What does the New Testament Prophet look like?

hislegacy

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But "plainly" is YOUR word, and YOUR standard. You are dismissing out of hand scripture that actually nicely illustrates exactly how the prophetic should and often does work, no matter how many people tell you otherwise. We are all checking scripture here. You are the only one rejecting it based on a personal standard.

I agree completely on your other points, but perhaps for slightly different reasons.

On this we completely disagree - reminder

This approach throws out absolutely no scripture whatsoever, in fact, it put the final authority with the Scripture.

I am more than willing, and have looked at the one scripture you have posted so far that you feel illustrates your position. I refuted your assertion and you have provided no other to support.

Instead of making judgements on my posting, why not just give examples in scripture? It's ok to have an opinion on the matter, but don't be so married to an opinion that you take offense over someone with a differing opinion.

So far I have been called unteachable, not reading slow enough or with the proper methodology, and now I am disregarding scripture.

What I have not seen is scripture to support a supposition. There is no emotion behind this, just coming from a point of view that requires proof other than thoughts of what something means.

This might very well be one of the reasons the Office of the Prophet is not as active nor effective as it is designed to be.

It is also an interesting side note that no one has asked me what I think might be the difference, or what I am talking about.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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This is true and correct. It's the beauty and strength of Brothers and Sisters sharpening one another.

Again, - point me to a scripture (the basis for faith), where it supports the doubting of Paul and you have won me. I am open to learning. I am not looking for opinions, I can get opinions anywhere.

I'm not saying that Paul definetely was in doubt, but the fact that God sent a Prophet to confirm, means something. God does not send Prophets just because He can. I'm not trying to win you, I'm trying to help you see that there is more beyond your own understanding. I'm not talking extra-Biblical either. God tells us to "search" so logically, in my thinking anyway, I ask, "Why did God send a Prophet to tell Paul something? Was is something that Paul did not know? Obviously not, so why? It's logical to question "why?" when God does anything. Questioning not as a challenge of God's authority, but a pushing to understand Him more, to learn more of His nature and His love and care for me. He's delighted by our questioning, not at all like many church leaders who feel threatened by it.

There must have been a reason for God getting the Prophet involved. In finding the answer, we see a God who cares about us and see's our fears and our doubts and sends a Prophet to encourage us and confirm what we've believed God has told us. Or, we can just take it at face value and just see that randomly a Prophet showed up but he had no purpose from God in doing so.




Not one clue - the scripture doesn't address it. Again, cite the scriptures that support your statement. If there isn't any, that is ok - no harm, no foul - everyone is entitled to an opinion. Ours differs

I still love you and honor you.

Sure, you have a clue, you've just been fending them off like Wonder Woman does with her bracelets. "Ask", "Seek", "Knock", "Search" Those are all scriptural referencing to looking beyond our own understanding and finding the treasures from Him, hidden that we have not dug up yet.
 
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hislegacy

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Sure, you have a clue, you've just been fending them off like Wonder Woman does with her bracelets. "Ask", "Seek", "Knock", "Search" Those are all scriptural referencing to looking beyond our own understanding and finding the treasures from Him, hidden that we have not dug up yet.

That made me laugh.

Question: If you cannot find the 'treasures from God' within His Scriptures - where do you find them?

If you are then going to tell me that the Holy Spirit is the source, how do you know what you are hearing is the Holy Spirit, if it isnt in His word also
 
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topher694

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On this we completely disagree - reminder



I am more than willing, and have looked at the one scripture you have posted so far that you feel illustrates your position. I refuted your assertion and you have provided no other to support.

Instead of making judgements on my posting, why not just give examples in scripture? It's ok to have an opinion on the matter, but don't be so married to an opinion that you take offense over someone with a differing opinion.

So far I have been called unteachable, not reading slow enough or with the proper methodology, and now I am disregarding scripture.

What I have not seen is scripture to support a supposition. There is no emotion behind this, just coming from a point of view that requires proof other than thoughts of what something means.

This might very well be one of the reasons the Office of the Prophet is not as active nor effective as it is designed to be.

