What does the US "Pledge of Allegiance" mean to you?

[Mechanical Bliss]

...even if it means disregarding the constitution. That doesn't sound like you love your country all that much. You only love it when you get special rights to ignore the constitutional rights of others.

Chalk up another person who misses the point and likely didn't read the thread.

 

[crazyfingers]

Yes and it's you that misses the point. We love God and country and are willing to stand proclaim it.

I do not believe in a god and it's not up to the government to tell me that one exists.

 

[pmarquette]

No greater thing can a man do ...
than lay down his life for a friend ....

sounds like the words of a soldier of christ ,
I will do what the commander in chief asks
even if my life will be required of me to
defend the faith or save a soul ...

 

[onionring]

I feel that the Pledge of Allegiance is an individual oath that Americans (specifically) partake in in order to outwardly show their inner commitment to their nation.

I do not believe in a god and it's not up to the government to tell me that one exists.

What are you complaining about?

You don't believe in God. So what's the big deal?!

Just today I was singing, "Rudolph the Red-nose Reindeer" along with a band on NPR. Now if I was "really" uptight, I might whine and say, "it's not up to the government to tell me that 'Rudolph' exists." And yet somehow my intelligence overcomes me and I withstood the song.



A Side Note:
If having the word "God" in/on a governmental medium means the government says "There is a God", then removing means that the government says "There is no God".

So the "government and God" issue really isn't about me pushing my beliefs on others. It's about others trying to pushing their beliefs on me!!

See the stupidity of that whole "Government is sponsoring God" argument? To make that argument, is to make issue and declare right or wrong on some belief. Who's the judgmental belief-pusher? The person saying the Pledge, or the one trying to change it?

 

[crazyfingers]

A Side Note:
If having the word "God" in/on a governmental medium means the government says "There is a God", then removing means that the government says "There is no God".

Umm.. No. Removing it would be the government having nothing to say about it. If it said "One nation under no God", that would be the government saying there is not god.

Come on now. This is pretty simple stuff.

So the "government and God" issue really isn't about me pushing my beliefs on others. It's about others trying to pushing their beliefs on me!!

Given that your statement above is totally wrong, so is this statement.

See the stupidity of that whole "Government is sponsoring God" argument? To make that argument, is to make issue and declare right or wrong on some belief. Who's the judgmental belief-pusher? The person saying the Pledge, or the one trying to change it?

Do you have any idea about the history here? The pledge was changed in 1954 when "Under God" was added. It wasn't in there prior to 1954. When Eisenhower signed the law he said "From this day forward, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty."

Who's the belief pusher?

 

[Mr.Pious]

Personally I don't think I nor my brothers and sisters should even have to say a pledge. Why do I need to pledge allegiance to a country running under a fictious president I do not believe in?

And please don't tell me that you do not have to say the pledege in school, because you do. I was told by my chemistry teacher numerous times (whom was my 2nd period teacher which is when we said the pledge) That I must stand for the pledge. When I refused she told me I should be kicked out of the country. And then sent me to the vice princples office (This could have been because I told her to **** herself though) where I was given a detention, and nothing was said to her.

 

[Polycarp1]

I would not pledge allegiance to the symbol of a (hypothetical) dictatorship which told me what I could not do, no matter how pious the dictator might be. I will say the Pledge, and be proud of doing so, because I do believe in God, and because the flag is the symbol of a free country, in which citizens are guaranteed the freedom to believe as they choose. My great-great-great-great-grandfather fought to free this country from the rule of an English king with an established religion (ironically, the ancestor of the church in which I hold membership!).



Part of that freedom is enshrined in the First Amendment to the Constitution. This addresses religion in two ways (as I have detailed over in the Liberal Christianity forum on this board): the right to freely exercise one’s religion, without government interference, and the right to be free from government compelling or coercing you to profess allegiance to a system of beliefs (i.e., a religion) that it establishes. It also protects one’s freedom of speech, to be able to say or not say what is on your mind, with government interference limited to very explicit abuses (e.g., advocacy of armed rebellion against the U.S., child pornography, the provision of a government-sponsored public forum for “hate speech”).



