• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

What errors do you think exist within the KJV?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,343
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    First, I want to clarify that I do use Modern Translations to help update the language in the KJV, but the KJV is my final word of authority.

    Second, if you were to do a deep side by side comparison with the KJV (based upon Textus Receptus) vs. the Modern Translations (based upon the Critical Texts) you will discover that the Modern Translations are corrupt. If the Modern Translations are corrupt then their source (i.e. the Critical Texts) is corrupt. What am I talking about?

    Well, many Bible versions say that it is the dragon who is standing on the sea shore in Revelation. This is just evil and wrong.

    The NIV says in Revelation 13:1, "The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name."

    Yet, the KJV says in Revelation 13:1, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

    See, if you know anything about Bible language, standing on something means that you "own it"; And the devil wants to own you. In the King James, John is standing on the seashore. Yet in many Bible versions the dragon (i.e. the devil) is standing on the seashore.

    Why is this a problem?

    Let's look at...

    Genesis 22:17 says,
    "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

    Did you catch that? God says to Abraham that He will multiply his seed as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is upon the seashore where he will then possess the gate of his enemies (i.e. the devil and his kingdom). The apostle John who wrote Revelation was Jewish and he was the promised seed of Genesis 22 standing on the seashore in Revelation 13. It was not the dragon or the devil standing on the seashore.

    For certain Modern Versions eliminate the part of the passage in Revelation 13:1 that says that John is standing on the seashore (When he refers to himself as "I"). There are also other examples in Scripture where the devil tries to place his name in place of God, as well. It's very disturbing.

    Also, the devil tries to take out key points in important discussions within the Bible (Which can affect doctrine). For example: In Romans 7 Paul talks from the Jew's perspective in keeping the Old Testament Law (Which leads to problems), and he gives us the climax or heart of his message as a solution in Romans 8:1. Now, certain modern translations have eliminated "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Eliminating this passage destroys the whole thrust of Paul's argument. Walking in the Spirit is the key to being in Christ Jesus. You eliminate that and you destroy Paul's argument. Also, 1 John 5:7 is the only verse in the Bible that is the clearest and most concise teaching on the Godhead (i.e. the Trinity).

    No they wouldn't. They would see the corruptions in these texts and reject them. Like I said, the devil's name is placed for God's name, and key doctrines and truths are watered down and eliminated.

    I will admit that many of my fellow KJV-onlyists are a little irrational on this point. They refuse to look at Modern Translations so as to help update the 1600's English that they are not familar with. This can lead them to the wrong conclusion on what the Bible is saying many times. So I am in agreement with you that KJV-onlyists should NOT just stick to reading the KJV alone. My point is that there can be only ONE Word of God that can be our FINAL Word of authority in the end; And the KJV wins hands down in this department. The bread crumbs or clues are there for those who want to see it.

    Not true. First, we have no way of knowing what the Greek and Hebrew says without looking at the English. For none of these scholars grew up in Biblical times. Second, not all scholars agree with each other. So somebody within the crowd of scholars is playing a game of smoke and mirrors with us.

    Okay. So there are groups of scholars who all agree on certain things that are false. Granted, not everything they believe in the Bible is false. I am saying just certain things they believe are.

    If I told you that a new unflown plane was built on the essence of what the blue prints say, you would not want to fly in that plane. The same should be true for the Bible. Why trust your soul with a book that could be potentially corrupted in places? For me, I would want the real deal. The pure source. The true Word of God.

    Hell and hades to me is the same thing. Words can have different meanings even in our own language.
    For example: I can say that,

    "The dog's bark could be heard all the way down the street, He scratched his paws against the bark of tree at the squirrel up in the tree (hoping to get the little guy)."​

    As you can see there are two words spelled as "bark" but yet they have two different meanings. These are called homonyms and they do exist in the Bible (as I am sure you aware of).

    I believe in Dualistic Conditional Immortality. This is the belief that "hell" is a real place but after the Judgment, the Lake of Fire will destroy or erase the wicked after they are punished for their sins. Granted, I do not believe "hell" is a torture chamber or anything, either.

    For in the story of "Lazarus and the Rich-man", I believe the rich-man was either:

    (a) Tormented by the heat of the flame nearby him.
    (b) Slightly discomforted by an unworldly flame that would not cause horrible pain like a real world flame would.​

    For the rich-man was not crying out in pain like a normal person would if they were engulfed by a real fire.
    I also believe that the wicked potentially go through long periods of sleep in hell or hades.

    The word "forever" (i.e. for ever) in the KJV is not teaching Eternal Concious Torment. It is saying that something is "forever" as long as that thing exists. So they are tormented in the Lake of Fire, but.... this is only as long as the Lake of Fire exists (Which of course is temporary).

    Take for example Philemon 1:15.

    For it says,

    "For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;" (Philemon 1:15 KJV).​

    This is talking about Onesimus. Here is what it says in the New Living Translation,

    15 "It seems you lost Onesimus for a little while so that you could have him back forever.
    16 He is no longer like a slave to you. He is more than a slave, for he is a beloved brother, especially to me. Now he will mean much more to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord." (Philemon 1:15-16 NLT).

