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What errors and inventions arose in Roman Catholicism?

Erose

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The list is too long, I think this is the most important one:

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to
change ltimes; Yahweh's Feast Days, and Laws."

Amazing video explaing the CatholicChurch

And upon her head a name was written - YouTube
Why do folks feel the necessity to post videos that no one is going to watch. Pronounce what you believe and defend it if necessary. Don't let others do it for you.

You have no problem with someone who has no clue what the Catholic Church teaches to tell you what she teaches. That is like having someone who has never even seen an iphone, explain to you have that iphone works and operates.
 
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Tzaousios

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Why do folks feel the necessity to post videos that no one is going to watch. Pronounce what you believe and defend it if necessary. Don't let others do it for you.

Quoted for truth! :thumbsup:
 
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Pteriax

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Yes, and they're only an idol if we worship them. :)

But icons are not idols unless they are worshiped. If you had looked into the history of it like you claim to do you would no this. The cop-out of the "thebiblesaysitIbelieveitthatsettlesit" will not work here to cover up the fact that you are self-validating your presuppositions concerning Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Bowing is a form of worship. Praying is a form of worship. God said not to make the images AND not to worship them. Separately.
 
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Erose

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I think it can be true for every church (people) that we need to lead by example too and not just by what we say. Many churches can have a certain formal view but it may not always be followed by congregants.
Well I have been a Catholic for over 20 years now and have never met a fellow Catholic who worships Mary as a goddess. Sorry it doesn't happen. Perhaps in some countries where certain cults have taken religious items and saints, and molded them to their traditional gods and goddess and they rituals, such as Voodoo.

The Church is very explicit about who deserves Adoration (God only) and who can be venerated (Mary, saints, parents, etc.)
 
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Hizikyah

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Why do folks feel the necessity to post videos that no one is going to watch. Pronounce what you believe and defend it if necessary. Don't let others do it for you.

You have no problem with someone who has no clue what the Catholic Church teaches to tell you what she teaches. That is like having someone who has never even seen an iphone, explain to you have that iphone works and operates.

I made that video and you can get many of hour of work that can't be replicated in a few posts, it includes dictionary info, concordance, lexicon, quotes from books, video clips, and more. A trread can't capture it. If you did actually watch it you might be glad you did?

PS i also used quotes from catholic cardinals, and popes
 
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Tzaousios

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Bowing is a form of worship. Praying is a form of worship. God said not to make the images AND not to worship them. Separately.

Right, he told that to the Israelites in the context of the conquest of Canaan because of what the Canaanite practice of worshiping idols represented. Different contexts, different practices. I know you will just retort with "NUH UH" because you have already equivocated Catholics with Pagans.
 
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Pteriax

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Now who is putting words in others mouths? Hum? Never claimed that Mary is God or a goddess, only you have attempted to do so. No Catholic believes that Mary is a goddess. I repeat no Catholic. Perhaps it would be wise for you to actually get knowledge about my Church from well my Church instead of those you have an angst against my Church and are very willing to lie and deceive to make my Church look like what it isn't.

I didn't say you did. I said only God is omnipresent. In order to answer or even hear the thousands of prayers to her in any given moment Mary would have to be omnipresent.

Yes this is coming from a Catholic. I repeat from a Catholic, who understands what his Church teaches. Icons and images are not equal it idols. Like I said you really don't have a true understanding of what an idol is.

Ha. What a joke.

One question for you have you ever read the rest of Exodus? Have you ever read the descriptions of the Tent of Meeting and the Temple? Have you ever read the story of the golden snake in Exodus? Perhaps you should.

Of course I have. What prophet of God said that God told him you were to make these images? Because that's how it happened in Exodus.
 
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Pteriax

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Well I have been a Catholic for over 20 years now and have never met a fellow Catholic who worships Mary as a goddess. Sorry it doesn't happen. Perhaps in some countries where certain cults have taken religious items and saints, and molded them to their traditional gods and goddess and they rituals, such as Voodoo.

The Church is very explicit about who deserves Adoration (God only) and who can be venerated (Mary, saints, parents, etc.)

Care to share with the rest of the class what the difference is between adoration and veneration? If there is one?
 
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Tzaousios

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Care to share with the rest of the class what the difference is between adoration and veneration? If there is one?