It is also an interesting side note that no one has asked me what I think might be the difference, or what I am talking about.
Of course you disagree, we wouldn't be having this discussion if you didn't. But your words and actions are not lining up.

The OT prophecies regarding Jesus are very "plain" to those of us who believe today. Yet they were not "plain" to religious leaders of his day. Not even close. So, they had their own definition of what the "plain" meaning of those scriptures - much like you with these scriptures - and missed what God was truly saying. I see a similar pattern when it comes to this conversation.

Why would I go into further scripture? Here's how it would go. This is always how it goes in these situations. Over, and over, and over, and over. I post several scriptures. You ignore my main point and how the scriptures relate to one another - don't even really try to see the connections - and instead nitpick small details. Then I respond refuting or explaining those small details only to have my explanations nitpicked. The cycle continues until the conversation looks nothing like how it started and I've wasted many hours of my time on nothing.

I teach this stuff. I train and commission 5-fold ministers, including prophets. I've got plenty of scriptures, but even Jesus knew to focus on those who had eyes to see and ears to hear.
 
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hislegacy

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I teach this stuff. I train and commission 5-fold ministers, including prophets. I've got plenty of scriptures, but even Jesus knew to focus on those who had eyes to see and ears to hear.

That is fantastic! Where do you teach? I have been teaching theology for a number of years and before Covid restrictions taught in Bible Schools in Europe, the Middle East and occasionally in Central America.

I absolutely love reading after PC Nelson and FF Bosworth. I'm working on my third book right now, the first two have done pretty well with an international school using my second as an auxiliary textbook.

Do you teach locally or do you travel?

Where has been your favorite place? Mine was in Alexandria Egypt. Such hungry students and nation changers.
 
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topher694

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That is fantastic! Where do you teach? I have been teaching theology for a number of years and before Covid restrictions taught in Bible Schools in Europe, the Middle East and occasionally in Central America.

I absolutely love reading after PC Nelson and FF Bosworth. I'm working on my third book right now, the first two have done pretty well with an international school using my second as an auxiliary textbook.

Do you teach locally or do you travel?

Where has been your favorite place? Mine was in Alexandria Egypt. Such hungry students and nation changers.
I Pastor a church locally & teach weekly classes. I've written books, study guides & curriculum. I've traveled and taught to a limited capacity, but those that taught me do extensively. My favorite overseas was probably a church in Lithuania. I am currently collaborating with my parent ministry to create and oversee an online ministry school that will include 5-fold ministers.
 
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hislegacy

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I Pastor a church locally & teach weekly classes. I've written books, study guides & curriculum. I've traveled and taught to a limited capacity, but those that taught me do extensively. My favorite overseas was probably a church in Lithuania. I am currently collaborating with my parent ministry to create and oversee an online ministry school that will include 5-fold ministers.

Awesome. I have not been in Lithuania, have been in both Tallin and Paida Estonia with a one day event in Tartu.

I’d love to send you my book on Paul’s Thorn.

I’ll be praying for your ministry. There is such a great need in the world.
 
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topher694

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Awesome. I have not been in Lithuania, have been in both Tallin and Paida Estonia with a one day event in Tartu.

I’d love to send you my book on Paul’s Thorn.

I’ll be praying for your ministry. There is such a great need in the world.
Likewise
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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That made me laugh.

Question: If you cannot find the 'treasures from God' within His Scriptures - where do you find them?

If you are then going to tell me that the Holy Spirit is the source, how do you know what you are hearing is the Holy Spirit, if it isnt in His word also

The treasures ARE found within His scriptures, that's what I've been saying. However, some people are so entrenched in what they already believe, they think that they already know all there is to know, and they stop searching for anything they may have missed, because, they know it all already.

The Holy Spirit says nothing that is not supported by scripture somewhere. Are we to ever think that we know scripture so well and we listen to the Holy Spirit so perfectly, and we spend so many hours reading that we think we already know it all. You did miss something though, Paul may not have been so gung ho (we do see a pretty gung ho personality at the beginning of Acts, so much so they had to send him off so that peace could return to the believers...it's there, ya just gotta be paying attention), and full of faith where he never got discouraged (we see some discouragement in some of his letters).