The original statute adopted by Congress which adopted the Pledge of Allegiance, and the 1954 amendment, simply set forth the text as the proper way in which an American may pledge allegiance to the country, by addressing his/her pledge to the flag as its symbol. It is not and cannot be unconstitutional, because it is not a requirement on anybody as a citizen.



According to a Supreme Court case that has been good law for 62 years, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, it is unconstitutional to compel anyone to recite the Pledge. Later cases have extended that prohibition to coercion by the example of a government authority or by peer pressure. You cannot say, for example, “All patriotic Americans will now stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. But you can remain seated, or stand silently, if you so choose.” That’s coercion at its worst.



In the Newdow case now up for Supreme Court consideration, the Ninth Circuit Court held two very interesting positions: (1) That the requirement in a school board’s regulation that the Pledge be recited every morning in every class in its school district constituted an establishment of religion, because the God whom the Pledge asserts that we’re one nation under is the Judaeo-Christian God (and does anybody in this debate question that? Does anybody think that it’s really Brahma, or Zeus, or Odin being referred to?). As such, it’s a violation of the First and Fourteenth Amendments. [The First Amendment only restricts Congress and the Federal government; the Fourteenth says that the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution cannot be abridged by the States (or the local governments, including school boards, which they create) either.] And (2) the Ninth Circuit was explicit that what it was ruling unconstitutional was the school board regulation, not the Pledge itself, and that it explicitly refused to rule on Newdow’s contention that the Pledge was unconstitutional.



I’m proud to say the Pledge, because I love the free country in which I was blessed to be born and live. I have never been prouder of my grandkids than the day I took them to the State Museum, and as we walked past the flag flying in front of the State Legislature Building a block away, they turned and spontaneously recited the Pledge together.



But for anyone to require by law that people must recite it, is a violation of the very principles on which it was founded, the free constitutional republic for which the Flag stands. And that deserves combating.



Recite the Pledge; teach your children the Pledge. Teach them to be proud of this country, and of the freedom that we have – and that it’s worth guarding, with your life if necessary. But don’t try to take away any piece of that freedom in an effort to force others to think as you do. That’s what happened to the Russian Republic before it even got off the ground, back in 1917; that’s what happened to the German Republic in 1933.



The old line from Vietnam, “We had to destroy the village in order to save it,” comes to mind. Don’t destroy freedom in the name of honoring it.

 

[onionring]

Personally I don't think I nor my brothers and sisters should even have to say a pledge. Why do I need to pledge allegiance to a country running under a fictious president I do not believe in?

And please don't tell me that you do not have to say the pledege in school, because you do. I was told by my chemistry teacher numerous times (whom was my 2nd period teacher which is when we said the pledge) That I must stand for the pledge. When I refused she told me I should be kicked out of the country. And then sent me to the vice princples office (This could have been because I told her to **** herself though) where I was given a detention, and nothing was said to her.

Not to say I still wished I was in school so I could kick your ***, but that's not very nice.

 

[Durelen]

What does the US "Pledge of Allegiance" mean to you?

When I pledge allegiance to something, I am doing just that. I will do what ever is necessary to protect it that which I pay my pledge to. It has nothing to do with any one else or their sacrifices to the cause. It is a pledge I vow and is my job to uphold at all costs.


They remove the pledge to our great country because they want to replace it with globalism. Soon the children will pledge allegiance to the king of the one world government as they attend their schools. America will either fall in line or be militarily conquered. Removing the pledge is just another step to falling in line.

 

[LiberalChristian]

When I pledge allegiance to something, I am doing just that. I will do what ever is necessary to protect it that which I pay my pledge to. It has nothing to do with any one else or their sacrifices to the cause. It is a pledge I vow and is my job to uphold at all costs.

That is the exact reason why Christians should NOT say the pledge. Our first allegiance is to the Kingdom of God. If you vow allegiance to the United States and the government does something that is contrary to God's will what will you do? Sin by sticking to your oath or sin by breaking it? It is a foolish thing for a Christian to do.

