What errors and inventions arose in Roman Catholicism?

[tadoflamb]

Is that the view of mainstream Christianity today, including the EOC?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7636710-2/
Revelation 12 and Mary Orthodox view







.

There was an anti-Catholic video posted on another thread where the two hosts, in between their self-congratulating and trying to sell their book, explained how the woman in Revelation 12 couldn't be the Blessed Mother.

They also mentioned there are two main protestant interpretations of the same verse. Go figure, they don't know the true interpretation, it just can't be the Catholic one.

 

[Erose]

That is not what I said, I bow to no man.

Not even to Christ?

But you gave examples that did not relate to what you were defending,

Yes they do relate. See that is the problem here. You guys really don't believe that there are actually men and women in heaven, who are alive and well, and are before God every moment praying for us. Mary isn't dead, Pteriax, she is alive.

which is idolatry by the way.

You obviously have a misunderstanding of idolatry.

 

[Metal Minister]

Let's see...Jesus' birth, the intercession of Mary at the wedding feast at Cana

Intercession? She told Jesus they were out of wine, and He then said "Woman, why are you saying this to me? My time has not yet come." (the use of "woman" to address her is a Hebrew way to distance oneself from the one you're speaking to. It's not rude, but very abrupt.)

, at the foot of the Cross,

You'll have to explain what she did at the foot of the cross, other than to have Jesus fulfill Jewish tradition to take care of widows. (It's also possible He was making the connection that both were believers, and so part of the believers family.)

and at least one more, in Revelation 12.

Mary is not mentioned in Revelations.

 

[Pteriax]

Actually, it was Jesus mandate to be Catholic-to be part of the universal Church He instituted...

False. There should not be a capitol 'C' in there. Furthermore, He did not institute the RCC.

 

[Pteriax]

Let's see...Jesus' birth, the intercession of Mary at the wedding feast at Cana, at the foot of the Cross, and at least one more, in Revelation 12.

It all fits into just one short sentence. BTW where does Revelation say "Mary" at all?

 

[Pteriax]

Revelation 12 shows her as crowned. She's in heaven because she's sinless. Ever-virgin, because there's no account of her having had other children.

False. Thomas, James, Judas (not Iscariot), and I think one other are mentioned as names of Jesus' brothers. Mat 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31.

She is / was also not sinless. Luke 2:23-25.

Revelation has no mention of Mary at all. The woman in Revelation 12:1-6 is either Israel or the Church.

 

[Metal Minister]

Revelation has no mention of Mary at all. The woman in Revelation 12:1-6 is either Israel or the Church.

It's Israel.

 

[Pteriax]

Not even to Christ?

Don't be ridiculous. If Christ stood before me I don't think I could bow low enough. He is man and God, not the queen of England. Give it up with the straw man arguments and stop putting words in my mouth.

Yes they do relate. See that is the problem here. You guys really don't believe that there are actually men and women in heaven, who are alive and well, and are before God every moment praying for us. Mary isn't dead, Pteriax, she is alive.

I am sure she is alive. But she is not omnipresent, that is reserved for only God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

You obviously have a misunderstanding of idolatry.

LOL! This coming from a Catholic! Icons = Idols. Play word games all you want, you can't change the TRUTH. Thou shalt not make an image of anything that is in heaven or earth, and thou shalt now bow to them!

 

[Tzaousios]

LOL! This coming from a Catholic! Icons = Idols. Play word games all you want, you can't change the TRUTH. Thou shalt not make an image of anything that is in heaven or earth, and thou shalt now bow to them!

Icons are not the same as statues. What was that you said about using history to inform your positions? It is beginning to sound like you do that quite sparingly if not selectively.

 

[Aviela]

...
I put up the "post link" for each one mentioned here. The duplicates that I could see I put in "RED"......Thanks

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43628489

Scholasticism
Filioque
Papal Supremacy
Immaculate Conception

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43630346

Inventions:
-Infallability of the Pope
-Papal supremacy
-Immaculate coneption
-purgatory
Errors:
-Vatican I and II(not the councells but their decisions....although II was worse than I)
-indulgencies
-crusades
-Vatican City.... (never should have been a "seperate state"but goes hand in hand with the Papal supreority)

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43629206

Hmmmmm, let me think on that one..................................................................................................

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43630926
um, I got one, well kind of, not an error by the Pope but some errors made by a Catholic King and Catholic Monk.
Luthernism and Anglicanism

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43632320
None

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43636094

I'm going to have to go with Mr. O'Briens answer.

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43636190
Change in Paschalion.

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43636780
Lack of fasting. [of which post # 36 clarifies what is meant]

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43636255

*snip*

Crusades.

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43646993

*snip*
......so you see LLoJ...the RCC or any "business" that is involved in day to day ops certainly can't allow ALL MEN to believe in Him...the only ones who are allowed to believe are those who ADHERE to their particular organizations DOCTRINE...because THAT is the FORCE they use to keep their CUSTOMERS...and if you don't buy into ANY "churches" system...they will DAMN YOU TO BURN ALIVE...