    In other words, Onesimus did not return to his master for all eternity here upon this Earth. Onesimus is not still alive. He is not an immortal or anything of that nature. He was mortal and he died. This text is saying that Onesimus went back to his master forever only in view or context to HERE on this Earth. It is not a contradiction. I can say to my wife that I will love her forever as a husband. This is not a contradiction but a metaphor.

    It doesn't sound wrong when I read it.
    It fits the context just fine.

    8 "...he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
    9 For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance."
    (Deuteronomy 32:8-9).

    Jesus spoke in parables for a reason. So yes; I think the KJV is perfect. The evidence simply says that it is perfect.

    This why I would encourage people to use Modern Translations. But I would caution them to make the KJV their final Word of authority because the Modern Translations are clearly corrupt BIG TIME.

    But you are guessing that the history you have been told or the documents you have looked at are true. You take it by faith that such is so. When the reality of the matter is that all you have to do is a fruits test on the KJV vs. the Modern Translations to see which one is superior. If you are objective and seeking the truth, you come to discover what I have. If you don't want to see it, then you will continue to see what you have always seen.

    So you are saying that the number 40 is in no way related to a trial or test of any kind and that is just a coincidence of the text? That it is a coincidence that Noah was in a trial in the Ark when it rained for 40 days and 40 nights just as Jesus was in a trial when He fasted in the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights? This is just coinidence?

    In fact, the Bible actually tells you to a count a specific number as a part of wisdom.

    "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." Revelation 13:18).

    Is it a coincidence that Ecclesiastes 7:25 and Ecclesiastes 7:27 that talks about wisdom and counting things just so happens to be within the 666th chapter of the Bible (i.e. Ecclesiastes 7), and yet it also relates to the same verse that tells us to count the number 666 (so as to gain meaning) as a part of wisdom in Revelation 13:8? Is this a coincidence, too?

    Check out my evidences for the Bible at my blogger article here:

    Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

    Anyways, I say all these things not to wound you in any way, but I say these things in love so to lead you closer to trusting God's Word all the more.

    I hope what I said today helps.
    May God bless you;
    And may you please be well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,343
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    So you talked with Moses about this?
     
  3. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +2,733
    Christian
    Private
    Again, since neither of us can talk to Moses this argument is not beneficial to determining the context and meaning of the text, as I can ask you the same question.
     
  4. Neal of Zebulun

    Neal of Zebulun Active Member

    326
    +129
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    That said, read the part in the same letter where he tells us what to do when one of us sins: 1 John 5
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,343
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    No. You cannot ask me the same question because I am not trusting the Hebrew. I am trusting the Word of God in my own language. There is a difference.
     
  6. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,163
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    We still have free will, but the desire to sin is gone. So if we sin anyway, that is willful sin. It is essentially rebellion against God. Someone who loves God will not sin willfully.
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,343
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Acts 7:37
    KJB: This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

    ESV: This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, 'God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers.'

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Acts 8:37
    KJB: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

    ESV: Omitted

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Romans 8:1
    KJB: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    ESV: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    1 Corinthians 6:20
    KJB: For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

    ESV: for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    1 Corinthians 7:39
    KJB: The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

    ESV: A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    1 Corinthians 15:47
    KJB: The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    ESV: The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Galatians 3:1
    KJB: O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

    ESV: O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ephesians 3:9
    KJB: And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

    ESV: and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things,

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ephesians 3:14
    KJB: For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    ESV: For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ephesians 5:30
    KJB: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

    ESV: because we are members of his body.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Colossians1:14
    KJB: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

    ESV: in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    1 Timothy 3:16
    KJB: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    ESV: Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hebrews 7:21
    KJB: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

    ESV: but this one was made a priest with an oath by the one who said to him: "The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, 'You are a priest forever.'"

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    1 John 5:13
    KJB: These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    ESV: I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Revelation 20:12
    KJB: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    ESV: And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  8. Neal of Zebulun

    Neal of Zebulun Active Member

    326
    +129
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    But when we do sin a sin not unto death, we can be forgiven and brought back into the Body of Christ through prayer.

    I essentially agree, it is our flesh that wants to sin, but the inner man/woman does not. Paul mentions this state of being, this struggle to not sin, will continue until we receive our new heavenly bodies. 1 Corinthians 15:35-58
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,343
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I trust the KJV because the Modern Translations have proven themselves to be corrupt and you read your Bible in English and not Hebrew and Greek.
     
  10. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

    +428
    Anabaptist
    Celibate
    Yes ..Hallelujah . We make our boast in God , not in man. If nothing else, we can see by history and in ourselves what we can "bring to the table" as it were ...which is vanity. I am so thankful for God and His gift , Jesus Christ whereby in His unfathomable wisdom, mercy , love/compassion, He chose to have us justified by His blood. Who could have seen that coming ? Be fruitful and multiply by and through His grace.
     