 

[Durelen]

That is the exact reason why Christians should NOT say the pledge. Our first allegiance is to the Kingdom of God. If you vow allegiance to the United States and the government does something that is contrary to God's will what will you do? Sin by sticking to your oath or sin by breaking it? It is a foolish thing for a Christian to do.

Ahhh a what if argument, what if… what if… what iff…
What if they changed the constitution? Change the name to Ametika then. What if America and Ametika fell into civil war? What if, what if? I pledged my allegiance to America for which it stands, not your what ifs. Shall we cower into a corner and let the enemy destroy us? I choose to stand as well.

 

[Mr.Pious]

Not to say I still wished I was in school so I could kick your ***, but that's not very nice.

why would you want to kick my ***? That is not a very nice thing for a so called Christian to say.

 

[LiberalChristian]

Ahhh a what if argument, what if… what if… what iff…
What if they changed the constitution? Change the name to Ametika then. What if America and Ametika fell into civil war? What if, what if? I pledged my allegiance to America for which it stands, not your what ifs. Shall we cower into a corner and let the enemy destroy us? I choose to stand as well.

You miss the point, our allegiance is to the Kingdom of God. If you take an oath you are obliged to follow it. The scripture says you cannot serve two master. Who is yours? God or the United States? They are not the same.

 

[Durelen]

You miss the point, our allegiance is to the Kingdom of God. If you take an oath you are obliged to follow it. The scripture says you cannot serve two master. Who is yours? God or the United States? They are not the same.

I didn’t miss the point; you just don’t comprehend the answer. Your posturing shows that there is no understanding of this issue. Such are those whom slumber as in a very light sleep.

You’re argument is based on scenarios in attempts to manipulate a point but my allegiance is based on the fact at hand, and on history as well. I happen to believe in what this country is based on and I have no doubt that we are, and have been blessed by all mighty God.

Because of a few brave in the world, a nation was formed that has been greatly used by God for many generations. Why? Because we have the freedoms to follow our callings to do the things which God has for us to do. Religious regulation or bobbed wired boarders do not hold us down as some would have. It has been said of us that we are the new breed, indeed.

As the world slips further into bondage and darkness, people from around the world nearly beat our door down to join us for the chance to be truly free. Meanwhile the nations writhe against us in hatred of our international policies for it conflicts with their one world globalist vision. But we shall push on to defend ourselves as we are doing. Yes, America is awake once again and we are are war.

Yet I fear the meaning of this is easily forgotten by some and that they are swiftly being swept up in the delusion which is setting upon this earth. Though truly we built a great nation based on the precepts of our God, soon this will be swept away for something new which will consume the hearts of most in this world. And as we ride upon mounted steed into battle from our feast in heaven, these will turn their weapons upon us as if they could actually destroy our Lord(Rev 19:11).

Maranatha!

 

[Ikaria]

I didn’t miss the point; you just don’t comprehend the answer. Your posturing shows that there is no understanding of this issue. Such are those whom slumber as in a very light sleep.

You’re argument is based on scenarios in attempts to manipulate a point but my allegiance is based on the fact at hand, and on history as well. I happen to believe in what this country is based on and I have no doubt that we are, and have been blessed by all mighty God.

Because of a few brave in the world, a nation was formed that has been greatly used by God for many generations. Why? Because we have the freedoms to follow our callings to do the things which God has for us to do. Religious regulation or bobbed wired boarders do not hold us down as some would have. It has been said of us that we are the new breed, indeed.

As the world slips further into bondage and darkness, people from around the world nearly beat our door down to join us for the chance to be truly free. Meanwhile the nations writhe against us in hatred of our international policies for it conflicts with their one world globalist vision. But we shall push on to defend ourselves as we are doing. Yes, America is awake once again and we are are war.

Yet I fear the meaning of this is easily forgotten by some and that they are swiftly being swept up in the delusion which is setting upon this earth. Though truly we built a great nation based on the precepts of our God, soon this will be swept away for something new which will consume the hearts of most in this world. And as we ride upon mounted steed into battle from our feast in heaven, these will turn their weapons upon us as if they could actually destroy our Lord(Rev 19:11).

Maranatha!

