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Featured What errors do you think exist within the KJV?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Arthur B Via

    Arthur B Via Art Supporter

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  2. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Hi Jason, I haven't been following the conversation, just read yours I'm replying to. I just want to say that there are a lot of Hebrew idioms that have a specific meaning unrelated to the actual words in English. Just like Americans say "someone let the cat out of the bag," meaning someone told the birthday boy of his surprise birthday party and spoiled the surprise. A Russian would still be scratching his head picturing a poor trapped kitty tied up in a gunny sack being let loose. It is also important to understand Semitic styles of writing. We've discussed this before with regards to 1 John 1 and the contrasts of every other verse contrasting light vs. darkness.

    Knowing these things about the Hebrew culture and their styles of writing and idioms are important to understanding the Word of God in English.
     
  3. Neal of Zebulun

    Neal of Zebulun Active Member

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    Like this verse:

    Matthew 19:
    24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    If I remember correctly, "the eye of a needle" is referring to a very tiny gate in the city wall which a camel could hardly fit through.

    The idea is that a rich man would be packing a lot of stuff on that camel, which he would have to unpack to get the camel through "the eye of the needle." Thus it would be time consuming and difficult for a rich man, but easier for a poor man with hardly any stuff!
     
  4. Neal of Zebulun

    Neal of Zebulun Active Member

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    Here's another example:

    Proverbs 7:
    2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.​

    The word in Hebrew that is translated as "apple" literally means "pupil," that is the dark part of your eye which is used to directly focus on something. So keep your eyes on it, in other words.

    Honestly though, I think "apple" is even more idiomatic than the Hebrew in this case!
     
  5. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You might appreciate the following link.
    The camel and the eye of the needle, Hebrew NT Application - Biblical Hebrew
     
  6. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    BTW, not one of the English translations translate "Jacob" correctly in the New Testament (they all translate as "James"). They all also mislabel Paul's letters to the Thessalonikians as "Thessalonians" which actually refers to the people of the region of Thessaly, whereas Thessaloniki is the capital of the region of Makedonia.
     
  7. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    "Jesus" should also be "Joshua", but unfortunately all our English translations have come by way of the Latin.
     
  8. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    One error that few people are aware of is the translation of "ακριδες" as "locusts" in Matthew 3:4 and Mark 1:6 which the Greeks have always understood as "tender shoots. The Latins unfortunately got it wrong and the error has propagated into pretty much every translation since.
     
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  9. Quid est Veritas?

    Quid est Veritas? In Memoriam to CS Lewis

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    You are mistaken. An inhabitant of Thessaly is a Thessalian in English, and an inhabitant of Thessalonica a Thessalonian.

    Personally I prefer my NT names by way of Latin. I love the fact that something 'of James' is Jacobean.

    Jesus entered English as Jesu or Jesus, with Joshua being a much later import. Both versions are alterations of the original name for other languages' orthography, so I see no reason to think Joshua 'more correct' than Jesus.

    This is a dubious reading, as far as I am aware. Locusts are highly nutritious, while the shoots or seedpods that this would refer to are not. Other instances of the word point to the insect anyway.
     
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  10. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Perhaps. The "niki" part of Thessaloniki is an important part of the name, and the fact that it is lost in the name "Thessalonians" strongly suggests a misnomer. In Greek it is "pros Thessalonikis".
    I'm not fussed, just coming at it from a Greek background with the Septuagint Old Testament, both Joshua and Jesus are spelled exactly the same in the Greek.
    It is the only reading in the Orthodox Church in Greece, and has been for 2000 years. Nobody thought to ask, apparently.
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    It's so strange. I see huge problems with the verse omittions that I gave you in the ESV for they are eliminating or watering down important truths essential to what those verses are saying. Yet, you are having problems with a verse that appears to be in context and you have trouble with a word that appears to say the same thing (i.e. hades vs. hell). Maybe you didn't closely look at the underlined differences of what was omitted, but you should probably go back and check them out.
     
