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What does the word "perfect" or perfected, or perfection mean by original languages in...

yeshuaslavejeff

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but we all go against Gods Instructions.. No one is perfect..
If you take the time to search the Scriptures,
and Foxes Book of Martyrs,
you will find many who are/were perfect enough to be called blameless and holy and obedient
by God and by Jesus, in the BIBLE, and later by those who knew them.
Going against God's Instructions [in a continual] voluntary disobedience just
like a little child being rebellious against their dad or parents.

God shows us how to be obedient, not rebellious -
especially poignant because if someone continues willingly to be
disobedient/ lawless... they re-crucify Jesus again, and again, and again.... (see in Scripture).

i.e. voluntary willing disobedience is just like not ever repenting, just like never the first time turning to God to be becoming His child -
To be becoming His child is offered through Jesus, through Jesus alone (there's no other way to the Father ).....
Jesus knew He would be painfully tortured, whipped, stoned, mocked, beaten and crucified for the whole of mankinds sins,
and He bore as written in Scripture our sins and our sicknesses upon Himself (yes, for the whole world, once for all, on the cross).... unimaginable humility - the CREATOR became human, being born a man, and suffering so greatly though He Himself
Did No Wrong....

and through His suffering, and through His Resurrection, by God's Plan all along,
Jesus provides the Way to Life - free from all sin, free from the power of sin, free from greed and from idolatry and from all manner of sin that afflicts mankind,
and free from the power of the world,
and free from the power of satan....

Through Jesus' Faithfulness, we can be healed ! He cares for us, He sacrificed His Life for us, when we were all still His Enemy !
Such love as this,
such mercy and grace and hope !
 
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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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What does the word "perfect" or perfected, or perfection mean by original languages in scripture, and by God's definition of the word...?

How can we be perfect but different...?

Does God define perfect differently from any language we have and know of...?

What is perfect...?

Lastly, how do you define perfect...?

Comments...? Discussion...?

Peace,

God Bless!

Be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. In what way is the Father perfect? It is obviously speaking about behavior.

We are also told by God (in His Word) to be ye holy because I am holy. This again is talking about being holy in conduct. You do need to know Greek. Just look at the context I have given you.


...
 
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I hate to say this, but, none of them are actually sinless, they might be close, but all miss, have missed, and will miss, the mark...

People being very fickle and all, they were not sinless their entire life, or even from a certain point onward in their life either...

If they did manage to be, for a time, it would be on some days, or some periods of time, and some not, just the way it is... And that is the way they were, the way we all are...

God Bless!

When the Bible tells you to be "perfect" it is not talking about taking into account a believer's past life (as an unbeliever) and nor is it talking about the time it takes a believer to mature in the faith. Sinless Perfection is the goal for our life here and it is not usually an overnight process for most believers. But the 144,000 and Enoch both show it is possible to live a holy life for the majority of a believer's life.

Anyways, please do not take this the wrong way but it seems like you are fighting against what Scripture plainly says, my friend. The Bible says be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. If you really cannot explain the text plainly beyond the obvious meaning in what it says then it appears that you are not liking what the text simply says.


...
 
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jimmyjimmy

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What does the word "perfect" or perfected, or perfection mean by original languages in scripture, and by God's definition of the word...?

How can we be perfect but different...?

Does God define perfect differently from any language we have and know of...?

What is perfect...?

Lastly, how do you define perfect...?

Comments...? Discussion...?

Peace,

God Bless!


Perfect means just what you think it does. Which scripture text are you having issues with?
 
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Neogaia777

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Maybe our imperfections makes us perfects in a strange way, Maybe we are perfect because we are not perfect. We as humans are not perfect, we never will be, but what would it look like if we were, we would not learn anything, and the point is knowledge. We would not know good if we did not know bad, everything in this world is Yin and Yang, doublesided, except God. I i know i will never be perfect, maybe that knowledge is the biggest knowledge to becomming perfect:)
Your on to what I was thinking...

I was wondering if some are "perfectly imperfect"...

Like me...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Perfect means just what you think it does. Which scripture text are you having issues with?
Where it says you must be perfect or sinless...