And yet, try as you might, you never quite managed to address his argument.

All you did was insult him again and again.

 

[Ikaria]

You’re argument is based on scenarios in attempts to manipulate a point but my allegiance is based on the fact at hand, and on history as well. I happen to believe in what this country is based on and I have no doubt that we are, and have been blessed by all mighty God.

So your argument is "It's right because I believe it is right."

Wow.

 

[LiberalChristian]

I didn’t miss the point; you just don’t comprehend the answer. Your posturing shows that there is no understanding of this issue. Such are those whom slumber as in a very light sleep.

You’re argument is based on scenarios in attempts to manipulate a point but my allegiance is based on the fact at hand, and on history as well. I happen to believe in what this country is based on and I have no doubt that we are, and have been blessed by all mighty God.

Because of a few brave in the world, a nation was formed that has been greatly used by God for many generations. Why? Because we have the freedoms to follow our callings to do the things which God has for us to do. Religious regulation or bobbed wired boarders do not hold us down as some would have. It has been said of us that we are the new breed, indeed.

As the world slips further into bondage and darkness, people from around the world nearly beat our door down to join us for the chance to be truly free. Meanwhile the nations writhe against us in hatred of our international policies for it conflicts with their one world globalist vision. But we shall push on to defend ourselves as we are doing. Yes, America is awake once again and we are are war.

Yet I fear the meaning of this is easily forgotten by some and that they are swiftly being swept up in the delusion which is setting upon this earth. Though truly we built a great nation based on the precepts of our God, soon this will be swept away for something new which will consume the hearts of most in this world. And as we ride upon mounted steed into battle from our feast in heaven, these will turn their weapons upon us as if they could actually destroy our Lord(Rev 19:11).

Maranatha!

I have to confess, I get rather frustrated with this forum at times. Can we discuss this subject without insulting one another. I don't believe I said anything to attack or insult you personally. If I did say something that is insulting to you as a person please point it out. In the event that I did say something that is an insult to you let me apologize in advance. From what you write I assume you are a Christian, let's have a dialog as two Christians should, with love and respect for one another. Okay?

Concerning the topic at hand, you say that this nation has been used by God. I AGREE. It has many times been used by God. There have been times, however, that is has also been used by Satan. Look, our nation is a human institution. As such it is subject to the same short comings of human beings. When I read the Bible it tells me that all people sin. It is logical that our government at times will do things that are a sin. As a Christian I reserve the right to not support the government when it does these things.

There is another lengthly post in this forum titled "Old but Tru" under Politics that lists some of the things the United States Government has done. I do NOT NECESSARILY agree that ALL these things are evil, but the point is that there are many instances where our government has done evil things. One example not on this list is "The Trail of Tears." At the time a Bible believing president sent many people to thier deaths. These people were the ancestors of my children and were not a threat. What is interesting is that there were Christians on these reservations that were put into prison because they opposed the removal of these people. If you had taken the oath (the Pledge)you would have had to stand by this and the actions listed on the other thread.

Let's remember above all things. We are Christians and the testimony of the church is that we demonstrate a love for one another. I love you personally. My Lord shed his blood for you. I am sincerely interested in your views and appreciate that my Christian Brothers and Sisters have opposing views.

 

[Durelen]

...Sin by sticking to your oath or sin by breaking it? It is a foolish thing for a Christian to do.

Sure did, your comment leads to the conclusion that I an in danger of sin (or have done)for foolishly supporting my country and I said you slumber because you lack understanding of the issue.

No one is nailing their ear to the door frame here and that is not even legal here in the US last I checked. I suppose if you never run for an office, never join or get drafted in the military, never stand in a court of law or never need to go through the process of becoming a citizen of the United States then you are in a sweet spot by your interpretations.


You guys should just pack up and go heh. Plenty have, so you are not alone.

 

[Ikaria]

You can't serve God and mammon.

 

[Durelen]

You can't serve God and mammon.

What is this? Bunch of sound bites?? You even know what that means?

Hey look, I answered the original posts question. If you cant except that then toooo bad! You want to attack my answer to that and twist things into it than have LOADS of fun! Twist away!