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43652400

assumption of mary

submission to the pope of Rome being absolutely neccessary for salvation

penance to atone for sins committed after baptism

auricular confession

sacerdotal sacramentalism

meritorious works for the attainment of salvation

the whole Roman system of justification

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870.../#post43668261
Lateran IV

Unam Sanctum

Trent

Vatican I

Vatican II

the papacy

the Marian dogmas

the dogma of papal infallibility

auricular confession and penance

sacerdotal sacramentalism

purgatory

indugences

transubstantiation

and admit that the Roman religion was built upon the deceptions and frauds of forgeries invented during the dark ages
.

Not sure I'd agree all of these are mistakes etc. For instance what part of the Crusades would one say was the mistake? The whole of it or parts of it? However, there are some things in the history of the church that have been definite problems...such as indulgences. Interesting topic but difficult to discuss in a way that won't offend.

 

[Pteriax]

Icons are not the same as statues. What was that you said about using history to inform your positions? It is beginning to sound like you do that quite sparingly if not selectively.

Idols aren't always statues either. I said icons = idols, not statues. Statues are only one kind of idol.

 

[Aviela]

Idols aren't always statues either. I said icons = idols, not statues. Statues are only one kind of idol.

Yes, and they're only an idol if we worship them.

 

[Tzaousios]

Idols aren't always statues either. I said icons = idols, not statues. Statues are only one kind of idol.

But icons are not idols unless they are worshiped. If you had looked into the history of it like you claim to do you would no this. The cop-out of the "thebiblesaysitIbelieveitthatsettlesit" will not work here to cover up the fact that you are self-validating your presuppositions concerning Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I reckon that this thread's title gives a clue of where the discussion will go

 

[Root of Jesse]

Intercession? She told Jesus they were out of wine, and He then said "Woman, why are you saying this to me? My time has not yet come." (the use of "woman" to address her is a Hebrew way to distance oneself from the one you're speaking to. It's not rude, but very abrupt.)

And yet he did as she asked. She interceded. He called her woman to connect her to Eve.

You'll have to explain what she did at the foot of the cross, other than to have Jesus fulfill Jewish tradition to take care of widows. (It's also possible He was making the connection that both were believers, and so part of the believers family.)

She was there. Sometimes, being there is all we can do. It speaks volumes that she could be there seeing her son, having been mutilated, hanging there like a criminal. It also speaks volumes that you see nothing in this act.

Mary is not mentioned in Revelations.

The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars. The child she gives birth to is Jesus. Then the woman is Mary.

 

[Aviela]

But icons are not idols unless they are worshiped.

I've said the same and agree but to be fair there are some that do treat icons as idols. Not saying this is what a liturgical church promotes but .... it seems to be a reality for some.

 

[Tzaousios]

I've said the same and agree but to be fair there are some that do treat icons as idols. Not saying this is what a liturgical church promotes but .... it seems to be a reality for some.

Indeed, but Pteriax refuses to make the distinction in order to be able to utilize it as an indictment of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.

 

[Aviela]

Indeed, but Pteriax refuses to make the distinction in order to be able to utilize it as an indictment of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.

I think it can be true for every church (people) that we need to lead by example too and not just by what we say. Many churches can have a certain formal view but it may not always be followed by congregants.

 

[Hizikyah]

The list is too long, I think this is the most important one:

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to
change ltimes; Yahweh's Feast Days, and Laws."

Amazing video explaing the CatholicChurch

And upon her head a name was written - YouTube

 

[Erose]

Don't be ridiculous. If Christ stood before me I don't think I could bow low enough. He is man and God, not the queen of England. Give it up with the straw man arguments and stop putting words in my mouth.

I didn't put the words in your mouth as you say, you are the one who typed them not I. Perhaps you should be more careful on what you write.

Also it would be nice you actually supported what you wrote or posted, which I still haven't seen from my posts 80-81.

I am sure she is alive. But she is not omnipresent, that is reserved for only God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Now who is putting words in others mouths? Hum? Never claimed that Mary is God or a goddess, only you have attempted to do so. No Catholic believes that Mary is a goddess. I repeat no Catholic. Perhaps it would be wise for you to actually get knowledge about my Church from well my Church instead of those you have an angst against my Church and are very willing to lie and deceive to make my Church look like what it isn't.

LOL! This coming from a Catholic! Icons = Idols. Play word games all you want, you can't change the TRUTH. Thou shalt not make an image of anything that is in heaven or earth, and thou shalt now bow to them!

Yes this is coming from a Catholic. I repeat from a Catholic, who understands what his Church teaches. Icons and images are not equal it idols. Like I said you really don't have a true understanding of what an idol is.

One question for you have you ever read the rest of Exodus? Have you ever read the descriptions of the Tent of Meeting and the Temple? Have you ever read the story of the golden snake in Exodus? Perhaps you should.