Is sinless the same as perfect, or not...?

God Bless!
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Where it says you must be perfect or sinless...

Is sinless the same as perfect, or not...?

God Bless!

Yes. Look where it comes in the paragraph. It comes after a complete list of law. Look at the key word: "therefore". Read the context, slowly.

Matthew 5:10-48

“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

“It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

“Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (ESV)
 
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Neogaia777

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When the Bible tells you to be "perfect" it is not talking about taking into account a believer's past life (as an unbeliever) and nor is it talking about the time it takes a believer to mature in the faith. Sinless Perfection is the goal for our life here and it is not usually an overnight process for most believers. But the 144,000 and Enoch both show it is possible to live a holy life for the majority of a believer's life.

Anyways, please do not take this the wrong way but it seems like you are fighting against what Scripture plainly says, my friend. The Bible says be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. If you really cannot explain the text plainly beyond the obvious meaning in what it says then it appears that you are not liking what the text simply says.


...
True, I do not like the even the word "perfect", it rubs me the wrong way...

But, perfect according to God can mean many things, it can mean holy, holy can mean set apart from this world system and are a part of his, holy can mean many things, "sinless" though, obviously only has one meaning, and if perfect means sinless, then I think that it quite impossible for us, but maybe not God alone..

Well,

God Bless!
 
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jimmyjimmy

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True, I do not like the even the word "perfect", it rubs me the wrong way...

But, perfect according to God can mean many things, it can mean holy, holy can mean set apart from this world system and are a part of his, holy can mean many things, "sinless" though, obviously only has one meaning, and if perfect means sinless, then I think that it quite impossible for us, but maybe not God alone..

Well,

God Bless!

I can't mean many things. Look at the context.

Also, why does it bother you? I think I know.
 
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Neogaia777

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I can't mean many things. Look at the context.

Also, why does it bother you? I think I know.
You know I really don't know...? It just "does"...

Can you tell me what you were thinking, it could help me...

Thanks,

God Bless!
 
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jimmyjimmy

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You know I really don't know...? It just "does"...

Can you tell me what you were thinking, it could help me...

Thanks,

God Bless!

You feel the weight of His words, and that' good. That was His intent.
 
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Neogaia777

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You feel the weight of His words, and that' good. That was His intent.
He's the only who can do that though... But, by grace, we somehow get to have his place and he takes ours...

But that doesn't mean that in and of ourselves, that we are sinless or declared sinless... It is by Christ, and all Christ, and him alone...

It doesn't feel like weight, i more kinda get repulsed and disgusted by it, and a little angry, and sometimes either righteous, or self-righteous about it, I do not know which one...?

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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He's the only who can do that though... But, by grace, we somehow get to have his place and he takes ours...

But that doesn't mean that in and of ourselves, that we are sinless or declared sinless... It is by Christ, and all Christ, and him alone...

It doesn't feel like weight, i more kinda get repulsed and disgusted by it, and a little angry, and sometimes either righteous, or self-righteous about it, I do not know which one...?

God Bless!
I guess you could say it tends to provoke me...

God Bless!
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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You mean to be like him (God)...?

And us all...? Even if that were possible, we would all be the same, which is very unlikely...

God Bless!

With man it is impossible, but with God ALL things are possible. IF we truly have HIS spirit alive within, HE will cause us to be OVERCOMERS.

We'd all be the same? Really? Look at Jesus, Paul, John, Peter, James...they were all different persons, but what made them ONE? The Spirit of Christ...

The Rich Young Man
Matthew 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.


Perfect


τέλειος (teleios)

Strong: G5046

GK: G5455


Definition

brought to its end, finished

wanting nothing necessary to completeness

perfect

that which is perfect

consummate human integrity and virtue

of men

full grown, adult, of full age, mature



The same Greek word used in the following scriptures is in bold.

As perfect: Matthew 5:48 Romans 12:2 Hebrews 9:11 James 1:17 James 1:25 1 John 4:18

_____
1 Corinthians 2:6 However, we do speak wisdom among those who are mature (teleiois | τελείοις | dat pl masc), although it is not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to perish.