No, the better question is would you accept the distinction and refine your presuppositions if he was to do that work for you. However, it is quite clear at this point that most questions you are asking are rhetorical in nature.
 
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Pteriax

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No, the better question is would you accept the distinction and refine your presuppositions if he was to do that work for you. However, it is quite clear at this point that most questions you are asking are rhetorical in nature.

Of course it's rhetorical. I am quite capable of learning word meanings on my own. I want to know what his justification for the imaginary distinction is. Or do you prefer that you be the only one who goes around and nitpicks people's posts?
 
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Erose

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Bowing is a form of worship. Praying is a form of worship.
No bowing and praying can be used in worship, but by themselves they are not worship. I have already shown to you Abraham and Jacob bowing to other people as a sign of respect and honor.

God said not to make the images AND not to worship them. Separately.
Still trying to get through Exodus I see. Here I will help you just a tiny bit, since you have got to that part yet:

Ex 25: [16] And thou shalt put in the ark the testimony which I will give thee. [17] Thou shalt make also a propitiatory (ark-cover) of the purest gold: the length thereof shall be two cubits and a half, and the breadth a cubit and a half. [18] Thou shalt make also two cherubim of beaten gold, on the two sides of the oracle. [19] Let one cherub be on the one side, and the other on the other. [20] Let them cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look one towards the other, their faces being turned towards the propitiatory wherewith the ark is to be covered.

What is God doing telling Moses to make images of cherubim to put upon the lid of the Ark of the Covenant? Hum

How about in the Temple?

1Kings 6: [21] And the house before the oracle he overlaid with most pure gold, and fastened on the plates with nails of gold. [22] And there was nothing in the temple that was not covered with gold: the whole altar of the oracle he covered also with gold. [23] And he made in the oracle two cherubims of olive tree, of ten cubits in height. [24] One wing of the cherub was five cubits, and the other wing of the cherub was five cubits: that is, in all ten cubits, from the extremity of one wing to the extremity of the other wing. [25] The second cherub also was ten cubits: and the measure, and the work was the same in both the cherubims:

[26] That is to say, one cherub was ten cubits high, and in like manner the other cherub. [27] And he set the cherubims in the midst of the inner temple: and the cherubims stretched forth their wings, and the wing of the one touched one wall, and the wing of the other cherub touched the other wall: and the other wings in the midst of the temple touched one another. [28] And he overlaid the cherubims with gold. [29] And all the walls of the temple round about he carved with divers figures and carvings: and he made in them cherubims and palm trees, and divers representations, as it were standing out, and coming forth from the wall. [30] And the floor of the house he also overlaid with gold within and without. [31] And in the entrance of the oracle he made little doors of olive tree, and posts of five corners, [32] And two doors of olive tree: and he carved upon them figures of cherubims, and figures of palm trees, and carvings very much projecting: and he overlaid them with gold: and he covered both the cherubims and the palm trees, and the other things with gold. [33] And he made in the entrance of the temple posts of olive tree foursquare: [34] And two doors of fir tree, one of each side: and each door was double, and so opened with folding leaves. [35] And he carved cherubims, and palm trees, and carved work standing very much out: and he overlaid all with golden plates in square work by rule.

Like I said, maybe you should do just a little bit more research on this subject, as you don't seem to grasp, what God was really commanding.

I'll help you get started. Idols are those things that one adores equal to or more than God. Idols can be statues and pictures no doubt, but idols also come in the form of ideals, governments, celebrities, etc.

Images and icons in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, display either a heavenly or biblical scene and are meant to help the person meditating (not eastern meditation) upon that event or the virtues of that person, or whatever may be good and right to do. Like I offered as an example before, it is like someone using a picture(s) to help them remember good times in the past or a person that they either have buried or haven't seen in a while. Icons and images are just like that. To help focus the attention on what those icons and images represent, not on the images themselves.

When I meditate on an image of the Crucifix, I am not worshipping the crucifix, but rather using it as a means to help me imagine the events around the crucifix, and the death of our Lord. The incredible suffering my Lord went through for me. To save me. To redeem me. Everytime I see a crucifix, it forces me to recall these truths, and never forget them.