  12. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    That has absolutely nothing to do with knowing a dead language. You cannot have the 100% certainty of knowing a dead language without trusting the English version of the Word of God. You did not grow up speaking and writing Hebrew and Greek amongst that culture. Also, as I am sure you are aware of, if you speak other languages, what is taught in the text books is not always what is spoken exactly by every city in that country. I know, my wife is from Brazil and I tried to say certain words to her and she says, this city says this word a bit different or the word is not so common to use (and another phrase is used instead), etc.

    This is not complicated. Only one Bible can be the Word of God. We do not follow many Bibles or faiths. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. Your faith is based upon the Bible. But if not all Bibles say the same thing, then that means you have many faiths if you believe them all? Surely not. How about the Hebrew and Greek? Is that it? But there is the Textus Receptus texts and the Critical texts. Which one is the right one? Both? No. They both do not say the same thing. So one has to choose. God is not the author of confusion in giving you mixed messages. God chooses certain languages through out time to preserve His Word perfectly. Not all Bibles are the same.

    The King James is available in a few other languages.

    Textus Receptus in Spanish (RVG 2010) https://www.amazon.com/Santa-Biblia-Rústica-Valera-Spanish/dp/0758907567/
    King James Francais in French http://www.kingjamesfrancaise.net
    Koning Jacobus Vertaling in Dutch http://www.koningjacobusvertaling.org/info_english.php
    Bibelen Guds Ord in Norwegian http://www.hermon.no/netbibelen/
    Thai King James Bible Welcome to the Thailand Home Page
    Korean King James Version https://www.amazon.com/Korean-English-Bible-Leather-Golden/dp/B005DPPENA/

    As for other languages: It depends on their hunger for having a perfect Word of God and or our hunger to give it to them (According to God's will). But to whom much is given, much is required.

    Yes, for the KJV has proven itself to be a divine and 100% true preservation of God's Word in three ways.

    #1. God's Word says that it is perfect and that it will be preserved for all generations. This means that there must be ONE perfect Word of God that we can find for our generation today. This would be most likely in a language that has the most potential impact globally like a world language. Today's world language is English.

    #2. Doing a side by side comparison of the KJV (from the Textus Receptus) vs. the Modern Translations (from the Critical Text) shows us the superiority of the KJV and the corruption of Modern Translations. This does not mean we throw away Modern Translations but we simply do not make them our final word of authority like the KJV. Only one Word of God should be a person's final word authority and not many Words of God. For do we just pick and choose which Word of God fits what we like to believe. There is a Queen James Bible out there. Should we trust that translation?

    #3. Biblical Numerics. The KJV is proven to be true through a basic study of the meaning behind the numbers in God's Word. There are studies of numbers and their meaning that do not appear in Modern Translations but they appear in the KJV. Now, is the study of numbers in God's Word bad? No. As long as a person does not use them to tell the future or to give themselves good fortune. The numbers in God's Word simply gives adding meaning for us and shows us that it is the Word of God. For example: The number 40 has the meaning "trial" attached to it. Noah was in a trial of the storm within the Ark for 40 days and 40 nights. It's not easy being on a boat with a ton of animals during one of the worst storms in human history. Jesus was within a trial when He fasted for 40 days and 40 nights. So to say that numbers should not be studied is silly because we can clearly see that the Bible does ascribe meaning to them. I would recommend checking out Mike Hoggard's videos called the King James Code at YouTube. His videos on the number 7 and number 8 are mind blowing.

    You can study the original language. I have no problem in you doing that. But it should not conflict with what is said in the King James. For the King James was translated from Hebrew and Greek. A study of the original languages should be a compliment to what is said in the KJV and not a replacement.
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Good morning 1stCenturyLady;
    And God bless you this fine day.

    I agree that we should know figures of speech within the Bible more. Because Christians are not always aware of the proper figures of speech:
    Most Christians misunderstand what happened in the Story of Noah and Ham (See this CF thread here);
    And most Christians misunderstand the beginning relationship that Hosea and Gomer had (See this CF thread here).

    I believe the KJV has left in more of the figures of speech within the Bible and many of the Modern Translations have removed many (not all) of them.