Ephesians 4:13 Colossians 1:28 Colossians 4:12 Hebrews 5:14 Philippians 3:15 James 3:2 James 1:4


In James 1:4, the word has been translated two different ways. Purpose and mature - And let endurance carry out its intended purpose (teleion | τέλειον | acc sg neut), so that you may be mature (teleioi | τέλειοι | nom pl masc) and complete, lacking in nothing.
____

1 Corinthians 13:10 but when what is complete (teleion | τέλειον | nom sg neut) comes, the partial will be set aside.

James 1:4

_____


1 Corinthians 14:20 Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Rather, in evil be infants but in your thinking be adults (teleioi | τέλειοι | nom pl masc).






Read more: Word Study | Faith Speak FOR THE GLORY OF GOD
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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True, I do not like the even the word "perfect", it rubs me the wrong way...

But, perfect according to God can mean many things, it can mean holy, holy can mean set apart from this world system and are a part of his, holy can mean many things, "sinless" though, obviously only has one meaning, and if perfect means sinless, then I think that it quite impossible for us, but maybe not God alone..

Well,

God Bless!

God the Father sent HIS son for this very reason...because for man it is impossible. We are powerless and hopeless...BUT when HE sends HIS Spirit to empower us, we become OVERCOMERS. That is promised in scripture. For it to truly be experiential in one's life, it must be BELIEVED...that HIS promises are true for those who trust in HIM. Anything else is UNBELIEF.

His spirit causes us to hunger and thirst after that...HIS righteousness. There is nothing good in us...except what righteousness HE gives or causes us to have. When we find we are not lining up to scripture, we must never twist scripture to fit our reality, but SEEK HIM and dig into scripture, ask HIM to reveal HIS TRUTH, not what our human minds have determined. There is the difference...we obey self/flesh or we obey spirit...can never be both.

Your observation is correct regarding the impossibility of a man...and that is key...Jesus came to give us that power ...by the same spirit that rose Christ from the grave to come live inside us. Do you believe what HE promises?

Dust off that Bible and study...
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Dust off that Bible and study...
"like a 3 year old" reading ! :) .... read and read and read and enjoy what
the Creator Breathed in His Word --- for us (mere humans !) --- what is man that thou (oh Creator) are mindful of us, what is son of man that YOU (God) care about us ?
PRAISE GOD HALLELUYAH ! HE CARES ! HE CARES !

(just a note to little children to "ENJOY THE BIBLE" ! )
little children 3 years old (even younger), up to 120 years old !
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE=]Fine, i will .... No one is perfect..[/QUOTE

Choose to be. Choose to follow Jesus. He died for us, and shows us how.

OH, do not worry about "perfect" - it is grossly misunderstood here.

But do, read the Bible for God's Love to men - God's Way for us to be reconciled to Him. ---- not being only a hearer of His Word, but a DOER of His Word every day.

Start small (Jesus says). Even just give a glass of water (yep! one glass of water) to someone thirsty, for HIS SAKE. You will not then lose the reward (God's Promise).

It is shocking and so revealing of mankind,
how few people will give a glass of water to a thirsty man, woman or child.

Yes, it is a good way to start. As Jesus says.....
 
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Neogaia777

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With man it is impossible, but with God ALL things are possible. IF we truly have HIS spirit alive within, HE will cause us to be OVERCOMERS.

We'd all be the same? Really? Look at Jesus, Paul, John, Peter, James...they were all different persons, but what made them ONE? The Spirit of Christ...

The Rich Young Man
Matthew 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.


Perfect


τέλειος (teleios)

Strong: G5046

GK: G5455


Definition

brought to its end, finished

wanting nothing necessary to completeness

perfect

that which is perfect

consummate human integrity and virtue

of men

full grown, adult, of full age, mature



The same Greek word used in the following scriptures is in bold.

As perfect: Matthew 5:48 Romans 12:2 Hebrews 9:11 James 1:17 James 1:25 1 John 4:18

_____
1 Corinthians 2:6 However, we do speak wisdom among those who are mature (teleiois | τελείοις | dat pl masc), although it is not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to perish.