  11. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

    +428
    Anabaptist
    Celibate
    My dear brother ..I thank God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ for you. This is a wonderful bit of understanding that our Lord has revealed to you through your particular gift that He gave. I recall how our brother Paul mentions the whole body jointly fit together in Ephesians 4:16 ..each part supplying something for the edifying of the whole body. I often wonder and this is mere speculation but based on scripture ..I wonder if the body became separate due to a lack of humility. The inability to recognize that some things are hidden by God from me or not given to me and will always be hidden . For example although the eye may want to hear, it never will ....ever. It must find " the ear " of Christ . And likewise the ear may want to see but of course never will. Paul alludes to this and I wonder if this is not also the wisdom of God so that we may stay humble ...giving glory to God for those things we do perceive and realizing that we do not know what we do not know. Nor can we see what we do not see.
    I try to be particularly careful on sites like this when a " different point of view " can lead to strife and debate verses Godly edifying . I wonder if we ( the body of lour Lord Jesus ) all would be better served if we wrote meekly and prayerfully with the awareness that we might not see what someone else has been shown ...anyway , be blessed in your part to glorify God through the edifying of the body of our Lord until He return.
    PS ..Interesting that Paul mentions that if you have a controversy in the body, go to the least esteemed member for his opinion ...my take on that is ...go to the day laborer ( or slave in his day ) and see what his take is on it !
     
  12. Neal of Zebulun

    Neal of Zebulun Active Member

    326
    +129
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    You bring up some great points. I'll try to keep them in mind.

    I also try to remember that there's a spiritual war going on (Ephesians 6:10-20), and that there is an enemy (Matthew 7:21-23.)

    I do think a lack of humility is involved in members becoming separate from the Body of Christ, but that it ultimately comes down to not obeying Yahweh, even from the Garden of Eden to the very end: (2 Thessalonians 1:5-12, Revelation 14:12, John 14:15, 1 John 5:16, Ecclesiastes 12:12-14.)

    Thank you for your kindness, it is a rare gift in itself! Praise be to Yahweh for His children, through Yahushua Messiah, in the Holy Spirit, amen.
     
  13. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,163
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    I believe when Jesus told the Church of Ephesus in Rev. 2 that they had lost their first love, and told them they must go back and do the first works, I believe He meant they must repent from the sin they allowed back into their lives and start from there. It all has to do with the degree of our love for God, whether we will sin or not.
     
  14. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

    +575
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Others
    It is a problem, because for the attempt of trying to make Scripture "easy to read" -
    they have turned a truth into a lie. So thus they are "easily now reading a lie", they think is truth, because it is appearing in what is being called Scripture.

    We could continue with more modern "easy to read" language....
    Cool means hot.
    Bad means good.
    Hot means very acceptable.
    Sick mean very acceptable.
    Tricked out means very cool.
    Bad A$$ is very cool.
    on and on and on we could make Scripture more "easy to read", and turn the whole of Scriptures into a lie, and call them the Word of God.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  15. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

    +2,964
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    Nothing of these differences result in a different teaching or understanding.
    An in stead of omitting things, things can be added too, to clarify, emphasize or glorify.
    Things like the mixing up of hell, hades and the lake of fire, or misinterpreting Deuteronomy 32:8-9 however, do result in a difference in teaching or understanding.
     
  16. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

    +2,964
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    So the truth is always difficult to read?
     
  17. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

    +2,964
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    That is weird indeed.
    NIV (the manuscript they used) doesn't make sense there.
    From what i understand, this 'Lazarus and the rich man' story was a traditional story among Jews in those days, but Jesus used it to make a point, so it's an analogy.​
    Likewise to you brother.
    I didn't answer everything you wrote.
    But i want to get back to Deuteronomy 32:8-9 again, because it's important i.m.o.
    Maybe i should open a new topic about it, because it doesn; t matter which Bible has it worng or right, the question is what would be correct.
    I use the KJV and the ESV as examples of the difference.
    We could use other translations that differ here too.
    (i'm not an 'ESV-only-ist' either ;) )

    KJV:
    8 When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
    9 For the Lord's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.


    ESV:
    8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
    9 But the Lord's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.


    I can see that verse 9 in both cases make sense with verse 8, because KJV says "For" and the ESV says "But".
    But when you look at Genesis 10, there are 70 nations as a result of God mixing up the languages, and they, except for Jacob, were divided among the gods = the divine council of Pslams 82.
    But Jacob wasn't even born when the nations were divided, let alone his sons.
     
  18. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +2,733
    Christian
    Private
    And what about the KJV translators? Did they look to the Hebrew language or consult directly with Moses? What of other translations that differ, are they less of the word of God then the KJV is? I don't just mean modern English translations but all translations in any language.
     
  19. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +2,733
    Christian
    Private
    I speak more than one language and I study passages to try and best understand its original context and meaning this includes the original languages as well as other languages than English.

    If you say all modern English translations are corrupted then what about the other languages? Are they only correct when they agree with the KJV? At what point do we study the original language to understand the text?
     
  20. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

    +575
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Others
    I don't find the truth difficult to read. And I do not find paraphrased Bibles always inline with the intent of Scripture.
    But then it is in fashion to dumb down and call it excellence ~

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
Loading...