In Catholic and Orthodox churches, we use things to excite the senses, sights, sounds, smells, things to touch. Why because these things help us call to mind where we are truly at when we are in Church celebrating the Divine Liturgy or Mass. For we believe that when we are celebrating the sacred rituals, we are no longer just on earth in a building; but rather we are in the presence of God at his throne. We are in heaven at Mass and the Divine Liturgy, and these things we use to excite the senses, helps us call to mind that this is were we are at.
 
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Metal Minister

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And yet he did as she asked. She interceded. He called her woman to connect her to Eve.

No. Jesus was being quite clear in His distancing of Himself from her. As I explained to you. Calling her "woman" doesn't connect her to Eve. That's a serious stretch, especially considering I've already told you the implication of that statement was/is in the Jewish culture.

She was there. Sometimes, being there is all we can do. It speaks volumes that she could be there seeing her son, having been mutilated, hanging there like a criminal. It also speaks volumes that you see nothing in this act.

In the act of what? Being present for her Son's execution? It speaks more volumes that the RCC teaches that simply by her being their, she participated in Christ's redemptive work. What does her presence prove? That she lover her Son? Ok, and? (I fully agree, that sometimes all we can do is be there.)

The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars. The child she gives birth to is Jesus. Then the woman is Mary.

No, that's symbolism for Israel. Period. Otherwise, what is the significance of the "fled into the wilderness for 1260 days"?
 
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Root of Jesse

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False. Thomas, James, Judas (not Iscariot), and I think one other are mentioned as names of Jesus' brothers. Mat 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31.

She is / was also not sinless. Luke 2:23-25.

Revelation has no mention of Mary at all. The woman in Revelation 12:1-6 is either Israel or the Church.
Mary is the type of the Church, so we agree.

There's a difference between saying Jesus had brothers, and saying Mary had other children.

She wouldn't be in heaven if she wasn't/isn't sinless. And there is no doubt that she's in heaven. Jesus followed the commandment to honor His mother...
 
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ImaginaryDay

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Care to share with the rest of the class what the difference is between adoration and veneration? If there is one?

No, the better question is would you accept the distinction and refine your presuppositions if he was to do that work for you.

Suspected as much.
 
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Root of Jesse

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No. Jesus was being quite clear in His distancing of Himself from her. As I explained to you. Calling her "woman" doesn't connect her to Eve. That's a serious stretch, especially considering I've already told you the implication of that statement was/is in the Jewish culture.



In the act of what? Being present for her Son's execution? It speaks more volumes that the RCC teaches that simply by her being their, she participated in Christ's redemptive work. What does her presence prove? That she lover her Son? Ok, and? (I fully agree, that sometimes all we can do is be there.)



No, that's symbolism for Israel. Period. Otherwise, what is the significance of the "fled into the wilderness for 1260 days"?
The idea that Revelation, or any passage of Scripture, only has one meaning is false. Jesus calls his mother woman to honor her. It's also an indication that she is sinless. The mother of mankind had no name until she sinned. After she sinned, Adam named her Eve. Mary participated in Christ's redemptive work by saying "Yes" to God's request.
 
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ImaginaryDay

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Meaning? Also, it is a bit disingenuous to edit the rest of my post.

Fixed it, but I still think it's an honest question that deserves an answer. To me, the line is so slim between worship and venerate that I'm surprised at how many don't realize they've genuinely crossed over.
 
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Tzaousios

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Fixed it, but I still think it's an honest question that deserves an answer.

Thanks for fixing it. However, what do you think about the point I was making? It does not matter what the distinction is according to Pteriax's presuppositions.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I suppose I'm a pagan too then. After all I'm guilty of venerating God's written word, the Scriptures, as well as venerating my parents as per God's command to honor our mother and father.

Of course, I already know that I'm just a devil-worshiping heathen as far as some are concerned simply on the basis that I'm not the kind of Christian they think I should be. Which is why I made my own official Heathen License for the giggles.

eayg.png


-CryptoLutheran
 
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Albion

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I suppose I'm a pagan too then. After all I'm guilty of venerating God's written word, the Scriptures, as well as venerating my parents as per God's command to honor our mother and father.
Do you pray to them and say they can change the course of heavenly or Earthly events by their own authority?

We didn't think so.
 
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