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What does the book of Revelation “reveal” ?

keras

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Here is the conflict in your interpretation:
1Thessalonians 5:1-3 - Day of the Lord begins - Jews in the land
2Thessalonians2:4 - Day of the Lord begins - Christians in the land
The 1 Thess 5:1-2, prophesy is our situation today. It tells us that destruction of the enemies; the attackers of Israel, as per Psalms 83, will be suddenly destroyed. That destruction from the Lord, will also remove all the apostate, etc: Jews as well, Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:1-18

2 Thess 3:1-4 refers to the Return of Jesus and what must happen before that glorious Day. When the adversary sits in God's Temple in Jerusalem, he will have just conquered the holy people, the Christian nation of Beulah. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-8
It will be 1260 days later that the Return takes place.
 
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Douggg

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Your scenario has God defending the Jews in Israel from the Psalms 83 attackers - only to decimate them (the Jews) in His fiery wrath of a solar event, depopulating the land of Israel. That makes no sense, keras.
 
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Douggg

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typo, 2Thess2:1-4.

keras, in your scenario, you have Christians from around the world move to the land of Israel (depopulated of the Jews in a solar event). Why would any Christian, with their family, move to Israel - knowing that worst time in history will take place there?

Why would any Christian, now, apart from your scenario, want to move to Israel, for the same reason knowing that the worst time in history will take place there?

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Jews (Judaism) on the other hand, don't believe what is in the Christian bible regarding the Antichrist and great tribulation. They are looking forward to the messianic age of peace and safety.
 
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timothyu

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It reveals what Jesus taught with HIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM, that man would no longer control fellow man as God would resume governance over man, and our 'dust' universe of which humans also are, would be replaced by something new.
 
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grafted branch

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Well I don’t think Revelation 6:9-11 is referring to all martyrs through out all of history. I think it’s referring to those who were killed by their own brethren, as seen in Matthew 10:21-23.


21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

I think this is what “should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled” is referring to.
 
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Douggg

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@claninja

Since you, like most Christians, are not aware of what Jews believe, I will inform you what their belief known to them as "the final redemption" is about.

"the final redemption" is the return of all of the whole house of Israel back to the land of Israel.

The fulfillment (sometime in the near future) is found in Ezekiel 39:28, 7 years after Gog/Magog, and immediately following Armageddon. Jesus, Himself, speaking in this text...

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

"the final redemption'' is also found as Matthew 24:31...

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The wording in Matthew 24:31 is taken from a promise God made to the house of Israel in Deuteronomy 30:1-6, about regathering them.

1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
 
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keras

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Your scenario has God defending the Jews in Israel from the Psalms 83 attackers - only to decimate them (the Jews) in His fiery wrath of a solar event, depopulating the land of Israel. That makes no sense, keras.
As God says thru Zephaniah 3:8-10 ....I will gather nations, assemble kingdoms in order to pour My wrath upon them. The whole earth will be affected by the fire of My anger.
THEN I shall give a new language to My faithful people, so they can call on the Lord and serve Him with one accord.
My worshippers, dispersed beyond the River of Ethiopia, will bring offerings to Me.


The River of AEthiopia, is the ancient name for the Atlantic Ocean.
Verse 10 refers to Americans who will come to the holy Land, as Isaiah 18:7 prophesies.
Because we do not go there until God has cleared and cleansed all of the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43
Many prophesies say who the Lord's faithful Chirstian people will travel to and live in a regenerated Land, in peace and prosperity. Isaiah 35:1-10
 
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Douggg

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But keras, you have the Gog/Magog event and the 7 years following - happening to Beulah, the nation created by Christians - right ? Why would any Christian want to move there - knowing all the events of the 7 years ahead of time?
 
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keras

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But keras, you have the Gog/Magog event and the 7 years following - happening to Beulah, the nation created by Christians - right ? Why would any Christian want to move there - knowing all the events of the 7 years ahead of time?
I have to think you simply don't read what the Bible actually says. You're not dumb, Can you not see how the Lord promises protection, peace and prosperity to His faithful peoples?

He will protect those who call upon Him, during His terrible day of fiery wrath.
He will bless us with great prosperity.
He will give us peace, as He destroys that vast army led by Gog.
But our leaders will make a fatal mistake by agreeing to a 7 year peace treaty with the leader of the rest of the world. Isaiah 28:14-15
That leader will break the treaty and conquer Beulah, Daniel 9:27
Those who refused to agree to that treaty, Daniel 11:32, will be taken to the place of safety for the final 1260 days; Revelation 12:14

Then Jesus will Return, destroy all the ungodly peoples, gather those faithful people, those who remain, 1 Thess 4:16-17, and commence His Millennium reign
 
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Douggg

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Those who refused to agree to that treaty, Daniel 11:32, will be taken to the place of safety for the final 1260 days; Revelation 12:14
Daniel 11:32 is historic, not end times.

