reference for James 4:13-14 and then 2 Chronicles 6:30 for being unable to know the hearts of others.

*DNA would still show your real gender so XY or XX chromosones cannot be questioned.
*I already know your wife's reaction reading you doubt if your family really loves you...
*And you will know if the sun will come up in the morning because you are at least half a day behind the better half of the world *grin* and would be able to read the terrifying news on any news website.

I am glad to see that you are still OK with quoting scriptures so you can't have PTSD in that department.
Now, it is interesting that you don't mention the following verses:

James 4:13 Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil. 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

Those highlighted verses show the motive. The people James were writing to must have been arrogantly making plans without seeing if God wanted them to do those things or not. Nothing to do with doubting or obsessing because they don't know if they will ever get their decisions right at all. Context, context, context.

The same applies to the other isolated verse from King Solomon's long prayer when dedicating the temple to God in 2 chronicles 6.

I am wagging my finger at you because -as a grown-up -you should know better to make sure you understand what you are quoting than just use a couple of verses to show you've got a good memory (like a precocious kid).

 

[Mud Hole]

*DNA would still show your real gender so XY or XX chromosones cannot be questioned.

This is not really relevant to much but you can actually have an X or Y only chromosome and can be XXX or XXY. There are lots of variations. I just don't remember under which conditions which exists.

*I already know your wife's reaction reading you doubt if your family really loves you...

She knows how I feel about it. She knows that I worship the ground she walks on but that I will always question if she loves me. That is just my nature.

*And you will know if the sun will come up in the morning because you are at least half a day behind the better half of the world *grin* and would be able to read the terrifying news on any news website.

I like this "better half" of the world. lol World isn't liking us so much right now yeah? That was just a joke btw. I know what you meant. I wouldn't be able to read the terrifying news on a website if the sun doesn't come up tomorrow because most likely it exploded and we are no more.

*I am glad to see that you are still OK with quoting scriptures so you can't have PTSD in that department.
Now, it is interesting that you don't mention the following verses:

lol I give myself more credit than having PTSD for bible verses. If I had PTSD I would have gotten it when I was in the military, not over scripture. I think I am clear of that. The obsessive/compulsive disorder, however, that is a whole other can of worms.

James 4:13 Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil. 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

Those highlighted verses show the motive. The people James were writing to must have been arrogantly making plans without seeing if God wanted them to do those things or not. Nothing to do with doubting or obsessing because they don't know if they will ever get their decisions right at all. Context, context, context.

I know the intention of the scripture and under what cirumstances it was. I was giving some deeper meaning to it. What if it was not God's will that the sun come up for another day? And I wasn't the one that created the "we aren't promised tomorrow" bit. Blame the Christians for that.

The same applies to the other isolated verse from King Solomon's long prayer when dedicating the temple to God in 2 chronicles 6.

I didn't come up with this one either. It is called regurgitation, or parroting.

I am wagging my finger at you because -as a grown-up -you should know better to make sure you understand what you are quoting than just use a couple of verses to show you've got a good memory (like a precocious kid).

I do have a good memory for certain things, but that isn't where I was going. Have you ever heard the phrase God helps those who help themselves? That isn't in the bible, but it doesn't stop people from thinking it is. They create catch phrases for a scripture and it becomes the new scripture. You also can't discount a deeper meaning of a scripture over context when much of the bible is expected to be metaphor. You have to consider both possibilities.

I am happy to say "OK I am wrong." I am not the expert here.

 

[Mud Hole]

Well that's not what I was thinking of when I wrote that, but yes, this is true too. The acceptable year of the Lord and all that. I was referring to Revelation ... not too many read that book like that.

Oh. I understand. Sometimes I overread things I think. Thanks for clarification.

 

[oi_antz]

Do you think all coincidences are from God and if not, how do you tell the difference? Do you just consider the really big ones from God and the small ones as coincidence?

I think if you notice it, then it's God speaking to you. It is no coincidence that I am looking for shoes all my life in the 2nd hand shops and never find any my size and then one day just before I go to the shoe shop to buy a new pair I call into the sallies first, and lo! A pair for $2 brand new, someone must have got a Christmas present they didn't like and when winter came, out they went.

Intense. I still would have called the police. The next person may have not been as......hmm...lucky? Blessed?...,not sure what to use here, as you were. I don't know that I have made any commitment to not believing in a god. It just hasn't happened. It isn't something you choose to do. It is there or it isn't.

No you don't understand. Every time you ask a question and get an answer you can either get closer or further from understanding the truth about God. This is the meaning of this verse:

Isaiah 6:10 (New International Version)
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.[a]
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”

Note that there will come a time when you get so frustrated by your incapacity to understand this "truth about God" that you will have no option but to turn to God for healing. There's no escaping God, even after death you must answer to Him.

Thanks for the prayer. If anything happens I will let you know, but from what I see, I am oblivious to the obvious.

I don't know what you were expecting anyway. It wasn't a prayer to give you a reality of God's presence in your life, it was a prayer that meant, well, read it again and see what you think you should be expecting after making a prayer like this. Remember who we are addressing: He is the One who created the universe and the atom simply by telling it to happen.

lol I will do my best. Most of the proud ones will not like me a bit. I have a very good outlook on life and I don't get bent out of shape over silly things. Life is way too short to be prideful or bitter. Some people take life for granted. I never will. If you say anything "wrong" to me then go ahead and forget it. It was forgiven before it happened. I am too lighthearted to be offended.

Just make sure you tell me if you think I have said something wrong