    I have been meaning to do a study sometime on fgures of speech or metonomy used in the Bible. For it is important because we use slang all the time in our own language.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    God says in His Word that His Word is perfect and that it would be preserved for all generations.
    In fact, if somebody were to try and destroy God's Word, we see that God would protect or preserve His Word. We see an example of this in Jeremiah 36:22-32 where king Jehoiakim burns the scroll in a fire (i.e. to eliminate God's Word) and then later God has Jeremiah re-create another roll that says the same thing. In other words, the written Word could not be destroyed by fire, just as the Living Word cannot be destroyed by fire. For the fourth who was in the fiery furnace with Daniel's friends was the Son of God (Daniel 3:25).

    So God has the power to intervene directly and protect the preservation of His Word when it is needed at the right time.

    Yes. All of them that differ from the KJV are sort of like a watered down version of the Word of God. However, this does not mean that certain basic truths like salvation through Christ, living holy through the Lord, etc. are not taught within these other versions; But knowing the whole truth on many verses or passages is just not possible because words have been omitted and changed. But to whom much is given, much is required. KJV folk actually have more responsibility with having the pure Word than those who do not have it.
     
  15. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does make a difference when you compare single verses, but not when read in context.
     
  16. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

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  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Hence, the problem with Modern Translations and why you should not put your trust in them. Only the KJV can be trusted. In fact, this is not the only time the devil has tried to place his name in the Bible in exchange for something that is supposed to be sacred or holy. We see the devil tries to place his name in Modern Translations in Daniel 3.

    In Daniel 3, the Babylonian king says there is one like the "Son of God" in the fiery furnace along with Daniel's three friends. This is Jesus! Yet, in the Modern Translations it says the "son of the gods." In many false religions we can see how certain gods had mated with human females and created a hybrid. This is popular even in Greek mythology. So who saved Daniel's friends? Jesus or some hybrid like Hercules?

    Nebuchadnezzar thought this was an angel of God (singular and not plural).

    "Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God." (Daniel 3:28).

    This was not the "son of the gods (plural) (little "g")!!!
    No way Hosea! I mean, "No way José!"
    Nebuchadnezzar clearly was referencing the most high God.
    The Bible says (even something similar in your Modern Version),

    "Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire." (Daniel 3:26).

    Angels are called the: "sons of God" in Job.

    The fourth person in the fire was still Jesus! The son of God. The Scriptures were still correct in their inspiration by God when they say, "and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." While Nebuchadnezzar did not know it was the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity, the Lord our God who inspired Scripture surely would have glorified the name of the Son of God (Jesus) in this instance. For it was Jesus who was in the fire with Daniel's three friends!

    Also, please check out this thread here, as well. It will help to explain this situation a little better, too.

    Jesus is the Messenger of the Lord in the Old Testament.
    (Please take note: I do not believe Jesus is an angelic being; I believe Jesus is the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity and that He is fully 100% God who took on the flesh of man).

    In Isaiah 14:12, the devil's name "Lucifer" is replaced with "Day Star" or the "Morning Star."
    Yes, I am aware that "morning stars" are angels in the book of Job.

    But Modern Translations also say this is the Shining Star or the Son of the Dawn. Why?

    Jesus says,
    "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelation 22:16).

    So Jesus is the BRIGHT and MORNING star!

    Yet, the individual in Isaiah 14:12 in Modern Translations is called the shining (bright) and morning star or the Day Star, etc.

    So the devil is trying to be like the most high here. He is taking a similar sounding title of Jesus in Isaiah 14:12.

    For where is the bright and morning star up in the sky?
    It is the sun.
    That is why He is called the bright and morning star because the sun is bright and rises in the morning.

    Also, Lucifer means "light bearer."
    Scripture tells us this is what it means.

    "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14).

    The word "angel" also means "messenger." So 2 Corinthians 11:14 is saying that Satan is a light messenger or light bearer. In fact, when Satan is described with having all kinds of jewelry on him, it was symbolic of who he was. Certain gemstones refract light. They are not light themselves, but they merely reflect whatever light is in existence. Gemstones are like little light bearers. So how fitting the name "Lucifer" is for the devil. Yet, Modern Translations seek to give the devil a name that is similar to Jesus. This is wrong (of course).