Ephesians 4:13 Colossians 1:28 Colossians 4:12 Hebrews 5:14 Philippians 3:15 James 3:2 James 1:4


In James 1:4, the word has been translated two different ways. Purpose and mature - And let endurance carry out its intended purpose (teleion | τέλειον | acc sg neut), so that you may be mature (teleioi | τέλειοι | nom pl masc) and complete, lacking in nothing.
____

1 Corinthians 13:10 but when what is complete (teleion | τέλειον | nom sg neut) comes, the partial will be set aside.

James 1:4

_____


1 Corinthians 14:20 Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Rather, in evil be infants but in your thinking be adults (teleioi | τέλειοι | nom pl masc).






Read more: Word Study | Faith Speak FOR THE GLORY OF GOD
Thanks for that, that was what I was trying to get at,

Thanks,

God Bless!
 
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Josephus

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The Hebrew word is tamim

Strong's Hebrew: 8549. תָּמִים (tamim) -- complete, sound

It means "complete" and is a reference to a sacrifice that is considered tamim - complete, in that it meets all the requirements of a sacrifice.

It does not mean perfect in terms of man's idea of perfect, but rather "complete" in terms of what G-d is looking for.

What is G-d looking for in you? Does He, in his infinite wisdom and utter knowledge of you expect you, a human with inborn weakness to sin, to be sinless? Of course not. But he does expect you to be repentant, like any good Father when they are trying to raise a son or daughter to do what is right, and mistakes are made. That is how people, such as Mary and Joseph, could be considered as such. They were tamim. Perfect, blameless... because they were walking on the path of righteousness as later exampled by Jesus, and when they made mistakes, repented... which too is a command of G-d. It is when one makes teshuvah - the Hebrew word for repentence which means to "turn around," that one accomplishes the purpose for sin in this world - to bring people to the point of decision to be G-d's child, or to continue to follow the wiles of the evil inclination.

It is interesting to note, that the Torah was written with both commands to not break, and commands to follow when others were broken. One such command is repentance. So to be "perfect" ie "complete" to the Torah of G-d, is to keep G-d's commandments, and when (not if) one breaks any of them, to be repentant after the fact. This is what it means to be complete, perfect, tamim, as our Heavenly Father is perfect. He can't sin, and when we repent of ours, which works because of the work Jesus did on our behalf, we take on the same status as our Father in Heaven - perfect, tamim, complete - because we have followed G-d's word... we have repented. Hence the gospel in Jesus' own words:

Mark 1:15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”
 
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Neogaia777

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The Hebrew word is tamim

Strong's Hebrew: 8549. תָּמִים (tamim) -- complete, sound

It means "complete" and is a reference to a sacrifice that is considered tamim - complete, in that it meets all the requirements of a sacrifice.

It does not mean perfect in terms of man's idea of perfect, but rather "complete" in terms of what G-d is looking for.

What is G-d looking for in you? Does He, in his infinite wisdom and utter knowledge of you expect you, a human with inborn weakness to sin, to be sinless? Of course not. But he does expect you to be repentant, like any good Father when they are trying to raise a son or daughter to do what is right, and mistakes are made. That is how people, such as Mary and Joseph, could be considered as such. They were tamim. Perfect, blameless... because they were walking on the path of righteousness as later exampled by Jesus, and when they made mistakes, repented... which too is a command of G-d. It is when one makes teshuvah - the Hebrew word for repentence which means to "turn around," that one accomplishes the purpose for sin in this world - to bring people to the point of decision to be G-d's child, or to continue to follow the wiles of the evil inclination.

It is interesting to note, that the Torah was written with both commands to not break, and commands to follow when others were broken. One such command is repentance. So to be "perfect" ie "complete" to the Torah of G-d, is to keep G-d's commandments, and when (not if) one breaks any of them, to be repentant after the fact. This is what it means to be complete, perfect, tamim, as our Heavenly Father is perfect. He can't sin, and when we repent of ours, which works because of the work Jesus did on our behalf, we take on the same status as our Father in Heaven - perfect, tamim, complete - because we have followed G-d's word... we have repented. Hence the gospel in Jesus' own words:

Mark 1:15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”
Awesome post!

Great job...

Thanks,

God Bless!
 
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