Revelation 12:4 are them in Judea who heed Jesus's words to flee into the mountains when they see the AoD standing in the holy place - i.e. temple mount.

Why would any Christian want to move to the land of Israel, knowing that unmatched times of trouble will be centered there? I am saying your scenario does not make sense.
 
keras
I have posted plenty of Prophesies about how the Christian peoples will occupy all of the holy Land.
You are simply unable to understand them.

When did any of Daniel 11:21-45 take place? It is all end times Prophecy and it fits with Revelation.
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Douggg
Daniel 11:36-45 is end times. The transition to the end times is v35.

If Gog/Magog takes place against the current Israel over there - then that negates your entire end times scenario, right?
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timothyu

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Consider that Israel is not a place but an ideal, the true followers are not genetic but trust in God as Abraham once did. Duality, just as we see in Christianity. Besides the jews lived in Judah. not Israel to the north. They just took the name for their own this time around, laying claim to the family name even though they are only 1/12th of the family House of Israel
 
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claninja

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Your original argument that revelation has hundreds of different interpretations due to Christians not universally understanding what Judaism believes about the messiah is noted and has been shown to be incorrect. There is no need for you to shift your argument to something else nor belittle me not going along with said shifted argument
 
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claninja

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But it wasn't, so the 'soon; refers to God's timing.

God can, and has, told his people when things are near or for the distant future, So I don’t find this argument convincing.

It was being “revealed” or “uncovered” to John that the events of revelation were to quickly take place for the time was near.

If they weren’t actually near, as your seem to argue, it seems John should have been told to seal them up, like Daniel.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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What I think Jesus is conveying by that statement is the things already written about in OT and NT prophecy that are about to come to pass verses the things that are not about to come to pass. Prophecy is supposed to be practical in some form or another. Bascially they were being told the prophecy about the end of the second covenant age was about to all be fullfilled but the prophecy about the end of the age of the four gentile empires followed by an age of promise of a free world is not.
 
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Douggg

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I ask you a question if you knew what the final redemption was in Jewish belief to further the discussion into something beneficial, but you would not respond whether you knew or not. It takes two to have a conversation.
 
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keras

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The different revealing times, was due to the First Advent of Jesus.
Daniel lived circa 500 BC, so the Prophesies were sealed.
After the Ministry of Jesus, we received His and the Apostles Prophesies, They and all the OT Prophesies are available to all now, as Written in our Bibles.
However, this does not mean the everyone will be able to understand them. In fact, Daniel 12:4 & 10b, say that only a few people will understand.
(Staff Edit 12/15/2022)
 
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oikonomia

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Revelation reveals Jesus Christ is the mingling of God and man. (Rev. 1:17,18)
Revelation reveals God's purpose to build and expand the mingling of God and man into a city New Jerusalem.
And all of history is for and moving toward this climax of the fulfillment of God's purpose to unite God and man.

Revelation reveals among other things, there should be one church in one city. It shows that in the eyes of God
the only thing which seperates one church on earth from another church on earth is geography.
Denominations, Non-denominations, National churches, churches according to countries, racial churches, ethnic churches, churches according to regions, churches according to certain servants of God (no matter how spiritual or useful), churches named for methods of baptism or spiritual gifts, churches according to certian doctrinal understandings (no matter how correct), churches by streets, or anything larger OR smaller than a locality - including homes, or a World Wide Public Church, or a Public Church named for the most important city in the world, are man-made inventions and are abnormal (though genuine saved Christians meet within such entities).

God ordained one church to match one locality whether we like it or not, whether we think it is practical or not.

I was in spirit on the Lord's Day and heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, Saying, What you see write in a scroll and send it to the seven churches:
to Ephesus
and to Smyrna
and to Pergamos
and to Thytira
and to Sardis
and to Philadelphia
and to Laodicea.


And I turned to see the voice that spoke with me; and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, And in the midst of the lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girded about at the breasts with a golden girdle." (Rev. 10 -13).
 
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claninja

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I ask you a question if you knew what the final redemption was in Jewish belief to further the discussion into something beneficial, but you would not respond whether you knew or not. It takes two to have a conversation.
Again, your argument was that revelation has hundreds of different interpretations interpretations because Christians universally don’t understand Judaisms belief of the messiah. No need to shift to anything else not related to the OP. If your would like to discuss the “final redemption”
That Judaism believes in, start your own thread.
 
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claninja

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A lot of what you said the book revelation reveals or uncovers is already taught by Paul in his epistles. So I don’t think that’s necessarily what revelation is “revealing” or “uncovering”.
 
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claninja

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Since revelation is mostly symbolic/apocalyptic visions, how is that a “revealing” or “uncovering”?
 
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