LDS What exactly do you believe?

[He is the way]

Who said that the triune God is a man made concept?

Are you saying that the Nicene Creed is scripture?

 

[truefiction1]

Are you saying that the Nicene Creed is scripture?

I'm saying that God is Three Divine Persons, of one essence, because that is what the Bible teaches.

 

[He is the way]

I'm saying that God is Three Divine Persons, of one essence, because that is what the Bible teaches.

The Bible teaches they are one, nothing there about being of one substance or essence. They are perfect in one.

 

[truefiction1]

The Bible teaches they are one, nothing there about being of one substance or essence.

Are you saying that God (the Father) did not create all things through His Word and by His Spirit, Who are both essential Parts of His very own Being? Because this is precisely what is taught in the Bible, unmistakably.

In fact, it is the very first thing that is taught in the Bible, in the very first chapter of Genesis. Then the same teaching is given to us again in the very first chapter of John's Gospel.

 

[Jamesone5]

God the Father is the Father and God of Jesus Christ:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Truine God is a man made concept. The Jesus stated how they are one:

(New Testament | John 17:21 - 23)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we ARE one:

Sorry you don't get off the easy with you false interpretation of what it says. [which you notably did NOT provide] "we ARE one" and Jesus Himself acknowledged. You can fight and pretend that Trinity is nothing but a man made concept, but it is reality.
Goes in line with this verse, which I am sure you cannot explain the Mormon take on it as well.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the -Word with God, and the Word WAS God

Now you going to tell me WAS [from the Beginning]and ARE---- are not what they mean?

 

[pasifika]

What exactly do you believe? Do you believe human can become god and create reasonable beings? If this is so, we don't need God. We can create alone faithful servants of ourselves.

Hello...yes humans can become "gods" in the sense of being "children of God"..as the saying goes "like Father like son"....Not in the sense of human exalting himself to be like God and there is a difference between the two meaning of "humans to become gods" meaning....

 

[Jamesone5]

The Bible teaches they are one, nothing there about being of one substance or essence. They are perfect in one.

"Perfect in one" would add in that substance and essence. PERFECT, as opposed to imperfect where they really are not one. You worshiping an imperfect God?

 

[Rescued One]

God is not a created being. We are and are not the substance of our God.

 

[Rescued One]

Mormons teach that God the Father was once a man like us.



1 God Was Once a Man
As We Are Now
....
The Prophet Joseph Smith said:
“...It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth” (Teachings, pp. 345-46; italics in original).

President Brigham Young elaborated on this concept: “It must be that God knows something about temporal things, and has a body and been on an earth; were it not so He would not know how to judge men righteously, according to the temptations and sins they have had to contend with” (as cited by Harold B. Lee, in Conference Report, Apr. 1969, p. 130; or Improvement Era, June 1969, p. 104)...


2 Our Father Advanced and
Progressed Until He Became God (p. 152-153)

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).


President Joseph F. Smith taught: “I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions.... Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman” (Church News, 19 Sept. 1936, p. 2).

President Wilford Woodruff explained: “[God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children.....We are here to fill a probation and receive an education” (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p. 546).

How does it help us to know that the basic elements of God’s life in a mortal world were the same as ours? President Brigham Young explained:

“He is our Father—the Father of our Spirits—and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are....

“...There never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through....

“It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has been a finite being” (Deseret News, 16 Nov. 1859, p. 290).

(Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 152-153)



From THE KING FOLLETT SERMON (Ensign, April 1971):
These ideas are incomprehensible to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.

Eternal Life to Know God and Jesus Christ

I wish I was in a suitable place to tell it, and that I had the trump of an archangel, so that I could tell the story in such a manner that persecution would cease forever. What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it.

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me.

The King Follett Sermon

 

[He is the way]

Are you saying that God (the Father) did not create all things through His Word and by His Spirit, Who are both essential Parts of His very own Being? Because this is precisely what is taught in the Bible, unmistakably.

In fact, it is the very first thing that is taught in the Bible, in the very first chapter of Genesis. Then the same teaching is given to us again in the very first chapter of John's Gospel.

That is not what I said at all. God did create all things through His Son:

(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:33)

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

I said that they are not of the same substance or essence:

(New Testament | John 14:28)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

[He is the way]

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we ARE one:

Sorry you don't get off the easy with you false interpretation of what it says. [which you notably did NOT provide] "we ARE one" and Jesus Himself acknowledged. You can fight and pretend that Trinity is nothing but a man made concept, but it is reality.
Goes in line with this verse, which I am sure you cannot explain the Mormon take on it as well.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the -Word with God, and the Word WAS God

Now you going to tell me WAS [from the Beginning]and ARE---- are not what they mean?

For us there is one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

 

[truefiction1]

That is not what I said at all. God did create all things through His Son:

(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:33)

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

I said that they are not of the same substance or essence:

(New Testament | John 14:28)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

And how is it that they can be not of the same essence, since the Son is the very Eternal Word of God, as revealed in Scripture? Is the Word of God not God? Are you saying that the Word of God is "another god"? and not true God of true God, as revealed in Scripture?

 

[He is the way]

"Perfect in one" would add in that substance and essence. PERFECT, as opposed to imperfect where they really are not one. You worshiping an imperfect God?

Perfection has nothing to do with substance and essence. We can become perfected with them:

(New Testament | John 17:22 - 23)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[truefiction1]

And please don't bring any phony scripture into the conversation. It only confuses things as it's confused you.

 

[truefiction1]

You should also take care not conflate what is said with regards to the humanity of God the Word with what is proper to the Divine Person in Eternal relationship with the Father. This even further confuses you.

 

[truefiction1]

Perfection has nothing to do with substance and essence. We can become perfected with them:

(New Testament | John 17:22 - 23)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I wasn't making reference to perfection. I was referring to the triparite nature of God, which is clearly revealed in Scripture.

 

[He is the way]

And how is it that they can be not of the same essence, since the Son is the very Eternal Word of God, as revealed in Scripture? Is the Word of God not God? Are you saying that the Word of God is "another god"? and not true God of true God, as revealed in Scripture?

God the Father is our God and Father. Jesus Christ is our Lord and brother:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:5 - 6)

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

(New Testament | John 15:1)

1 I AM the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

(New Testament | Matthew 6:9)

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

 

[Jamesone5]

For us there is one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

You still have not answered how you can justify this verse:

(New Testament | John 17:22

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as WE ARE ONE:

If you cannot answer to one verse, what good are you as an Mormon Apologist? Simple enough with a simple prayer to God in His human flesh.

 

[truefiction1]

God the Father is our God and Father. Jesus Christ is our Lord and brother:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:5 - 6)

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

(New Testament | John 15:1)

1 I AM the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

(New Testament | Matthew 6:9)

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Again, all of these things said of Christ or which Christ says of Himself are done so with the humanity of God the Word in mind. They do not necessarily express things regarding the Eternal Word of the Father, through Whom all things are made that are made. "God said (through God's Word) let there be light, and there was light".

 

[Jamesone5]

Perfection has nothing to do with substance and essence. We can become perfected with them:
.

Oh, you have some Biblical proof that perfect DOES NOT add essence and substance? You think essence and substance is just flying out there waiting to be grabbed?
But then substance applies to another false Mormon claim that matter or substance cannot be created.

Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

there is your made perfect in one.