    But this could simply be a made up story by a false group of Israelites. We do not really know that such a thing is true or not. We have to take God's Word at face value unless it says otherwise. In fact, we know that the story is literal because we see other instances in the Bible of where men can die and experience the after life. So the idea of a 100% soul sleep is not Biblical. Note: I believe the wicked will go through long periods of sleep in hell. But there are other verses that suggest that they are awake at certain times, too. This makes sense because it lines up with reality or our real world whereby we sleep part of the day and we are awake part of the day.

    Yeah, not sure how that passage is a problem. For me it is clear in what it says.

    There can only be ONE Word of God and not many.

    I really do not see a change here. Both the ESV and the KJV can be true in this particular passage. With the KJV: God set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel because the Lord's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. It is not a contradiction or a problem to say this either way. But I would stick to the KJV in this instance because that it is the pure Word of God here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Modern Translations like the ESV is eliminating important truths that we need to know (By which I have shown to you already). So I disagree big time.
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Take for example 2 Timothy 2:15. It says,
    "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

    So God's Word here is commanding you to study the Scriptures to show yourself approved unto God. Yet, Modern Translations say something else. They say things like make every effort to make yourself approved unto God. But being approved of by God is not just blind action. One has to first study God's Word and rightly divide the Word of truth.

    1 Corinthians 6:20 says we are to glorify God not only in our body but we are also to glorify Him in our spirit, which are God's. The ESV leaves out glorifying God in our spirit and saying that our body and spirit are God's. There is no mention of this elsewhere in the immediate context.

    Romans 8:1 talks about the Condemntion as not just being in Christ Jesus but ALSO walking after the Spirit. To change this is to change what the Condemnation is.

    1 John 5:7 is the clearest teaching on the Trinity in the Bible. But if you have a Modern Translation, you really will not see such a clear teaching. In fact, many today have bought into the lie that this verse was not supposed to be in their Bible and that it was added later. That is silly.

    See this article here:
    Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7) - King James Version Today

    1 Corinthians 7:39 in the ESV gives us false information. It says a wife is bound by her husband and yet the trusted KJV says that the a wife is bound by the Law as long as her husband lives. In other words, one has to be married by law and they are bound by that law as long as the husband lives. Yet, the ESV would rather have us believe it was not this way.

    1 Corinthians 15:47 says that the second man is the Lord from heaven and yet the ESV says that the second man is from heaven and does not call Him Lord. This to me is a big problem. It is not until verse 56 until the ESV mentions Jesus. Who is the second man? Second man is from heaven but is He Lord? The ESV does not say.

    In Ephesians 3:9 it is clear Jesus created all things, and yet the ESV does not make this fact clear in Ephesians 3 at all. It implies it is just God the Father who created all things.

    In Ephesians 3:14 it says we are to bow to Jesus. Yet, Ephesians 3 in the ESV eliminates this truth.

    Colossians 1:14 says we have redemption through HIS BLOOD. Yet, the ESV leaves out the blood.

    1 Timothy 3:16 says GOD was manifested in the flesh. Yet, the ESV leaves out the fact that God was manifest in the flesh. So it is a corrupt Bible.
     
  20. Neal of Zebulun

    Neal of Zebulun Active Member

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    Isaiah 5:
    25 Therefore is the anger of Yahweh kindled against his people..​

    26 And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly:​

    Is Yahweh a snake? It should be more like "whistle," like one does to trigger a dog to go on the attack.

    Here's the entry for the word in a KJV dictionary. You'll notice it doesn't really say it's a positive thing:
    HISS

    But here's a positive example:

    Zechariah 10:
    7 ..their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in Yahweh.​

    8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.​

    Again, like one whistles to gather attention, to call to order.

    This is a dictionary from 1768, where you can look up the word "hiss" and you will find that it is not a positive word at all:
    A dictionary of the English language. Abstracted from the folio ed., by the author. To which is prefixed, an English grammar. To this ed. are added, a history of the English language [&c.].

    This is just the wrong word for these verses.
     
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