Asking the question, "Why did God send a prophet to Paul" is not an unreasonable question, and in fact is a clue that there must have been something within Paul, though we don't know exactly what, and that there is something that is NOT spelled out for us and possibly God saw that Paul needed a prophet. Yet, you reject that idea because Paul in his moment of being encouraged was spiritually strengthened to the point of being able to proclaim, "I am ready"? Maybe he wasn't discouraged but still, we must consider "why did God send him a prophet?" It was not just a haphazard sending by God. And just because God does not spell it out for us does not mean it's not there.

Would it hurt your ego too much to admit, at least to God that you don't know it all already, and ask God if you are missing something that He would reveal it to you. Don't expect it to happen immediately though, and don't expect that what He shows you is the rest of the story. There is always more.

Moses asked God to allow him to see His face and God worked out a means of meeting Moses' desire to see Him, even though it meant he could die. Surely we can ask Him, "why did you send a prophet to Paul?" And then start paying attention to all the clues He's tucked into the scriptures but we're missing because we think we already know it all.

Please don't misunderstand me and think that I think you're uniformed, I don't, you're very knowledgable, you just seem to have a wall up when it comes to looking at ALL the words. I should probably stop here. I'm not a scholar but I do love the word of God. Below is a picture that illistrates how I see God and His Word. There is always more underneath that what is seen peeking up out of the water.

iu

 
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hislegacy

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I could flip the script and ask you if your ego is so large you cannot admit there is no scripture supporting the assumption Paul was having doubts, but what would that add to the conversation?

Why this is so personal to you I do not know, so I will leave it here.

We have a difference of opinion. A really really minor difference. We can go on and repeat the same arguments, or we can move onto what a modern day prophet looks like.

That, I would be interested in hearing.

Gods best!
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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I could flip the script and ask you if your ego is so large you cannot admit there is no scripture supporting the assumption Paul was having doubts, but what would that add to the conversation?

Why this is so personal to you I do not know, so I will leave it here.

We have a difference of opinion. A really really minor difference. We can go on and repeat the same arguments, or we can move onto what a modern day prophet looks like.

That, I would be interested in hearing.

Gods best!

If it weren't in plain sight, in black and white, right there in our faces, I would be willing to admit that it's not there, however, I can plainly see that it is. The reason it's important is because you're teaching that something is not there that is in plain sight. My point is not as you keep wrongly assessing that Paul felt discouragement, but that God sent a prophet. Therefore, your statement that there is no examples of the prophetic in Acts is false. That should be a very big deal to anyone who is teaching the Word of God.

What is the point in moving on if you're going to ignore bits of scriptures because you've deemed them unimportant to make note of?
 
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hislegacy

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If it weren't in plain sight, in black and white, right there in our faces, I would be willing to admit that it's not there, however, I can plainly see that it is. The reason it's important is because you're teaching that something is not there that is in plain sight. My point is not as you keep wrongly assessing that Paul felt discouragement, but that God sent a prophet. Therefore, your statement that there is no examples of the prophetic in Acts is false. That should be a very big deal to anyone who is teaching the Word of God.

What is the point in moving on if you're going to ignore bits of scriptures because you've deemed them unimportant to make note of?

But it is NOT in plain site - the conjecture on the verses can go several directions.

Here is another viewpoint.

What if God didn’t send the prophet for Paul, but for the people whom he addressed with the prophesy.

It is just as easy to come to the conclusion that here was the prophet sharing, the people saying no don’t go, and Paul confirming the accuracy of the prophesy
 
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hislegacy

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The Church Was Built Upon The Foundation Of The Apostles And Prophets
The Bible says that the church is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Paul wrote.

Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20).

Here is where he missed it. Paul is not referring to two groups of ministers, Apostles and Prophets, but in fact referring to the Old and New Testament. The Old Testament throughout the Gospels is referred to as 'the prophets'.

Example

Matt 5:16 17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Matt 11:And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Mark 1:2 As it is written in the Prophets: “Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.​

Acts 7:42 Then God turned and gave them up to worship the host of heaven, as it is written in the book of the Prophets

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them,
 
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hislegacy

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1 Cor 14: How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
Here Paul is writing regarding church services - Observations:

Obviously there was more than one prophet in the church service "Let two or three speak"

Contextually, the "let the others judge" - question. are "the others" the other prophets or the other people there?

Second question: When was the last time you saw more than three prophets in a church service? They always appear to be separate from the local church
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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But it is NOT in plain site - the conjecture on the verses can go several directions.

Here is another viewpoint.

What if God didn’t send the prophet for Paul, but for the people whom he addressed with the prophesy.

It is just as easy to come to the conclusion that here was the prophet sharing, the people saying no don’t go, and Paul confirming the accuracy of the prophesy

In plain sight God still sent a prophet, showing that your claim that there are no examples of active prophets in the Book of Acts. There could be any number of reason why God sent the prophet, but the point is God sent one.

I'm not insisting that Paul was doubtful, I'm insisting that God sent a prophet, which is clearly written in plain sight...unless of course you have one of those Bible where the translators erase scriptures they don't like. I'm assuming you have a complete Bible and that you do see a verse where a prophet shows up.
 
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hislegacy

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In plain sight God still sent a prophet, showing that your claim that there are no examples of active prophets in the Book of Acts. There could be any number of reason why God sent the prophet, but the point is God sent one.


I never said there are no examples of active prophets in the book of acts. I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but I never have, and never will say such a thing. Perhaps you need to sit back, take a deep breath and realize I am not attacking you.

I'm not insisting that Paul was doubtful, I'm insisting that God sent a prophet, which is clearly written in plain sight...unless of course you have one of those Bible where the translators erase scriptures they don't like. I'm assuming you have a complete Bible and that you do see a verse where a prophet shows up.

You will note:

It is just as easy to come to the conclusion that here was the prophet sharing, the people saying no don’t go, and Paul confirming the accuracy of the prophesy

I didn't say he did not come -

I forgive you, but clearly, you are not speaking anything that I have written. I did not say God didn't send a prophet - no where - did not say it in any way shape or form. Please stop.

I will not be replying to you again.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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I never said there are no examples of active prophets in the book of acts. I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but I never have, and never will say such a thing. Perhaps you need to sit back, take a deep breath and realize I am not attacking you.



You will note:



I didn't say he did not come -

I forgive you, but clearly, you are not speaking anything that I have written. I did not say God didn't send a prophet - no where - did not say it in any way shape or form. Please stop.

I will not be replying to you again.

Did I misunderstand the OP? Two paragraphs up from the bottom. I quote,

"Case in point, there is not one instance of a person being led by a prophet in the N T.
My apologies.

 
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atpollard

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Second question: When was the last time you saw more than three prophets in a church service?
St John’s Catholic Charismatic Fellowship (1980).

They always appear to be separate from the local church
Personal Observation [small sample size - use with caution]: Those that claim to be prophets, but use their “gift” to draw attention and accolades to themselves are neither part of the Church nor do their so-called “prophecies” stand up to the light of either Biblical or honest scrutiny. A Pentecostal Minister once told his congregation “God will share His glory with no man” as part of a message to be very careful if people attempt to offer you praise and quickly point them to God, who is alone worthy of praise (not bad for a man that has sung professionally for five US Presidents and various heads of state).
 
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hislegacy

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St John’s Catholic Charismatic Fellowship (1980).


Personal Observation [small sample size - use with caution]: Those that claim to be prophets, but use their “gift” to draw attention and accolades to themselves are neither part of the Church nor do their so-called “prophecies” stand up to the light of either Biblical or honest scrutiny. A Pentecostal Minister once told his congregation “God will share His glory with no man” as part of a message to be very careful if people attempt to offer you praise and quickly point them to God, who is alone worthy of praise (not bad for a man that has sung professionally for five US Presidents and various heads of state).

I agree, the gift makes room for itself. If you need a title for people to know what you are. You probably are not.
 
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